A matter of tones.

[Mick in Dubbo]

Hi all.
I've been looking into the F series of detectors and have a couple of questions, if some could answer them for me?
I've been watching a number of video clips on all of the F series and been listening to their audio systems. I've noticed that the F2 and F4 have the same tones system, while the F5 and F70 seem to have their own different tone systems. It seems that the F70 may well have the greatest tone variations of them all.
My question is; on any of these detectors, are you able to tell when you are over a coin as oppossed to say a can/canslaw, pull tab, screw cap eta just by the tone alone? I know the visual information is good, but I'm interested to know how much info you can get out of the audio. Is the pinpoint feature useful at sorting out targets; and if so how?
I am also interested in knowing about the F70 6.5in coil. Is it a concentric or a DD coil?
Thanks.
Mick Evans.

 

[backacheUK]

Well with the F4 I normally detect with just iron discrimed out & pay more attention to the numbers & repeatable tones, The 4 monotoned tones of the F4 are divided across its full range of discrimination although im not sure if equally spread? But on junky sites or where im searching for just

 

[backacheUK]

To answer your question Without looking at the detector the only tone of the F4 I would totally ignore would be the lowest. All the other tones as well with the ID numbers need to be learned & Remembered. Even then the best of us get it wrong. So to answer you, the answer is YES,,,,,,BUT it also could be something else.... For me the magic number is 61 on the 3rd tone 90%

 

[Mick in Dubbo]

Thanks for your thoughts backacheUK.
It looks like you are hunting for similar targets to what we do in in Australia. Our $1 and $2 coins hit almost exactly where your one pound coins do.In fact our $2 shows up as a bounce of 60 to 62 from what I've read from Alimo88. All our modern coins are below 64 on Fisher machines. It sounds like the numbers may well do a lot of the hard yards if they are precise, which would be most of the time on the shallow stuff if there is nothing around them and they are fairly flat to the coil.
I was wondering if folks noticed subties to the tones that you don't hear at first that helps to figure things out? Do you hear a fuller, rounder tone or flatter sounds or even differences in the width of the tones or strength of it eta? I apologise for not being clear. The written word can be imprecise sometimes.
Mick Evans.

 

[Alimo88]

@ mick I tweeked the F2 and now get 61 or 62 (very often 62) for the two dollar and 64 or 65 (very often 65). There is no 63 so thats the "buffer' between ones and twos. There is no 66 so that's the buffer above one dollar coins. There is no 60 so that is the buffer below two dollar coins. I was tired of two dollars "jumping over 60, and hitting 59 or 61.. The tone change is 66 so if i hear the highest tone it could be LARGE, a 1or 2 cent peice or a silver ring amongst other things. PS the ACE 250 can't provide THIS information hahahhahahahhahahahahhhahahah suckers
Sometimes the sounds are a bit different but I have yet definitively be able to understand them.

 

[backacheUK]

NP Mick, Well ive noticed I get a quick double tone on surface or very shallow targets & on the extreme of detection depth the tone sounds thinner & softer,but only on the extreme as the tones seem pretty much uniform until then. As far as number accuracy when targets are close to junk, this is where the F4 shines, as many times I dig a rusty nail or piece of iron thinking beforehand its a good target only to recheck the hole afterwards & find the target it was telling me was there, Plus target separation is superfast n even quicker with the 4" coil

 

[Mick in Dubbo]

It looks like you need to be dependent on the screen. I thought that there may have been some hints in the tones that you don't hear at first. It has a significant advantage over the Ace in it's visual information The Ace puts $1 and $2 coins in notch 8, which is it's first notch that bell tones. The trick with the Ace is to learn how to get the info out of it's pinpoint.
Thanks for taking the time to pass on your knowledge.
Mick Evans.

 

[Alimo88]

tone changes are at 15, 45/46, and 66 which gives 4 tone zones
the Whites V3 allows you to assign a given tone to a given number. and also a given symbol. Now that is cool
I would love to be able to program in a tone (or WAV file) to given numbers, or personal zones. imagine if you were over a 1 dollar and it just said "one" instead of Buzzzz
or a two dollar coin could go "Ching" hahhahahhah
my old camera has WAV files for different shutter sounds.
Mick do you have the ace?

 

[Mick in Dubbo]

Yeah, still got it. I haven't used it much since Christmas as it's paid for itself. I've got a few others that I'm trying to get to that point.
On the point of different tones, I've noticed that the F 70 has it when you put it in Delta pitch. (I think that I remembered that right.) It gives a tone for each number.
I really like the way the F70 gives you the modulated tones. You can tell instantly how deep a target is. Much faster than on most other machines. Audio systems always seem to be more accurate than visual systems. (Been looking at the F series on utube over the last couple of days to try and get a better understanding of them. It'd be nice to be able to check them out first hand, but they are not common here in Oz yet. No shops to go and check them out in either. I don't think that there is a single shop in the whole country that sells them.
Mick Evans.

 

[Mike Hillis]

Good question Mick

I'll just speak to the F5, which also carries over to the Omega as they have the same tones.

Iron grunt is the iron grunt. No tonal variations that will help you pick out a good iron target from a bad iron target.

Single VCO or the Dual tone VCO audio is very helpful next to large iron or saturated targets like reinforced concrete. The large iron will produce a large drawn out tone but good targets will give you a quick zip. Very handy and has resulted in good finds. I'll put this in a different post.

The other non-ferrous tones are digital. Nothing like the Xterra toy organ tones but still digital non-the-less. The F5 is pleasant to the ears and the engineers have tried to give it some tonal qualities but they are real subtle and harder to learn. I think your sub-concience picks up on the differences as you use it more. It is nothing like the analog units that actually speak to you in the audio, like for instance, the way a Golden Sabre II talks to you about foil range targets. The GSII will have a buzz sound to the audio for thin foil and a more solid sound to the audio for targets that have mass to them, and a special sweet mixed tone for the good stuff that is like an electric shock when you hear it. (talking myself into another one as I write this )

But the F5 has something there, its just not as pronouced and you just have to soak in it for awhile to pick it up. Does that make sense? You don't get it with the DD coil, only the stock concentric. I get into the tones and often forget to look at the id numbers. I hear the iron blaat and ignore it. High tone is stop and recover. Nickel tone is stop and recover. Nickle to mid tone bounce is recovered only if its a foil to nickle bounce. The mid tone range is the one that I spend the most time listening to because it covers the largest spread of numbers. In the foil range I think I can pick up mass in the audio. In the other ranges of the mid tone I let the id number tell me what to do as most of that target range has mass.

The single tone/dual tone VCO is probable the most descriptive tone for sizing. I use 4 tone and 2 tone the most. I like them the best.

My try at answering your question.
Mike