ok fellows, do me a favor and think tejon for a second,,,as you know with the tejon, when you get a real deep target, the response is almost too quiet but is still very sharp, you know when you pull the trigger in the vco is gonna sound off in low tone,,,,you know those kinda targets that get your heart beating. now heres my question,,,,,but first let me give you an example,,,,,i was digging the other day here in north mississippi with the xterra 705,,,i got a real good solid response,,,i hit the pinpoint and it showed arrows all the way,,,and i start digging,,,and i keep digging and keep digging and finally in the bottom of the hole is a brass buckle. im 6' 3,,,i think my arms are a little longer than the average guy,,,i was up to my arm pit in this hole. since ive had this machine ive dug some deep stuff,,,,but ive been fooled by the deep stuff,,,because of the audio response,,,,,a bullet at 4 inches sounds just like a bullet at 15 inches,,,,since ive had this machine ive been looking for the "whisper" responses but have only had the solid beeps on the deep stuff,,,,i havent missed with the ground balance, its always been in the auto mode,,,again i dont know if that has anything to do with it...but heres my question,,,sould i be looking for the those whispers or just look at the dept finder to give me an idea of depth. and while im at it, let me ask one more question.....in the automatic ground balance, i tried something,,,the first time i went thru the ground balance procedure i kept the coil at about 4 or 5 inches above the ground and then started pumping it up and down and got a reading of like 34,,,,,i turned the machine off, went thru the start up procedure again, this time i had the coil on the ground when the automatic ground balance procedure began and after pumping it up and down, i got a gb reading of 28. which way is the proper way to do it or how do you do it,,,,,the area was clear of junk,,,so i repeated this a couple of more times and got the same readings,,,,,so this is telling me the machine is looking at two different things,,,,could i be wrong about this? i think this beast is gonna catch on with the relic crowd,,,i like it,,,had my doubts,,,,i loved that tejon,,,,but after using this 705 i think i made a pretty good buy,,,,,the only gripe,,,that 10 inch double d will wear you out
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A question for Digger or MoRelic
- Thread starter usmc0351
- Start date
OK... Question #1 If you are looking for a modulated signal, "whisper" responses, I have not noticed this. I look at the arrows. I like it when there are full arrows and the ID bounces, ya got a deep goodie then!!!
Question #2 I'll let Randy chime in on this, as I have always.....turn my detector on, auto noise cancel, then turn the tracking on and go. I have hit the GB button while in tracking just to see what ##'s are there to compare sites.
If the 10.5 coil seems heavy to you, experiment with adding some weight under the armcuff or go with a straight shaft lik I have done. I can swing it all day and it works great for me...............
Question #2 I'll let Randy chime in on this, as I have always.....turn my detector on, auto noise cancel, then turn the tracking on and go. I have hit the GB button while in tracking just to see what ##'s are there to compare sites.
If the 10.5 coil seems heavy to you, experiment with adding some weight under the armcuff or go with a straight shaft lik I have done. I can swing it all day and it works great for me...............
I think of a whisper target as being a solid tone with very low volume. And several people have referenced a "whisper signal" on the X-Terras. I don't argue with anyone as my hearing may not be as good as theirs. But as I've said on several occassions, I've never heard a whisper signal on the X-30, X-50, X-70, or the 505. Like you, I find the same sized targets, even at different depths, will sound the same. On the 705, I do hear a little different tone with those super deep targets that are just on the brink of being too deep to detect. It isn't what I think of as a typical whisper tone because the tone of the audio signal seems to depend on the direction of the sweep. By the tone of the audio signal, I don't mean the pitch or the volume. But more of a "solid sound". Again, this is only on SUPER Deep targets with the 705. To my ears, the other X-Terras are either beep or no-beep. With the 705, I have found that those REAL deep targets may not give that consistent audio from every direction. But it will give the signal enough times (consistency) that I am encouraged to dig. In making "head to head" comparisons with my other X-Terras, none of them would even make a beep on these same SUPER deep targets. So it seems to me that if a target is at the brink of being too deep for the 705 to detect, yet still gives enough of an audio to get your attention, it is worth investigating. But I am also convinced these "on the brink of being too deep" targets won't usually get any fringe signal (audio or visual) from the other X-Terras. Seems to me they either beep solid or they don't beep at all. I've communicated with Minelab on several occasions, concerning this matter. I have asked if this is due to the software differences between what they refer to as "Standard" on the 305, "Enhanced" on the 505 and "Maximized" on the 705. And although I've been told I was "very observant"
, no one has told me if these software differences are the reason behind the "whisper" signal on the 705 when I get nothing on other models. 
As to depth, I never look at the depth indicator. The software has based that reading on coin sized targets. The targets I dig aren't always "coin sized" targets. So instead of the depth indicator, I use Sizing Pinpoint and start digging. I know sooner or later, regardless of the depth, if I've done my pinpointing properly, I'll find it right in the middle of the hole.
The ground balance of the X-Terra is capable of adjusting for both magnetic and conductive mineralization. So you are correct in your statement that it is "looking at two different things". If I understand your example correctly, where you got two different readings based on the distance the coil was from the ground, that makes sense. The reason for the two different readings is because the Auto mode is constantly making super fast adjustments as the coil moves. When you adjust the ground phase manually, you control how fast those adjustments are being made. And in this case, it would depend if you were pressing that button on the upsweep or the downsweep. In other words, whether you were raising the setting or lowering it, combined with where the coil was in relationship to the surface, when you press the pad. Personally, I prefer setting the GB in the Auto Mode, then "fine tuning" it manually. If you've read back through some earlier posts, I like to run my X-Terra with a positive ground balance. Contrary to what the logic side of our brains might think, this means I need to lower the ground phase setting by however much I want to offset the GB. In my part of the Country, I like to run with a positive offset of 3 or 4 clicks. I've convinced myself that doing this "fools" the X-Terra into thinking the ground is hotter than it really is. As such, I think it gives me an edge on hearing those super deep targets. As an example, let's say the proper GB setting for the site you are hunting is 34. If the mineralization was pretty consistent at that site, I'd lower that setting down to 31 and lock it in. Having field tested the first series of X-Terras, I was excited when the 705 came out with Tracking GB Offset.
This allows me to maintain that positive setting, in a tracking mode. So if the mineralization at that site varies from sweep to sweep, I'd encourage you to try the Tracking GB Offset, and set it with a positive ground balance of 3 or 4. Remember, that means lowering the Ground Phase setting.
I noticed you mentioned the weight (balance) of that large DD coil. I agree, it is a bit nose-heavy for those long days in the field. There are some bungee type contraptions that will help bear the weight of the coil. And you could always mount the coil backward or put some sort of weight in the upper end of the rod, behind the armrest, to offest the coil and provide better balance. But in your case, there is something else I would mention. Depending on which coil you were using when you got those ground phase readings you mentioned, you may or not find this to be the case in your soil. But, any time I've been able to ground balance a 9-inch concentric coil with a ground phase setting of 28 or higher, I find I get better depth with it than if I put on the large DD. If the ground phase setting is lower than 28, I get more depth out of the DD. Keep in mind that the design characteristics of a DD coil helps to neutralize the effects of mineralization. So there is likely a group of ground phase settings (probably somewhere between 24 and 28 ) where the depth of the concentric 9-inch and the larger DD coil will be the same. If you add in the fact that a lower frequency coil will find larger targets at deeper depths than a higher frequency coil of the same size, you might find that the 9-inch concentric at 3 kHz will hunt every bit as deep in your soil as the 10.5 inch DD at 7.5 kHz. I am convinced it will in my soil.
In summary, here is how I set up at a site...... turn on the detector and put it in the all metal mode. Turn up the volume full bore. Turn the Sensitivity to max. Holding the coil in a "flat" position (as when it is being swept) I hold the coil steady at waist height and set Noise Cancel automatically. Set the threshold so it is just barely audible. I then sweep over the ground to make sure there aren't any targets in the area I am going to use to set the GB. I recommend to some that they lower the Sensitivity when setting the GB. But if you can tell the differences it the audio tones, having the Sensitivity set to the max lets me know if the mineralization is likely to change at this site, based on the chatter from the detector as I sweep. If it chatters a lot, that means the mineralization likely varies a lot and I will probably use tracking. But not just plain tracking. I like I set the Tracking GB Offset with a -3. Remember that the GB number on the display in Tracking mode is the "composite" setting. In other words, the number displayed in Tracking takes into effect the -3 that I have put in the offset. If the actual GB setting was going to be a 34, then my -3 will make it show up as a 31. Since I am now going to use the Tracking GB Offset, I don't need to GB my detector. It will do it all by itself, and maintain my positive GB offset. If the soil doesn't seem to vary in mineralizatoin, I probably won't use tracking. But I will still offset the GB to a few settings positive. If that is the case, I will proceed to ground balance my 705 like this....... turn back the sensitivity to the lower 20's. Then I lower the coil to about 4 or 5 inches off of the ground. Press the GB pad and listen for the tone when the coil is held still. I then press the Mode to activate Auto GB. I raise and lower the coil as the X-Terra goes through it's GB setting adjustment. Once the setting has been achieved, I lower the GB number by 3, making it a positive GB setting of 3 from what it said it should have been. (I can do the whole GB setup manually in about the same amount of time it takes the Auto mode to do it, so either is fine) After the gb and offset are ready, I lock that in and raise the Sensitivity back up to around 28. If I get a lot of falsing, I lower the sensitivity a couple clicks at a time, until it is running on the brink of being "too hot" to handle. I won't say this is the perfect setup, but it is how I set mine up for the places I hunt. HH Randy
, no one has told me if these software differences are the reason behind the "whisper" signal on the 705 when I get nothing on other models. As to depth, I never look at the depth indicator. The software has based that reading on coin sized targets. The targets I dig aren't always "coin sized" targets. So instead of the depth indicator, I use Sizing Pinpoint and start digging. I know sooner or later, regardless of the depth, if I've done my pinpointing properly, I'll find it right in the middle of the hole.
The ground balance of the X-Terra is capable of adjusting for both magnetic and conductive mineralization. So you are correct in your statement that it is "looking at two different things". If I understand your example correctly, where you got two different readings based on the distance the coil was from the ground, that makes sense. The reason for the two different readings is because the Auto mode is constantly making super fast adjustments as the coil moves. When you adjust the ground phase manually, you control how fast those adjustments are being made. And in this case, it would depend if you were pressing that button on the upsweep or the downsweep. In other words, whether you were raising the setting or lowering it, combined with where the coil was in relationship to the surface, when you press the pad. Personally, I prefer setting the GB in the Auto Mode, then "fine tuning" it manually. If you've read back through some earlier posts, I like to run my X-Terra with a positive ground balance. Contrary to what the logic side of our brains might think, this means I need to lower the ground phase setting by however much I want to offset the GB. In my part of the Country, I like to run with a positive offset of 3 or 4 clicks. I've convinced myself that doing this "fools" the X-Terra into thinking the ground is hotter than it really is. As such, I think it gives me an edge on hearing those super deep targets. As an example, let's say the proper GB setting for the site you are hunting is 34. If the mineralization was pretty consistent at that site, I'd lower that setting down to 31 and lock it in. Having field tested the first series of X-Terras, I was excited when the 705 came out with Tracking GB Offset.
This allows me to maintain that positive setting, in a tracking mode. So if the mineralization at that site varies from sweep to sweep, I'd encourage you to try the Tracking GB Offset, and set it with a positive ground balance of 3 or 4. Remember, that means lowering the Ground Phase setting. I noticed you mentioned the weight (balance) of that large DD coil. I agree, it is a bit nose-heavy for those long days in the field. There are some bungee type contraptions that will help bear the weight of the coil. And you could always mount the coil backward or put some sort of weight in the upper end of the rod, behind the armrest, to offest the coil and provide better balance. But in your case, there is something else I would mention. Depending on which coil you were using when you got those ground phase readings you mentioned, you may or not find this to be the case in your soil. But, any time I've been able to ground balance a 9-inch concentric coil with a ground phase setting of 28 or higher, I find I get better depth with it than if I put on the large DD. If the ground phase setting is lower than 28, I get more depth out of the DD. Keep in mind that the design characteristics of a DD coil helps to neutralize the effects of mineralization. So there is likely a group of ground phase settings (probably somewhere between 24 and 28 ) where the depth of the concentric 9-inch and the larger DD coil will be the same. If you add in the fact that a lower frequency coil will find larger targets at deeper depths than a higher frequency coil of the same size, you might find that the 9-inch concentric at 3 kHz will hunt every bit as deep in your soil as the 10.5 inch DD at 7.5 kHz. I am convinced it will in my soil.
In summary, here is how I set up at a site...... turn on the detector and put it in the all metal mode. Turn up the volume full bore. Turn the Sensitivity to max. Holding the coil in a "flat" position (as when it is being swept) I hold the coil steady at waist height and set Noise Cancel automatically. Set the threshold so it is just barely audible. I then sweep over the ground to make sure there aren't any targets in the area I am going to use to set the GB. I recommend to some that they lower the Sensitivity when setting the GB. But if you can tell the differences it the audio tones, having the Sensitivity set to the max lets me know if the mineralization is likely to change at this site, based on the chatter from the detector as I sweep. If it chatters a lot, that means the mineralization likely varies a lot and I will probably use tracking. But not just plain tracking. I like I set the Tracking GB Offset with a -3. Remember that the GB number on the display in Tracking mode is the "composite" setting. In other words, the number displayed in Tracking takes into effect the -3 that I have put in the offset. If the actual GB setting was going to be a 34, then my -3 will make it show up as a 31. Since I am now going to use the Tracking GB Offset, I don't need to GB my detector. It will do it all by itself, and maintain my positive GB offset. If the soil doesn't seem to vary in mineralizatoin, I probably won't use tracking. But I will still offset the GB to a few settings positive. If that is the case, I will proceed to ground balance my 705 like this....... turn back the sensitivity to the lower 20's. Then I lower the coil to about 4 or 5 inches off of the ground. Press the GB pad and listen for the tone when the coil is held still. I then press the Mode to activate Auto GB. I raise and lower the coil as the X-Terra goes through it's GB setting adjustment. Once the setting has been achieved, I lower the GB number by 3, making it a positive GB setting of 3 from what it said it should have been. (I can do the whole GB setup manually in about the same amount of time it takes the Auto mode to do it, so either is fine) After the gb and offset are ready, I lock that in and raise the Sensitivity back up to around 28. If I get a lot of falsing, I lower the sensitivity a couple clicks at a time, until it is running on the brink of being "too hot" to handle. I won't say this is the perfect setup, but it is how I set mine up for the places I hunt. HH Randy
Carolina Phil
New member
n/t
randy that info is great, i just made a copy of it and will use your advice tomorrow,,,,,again totally surprise today,,,,, a solid 38,,,arrows all the way down, and i start digging and digging and digging,,,and in the bottom of the hole a nice gardner,,,,ive dug thousands of bullets but ive never dug one this deep,,,,,,i know this north mississippi sand hills has something to do with it, but today was unreal,,,,i got to hand it to you again randy,,,that first night i talked to you one the phone,,,,you sold me on this idea,,,,,im more than happy with this machine,,,,,
Doug, I still trust my Tejon for relic hunting over the X-terra 705.
I haven't had a chance to get out but one time with the 705 due to this horrible weather we are having.
Next time out we can do a "head to head" comparison.
I am sure the 705 is a great detector and I just need the chance to get out and use it, and learn it. Both detectors will have their proper place in my arsenal. In fact I really want to use the 705 in some of my Rolla spots to get in there and find some stuff in the real trashy areas where the Tejon goes nuts.
I did print out the instructions for properly setting up the detector posted by Digger and believe me, I am grateful that he took the time to write such a good response and help us in the proper setup.
Like I said, have owned the detector for two months and maybe had five chances to get out in that time due to this cold snowy weather.
I haven't had a chance to get out but one time with the 705 due to this horrible weather we are having.
Next time out we can do a "head to head" comparison.
I am sure the 705 is a great detector and I just need the chance to get out and use it, and learn it. Both detectors will have their proper place in my arsenal. In fact I really want to use the 705 in some of my Rolla spots to get in there and find some stuff in the real trashy areas where the Tejon goes nuts.
I did print out the instructions for properly setting up the detector posted by Digger and believe me, I am grateful that he took the time to write such a good response and help us in the proper setup.
Like I said, have owned the detector for two months and maybe had five chances to get out in that time due to this cold snowy weather.