Ok, I had a bad first day, the second was much better as I quieted the machine down some and in the 20 minutes before it started raining dug 2 brass fittings at 8-10 inches. I had some of my own settings in there but not alot. Now my question is for you IM-16 guys. Will this machine pick up a coin next to iron or will it null it out? Is that why you guys hunt with the IM-16 because you could hear the iron then the flutie sound of a coin right next to it? Today made a big difference for me and I at least got the machine quiet and humming along and did find 2 pieces of junk. It was the only 2 targets I picked up before it poured. I had no trouble pinpointing, however I used the tip of the coil and didnt even use pinpoint. As soon as I picked up the sound I figured that is where the target was, am I wrong in this thinking? I know with garretts DD coil I used the tip and never had a problem. Thats it for now, I am thinking about a run to the beach sometime next week to give the machine a good workout. I think the beach might be a better spot so at least I can hear different tones and stuff. However if I dont get there, I will be bumbling along and see what we can come up with. Thanks for all your help. Good Luck Hunting!! Rich
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A question for the experienced
- Thread starter richg
- Start date
I hunt mostly in Audio 2 (at the beach); sometimes in Audio 1 (digging dirt) but never normal. It's just something I started doing and I'm very used to it.
In IM-16 there is no null, since you're not discriminating. So, I was wondering what happens when you hit iron in Audio 1 or 2. Is there more masking since the tone is so "big"? Is there more of a chance to miss a target near iron in those modes than in normal?
I'm still not clear on exactly what Audio 1 or 2 does to a signal (other than it obviously filtering or smoothing out the tone and locking in on a target). Does it do anything to the digital readout like "averaging" out co-located targets or does it just affect the tone?
In IM-16 there is no null, since you're not discriminating. So, I was wondering what happens when you hit iron in Audio 1 or 2. Is there more masking since the tone is so "big"? Is there more of a chance to miss a target near iron in those modes than in normal?
I'm still not clear on exactly what Audio 1 or 2 does to a signal (other than it obviously filtering or smoothing out the tone and locking in on a target). Does it do anything to the digital readout like "averaging" out co-located targets or does it just affect the tone?
HanoverHoleDigger
New member
see the manual
Joe, I think of Audio1, 2, 3 in the way I do when I use film in my camera for longer exposure. In reality I think of it as loading information into a register that can hold so much data and shifting the data IN an OUT. A specific amount of data is in the register at a give point in time which is a frame of data. The quicker the data is shifted out of the register the less time there is to examine the data. Audio1 would be slowing the register down so the electrics can take a longer look at the data. (This is just an analogy taken from equipment and circuits I have worked with over the years in digital electronics.) When we take a longer look we can ID what the target is more accurately. Co-located targets CAN be a target but with proper setting and sweep speed does not need to be. It is interesting that Audio1 is suggested for trashy sites so co-located targets are not necessarily a problem. When I say with the correct setting I am thinking of tones that give fluty sounds, etc.
If there was no Normal audio on the Explorer it would make no difference to me as I don't use it. A very deep faint target can easily be lost in external and even internal circuit noise but will be heard very nicely in Audio1 or 2. I have not used Audio3 simply because I get all the ID and sound needed from Audio1 and 2.
I think the idea of more or less filtering comes from detector that in fact use more or less filtering and therefore delay the sound more or less. From what I see in the patents the digital pulse induction design of the Explorer does not use filters in that way. The receiver is direct coupled to three sets of modulators and outputs three averaged ground compensated signals that are then filtered. Shifting the channels and the digital processing should pretty much eliminate the filter we find in a detector like the DFX that has up to 6 but is a frequency domain detector. I am not knocking it as I have one and really enjoy using it but frequency domain seems to be very interested in the number of filters where time domain does not.
If there was no Normal audio on the Explorer it would make no difference to me as I don't use it. A very deep faint target can easily be lost in external and even internal circuit noise but will be heard very nicely in Audio1 or 2. I have not used Audio3 simply because I get all the ID and sound needed from Audio1 and 2.
I think the idea of more or less filtering comes from detector that in fact use more or less filtering and therefore delay the sound more or less. From what I see in the patents the digital pulse induction design of the Explorer does not use filters in that way. The receiver is direct coupled to three sets of modulators and outputs three averaged ground compensated signals that are then filtered. Shifting the channels and the digital processing should pretty much eliminate the filter we find in a detector like the DFX that has up to 6 but is a frequency domain detector. I am not knocking it as I have one and really enjoy using it but frequency domain seems to be very interested in the number of filters where time domain does not.
Charles (Upstate NY)
Well-known member
Target masking is variable...
1. Some targets hiding in the shadow of an iron target are simply not detectable IM-16 or not. We see evidence of this when pounding a site to death with the stock coil until it seems void of any good targets but then switch to a small coil and a bunch more coins appear.
2. Allowing in all iron e.g. IM-16 will allow you got get a lock on some targets that are otherwise not detectable if you have iron disc'd out. We see evidence of this when running in IM-16, we get a good signal, bump up the iron mask to say -12 or -10 and poof the good target does a vanishing act.
3. Running IM-16 sometimes hides a target near iron that IS detectable when running IM-10. This is rare but I have seen this quite a number of times. Some of us who routinely run IM-16 do at times long for some peace and quiet and will make use of the Explorers discrimination. Typically when I have found these I'm running an L disc pattern, iron and low conductive trash disc'd out. I get a somewhat iffy signal, my first inclination is to switch to iron mask-16. 9 times out of 10 the singal improves, often a lot but on occasion when I allow in all the iron via IM-16 the iffy signal goes poof and all I hear is iron.
4. Sopping wet soil is the worst condition to hunt in when there are lots of rusty nails about because the iron throws off a huge masking signal. If you come back to these areas when the ground dries out you might be surprised how many coins will appear.
5. Most of this is true for near surface modern trash as well. Most often allowing in the trash will let you get a signal on a nearby good target because you are not fighting the null which seems to be sticky, the machine doesn't want to let go of it. But on occasion the reverse is true, notching out the trash target results in a decent signal on a good target, switch to IM-16 and the machine locks onto the trash target so well there is no hint of the nearby good target.
So nothing is 100% but it helps to play the odds hence I run IM-16 quite often. I think its important not to loose track of the fact that this is supposed to be a "fun" hobby and listening to all the trash and iron noise day in and day out gets old. Throw caution to the wind once in a while and run some discrimination.
1. Some targets hiding in the shadow of an iron target are simply not detectable IM-16 or not. We see evidence of this when pounding a site to death with the stock coil until it seems void of any good targets but then switch to a small coil and a bunch more coins appear.
2. Allowing in all iron e.g. IM-16 will allow you got get a lock on some targets that are otherwise not detectable if you have iron disc'd out. We see evidence of this when running in IM-16, we get a good signal, bump up the iron mask to say -12 or -10 and poof the good target does a vanishing act.
3. Running IM-16 sometimes hides a target near iron that IS detectable when running IM-10. This is rare but I have seen this quite a number of times. Some of us who routinely run IM-16 do at times long for some peace and quiet and will make use of the Explorers discrimination. Typically when I have found these I'm running an L disc pattern, iron and low conductive trash disc'd out. I get a somewhat iffy signal, my first inclination is to switch to iron mask-16. 9 times out of 10 the singal improves, often a lot but on occasion when I allow in all the iron via IM-16 the iffy signal goes poof and all I hear is iron.
4. Sopping wet soil is the worst condition to hunt in when there are lots of rusty nails about because the iron throws off a huge masking signal. If you come back to these areas when the ground dries out you might be surprised how many coins will appear.
5. Most of this is true for near surface modern trash as well. Most often allowing in the trash will let you get a signal on a nearby good target because you are not fighting the null which seems to be sticky, the machine doesn't want to let go of it. But on occasion the reverse is true, notching out the trash target results in a decent signal on a good target, switch to IM-16 and the machine locks onto the trash target so well there is no hint of the nearby good target.
So nothing is 100% but it helps to play the odds hence I run IM-16 quite often. I think its important not to loose track of the fact that this is supposed to be a "fun" hobby and listening to all the trash and iron noise day in and day out gets old. Throw caution to the wind once in a while and run some discrimination.
GraveDiggerMax-VaBch-Va
New member
n/t
At the beach Audio 2 is all I use and there's no doubt in my mind it's perfect for that kind of hunting. For hunting dirt, where there's more iron and junk, Audio 2 locks in on everything. All targets sound BIG if you know what I mean. I tried out the new coil at a local park this afternoon (until I started freezing) and everything's working fine. Haven't had much time in with it, but so far I really like the Platypus. Audio 2 in IM-16 is noisy but good targets really seem lock in even in a trashy area. Separation is better.
Charles (Upstate NY)
Well-known member
n/t
GraveDiggerMax-VaBch-Va
New member
n/t
Captain Kirk
New member
Charles,
As I recall, your are a FERROUS mode type of guy. I think that is an important factor in your success running IM at -16. At any rate, I agree with all that you say.
HH,
Glenn
As I recall, your are a FERROUS mode type of guy. I think that is an important factor in your success running IM at -16. At any rate, I agree with all that you say.
HH,
Glenn
Charles (Upstate NY)
Well-known member
I always run ferrous tones, a must really in IM -16 but something has been nawing at me for a long time. I don't think ML would provide us with conductive tones if the feature didn't have value. And are they trying to tell us something by defaulting the machine to conductive tones?
For some reason I have a sneaky feeling that conductive tones will give a stronger signal on deep coins than ferrous tones. This is based on nothing more than a hunch, I have not tested this. But stop and think for a moment, iffy signals seem to vary drastically along the ferrous axis, jumping left and right. Yet the signal is quite stable in comparison along the conductive axis up and down. I find this to be true even of nickels.
So if the conductive part of the signal is stronger, more reliable, would this result in a better signal at your headphones? Thats the question to answer.
This season as I get deep iffy tones in ferrous I'm going to switch to conductive tones and see if there is any difference.
For some reason I have a sneaky feeling that conductive tones will give a stronger signal on deep coins than ferrous tones. This is based on nothing more than a hunch, I have not tested this. But stop and think for a moment, iffy signals seem to vary drastically along the ferrous axis, jumping left and right. Yet the signal is quite stable in comparison along the conductive axis up and down. I find this to be true even of nickels.
So if the conductive part of the signal is stronger, more reliable, would this result in a better signal at your headphones? Thats the question to answer.
This season as I get deep iffy tones in ferrous I'm going to switch to conductive tones and see if there is any difference.
Captain Kirk
New member
Charles,
I have found a lot of silver coins that fall in the left half of the screen when using CONDUCTIVE mode. These targets really get your attention because of the high tone (but not too high like rusty nails). My hunting companion is a CONDUCTIVE user. He has mastered the difference in the sound between nails and silver. As a result he finds more silver that I do.
I really like the tone performance of FERROUS mode. This mode not only allows easy conclusions regarding rusty nails, but also gives more tonal separation for all coins. Nevertheless, I am wondering how many silver coins I may be passing up since I switched to FERROUS (because of those silver coins that hit on the left side of the screen and therefore give a relatively low pitched tone).
HH,
Glenn
I have found a lot of silver coins that fall in the left half of the screen when using CONDUCTIVE mode. These targets really get your attention because of the high tone (but not too high like rusty nails). My hunting companion is a CONDUCTIVE user. He has mastered the difference in the sound between nails and silver. As a result he finds more silver that I do.
I really like the tone performance of FERROUS mode. This mode not only allows easy conclusions regarding rusty nails, but also gives more tonal separation for all coins. Nevertheless, I am wondering how many silver coins I may be passing up since I switched to FERROUS (because of those silver coins that hit on the left side of the screen and therefore give a relatively low pitched tone).
HH,
Glenn