A Tesoro or an E-trac?

[USArmyParatrooper]

Hello all,

I'm brand new to the forum and I'm soon to be new to the hobby. I'm going to be a metal detector in three weeks. I need help in deciding what to buy.

At first I was sold on picking up a Minilab E-trac, as many detectionists have absolutely raved about them and I don't mind paying for the best. But I had another (online) rave about Tesoro detectors saying the better ones go just as deep (or deeper) than the E-track, and that you essentially get 90% of the overall performance for a third of the cost. To me this says a lot as long as I'm not compromising too much.

Here's what I'm looking to do and my criteria...

- My primary focus is coins, with a secondary focus on finding relics and jewelry.

- I live in Fayetteville, NC (near Fort Bragg). I'm going to be hunting in a variety of different terrains so versatility is important.

- I would like my detector to be able to indicate the type of metal (conductivity) with good accuracy as compared to competing models.

- I would like my detector to be able to sort through junk relatively well

- I would like my detector to be able to pick up small coins (like dimes) at deep levels.

I'll be posting a similar question in the Minilab forum so I can get varying opinions. Thank you for any input!

- Sean

 

[Ken in NC]

Sean

I can recommend the Tesoro Golden uMax for your needs. Lightweight, fun to use, tone ID, accurate. You cannot beat the Tesoro service

 

[BigErn]

Buy both, use both and sell one as they both will hold their values well. I will one day have an e-trac to compare to my vaquero but I am not in a hurry. Its hard to beat this simple yet effective machine with the best service in the industry

 

[fowlercharles]

My advice would to buy Tesoro.I know nothing about the E-Trac other than what I have read and base my suggestion solely on what I have seen personally, and read , on the results of someone new to the hobby that begins by buying the most expensive and likely, the most difficult machine for a novice to learn to operate. And in your range of choices there is a really big difference of $$ involved, so you are off to a pretty good start with your concern for learning.. I can say from experience with Tesoro, that in the last 25 years and a whole closet full of Tesoros, new and old, you will not find anyone anywhere that has a better Warranty and service for those that own a Tesoro, whether it is old, new,or however many owners it has had. It just makes sense to start out with at least a minium to mid range priced machine and learn what you will need to know about all the ins and outs about detecting and how to get the most enjoyment from it.There is absolutely no need to spend a heap of money when you can learn on a much less expensive level, and have just as much enjoyment. At big dollar prices any dissappointments will be felt dearly. Good Luck, and HH (happy hunting) Charlie

 

[therover]

The most important thing about this hobby is having FUN. If you end up getting overwhelmed by a detector, it's settings, it's weight, customer service, etc. you will get frustrated. Being totally new to this hobby, I would say DON'T get an E-Trac. Not saying they aren't any good...heck, it may be one of the top of the line detectors on the market. If you can't get the thing to work, can't figure out all the settings, graphs, sounds, then what's the use. If you have to send it back and have to wait 3 months for it, or after 2-3 years it goes out of warranty, then what ?

So what I am I saying ? Get a Tesoro. Which one ? Good question. You state you will be hunting in a lot of different terrains. I would then assume the ground conditions may vary. That means you will probably want a detector with the ability to ground balance as opposed to one that has a fixed ground balance ( which is NOT the same as automatic ground balance).

If you aren't going to be doing any water hunting, that is to say, getting INTO the water, than you don't need a water proof machine. If you are going to get to the ocean, bear in mind salt air and salt water wreak havoc on electronics, so you most definitely would want a water proof unit. Looking at your post, I am going to assume you will not be beach hunting.

Saying all that...I would say get a Vaquero with an additional small coil and 90% of all your hunting needs will be satisfied. ( I say the Vaquero because I assume if you are also looking at getting an E-Trac, than your budget is pretty high up there. I would also say check out the model higher up, the Tejon, or even simply more and check out the Cibola or Silver uMax...but these two have a fixed ground balance). You can use the stock coil for most hunting conditions, small coil for tot lots ( where more and more jewelry is being found !). Plus you will probably save 700-800 bucks..at least. Super machine, easy to use, light weight swing all day design, manual ground balance, great discrimination, one of the best pin pointing machines on the market, one battery, knobs for adjustments so you can look at it and know where ALL your settings are, life time warranty. No screen, no graphs, no buttons, no mess. Set your sensitivity, your discrimination level, ground balance and off you go. If it beeps, sounds good from multiple angles, DIG IT. If it doesn't sound good...DIG IT ANYWAY. Learn the machine until you get an idea as to it's language ( cuz Tesoros do have their own language and you will learn what iron sounds like as well as round/smooth vs. jagged targets soon enough) and don't look back. Why do I say don't look back. Because like me ( and most of us), you will ALWAYS be wanting another detector, looking at all the other brands, checking out the forums, etc. That's what you should be doing...but DO NOT second guess the Vaquero. Not until you have a lot of time under your belt with it.

Good luck whatever machine you decide on but remember my first sentence...HAVE FUN.

JC

 

[USArmyParatrooper]

Thanks therover, (and everyone else who posted). Just a couple more questions.

From what I read the detectors will make a different beep based on the conductivity of the metal, thus, giving you a hint as to the type of metal. Is this what is meant by the "discriminator", or is that the ability to "see past the junk"?

On that note, how does a detector know when what you found is "desirable" and how does that translate to how the machine communicates with you? I've read certain models are good for avoiding junk, like nails and bottle caps.

 

[Monkeywrangler22]

Most Tesoros are a monotone--ie: only one beep tone. Now that tone can have many 'voices' (rough, clipped, broken etc), and the Golden has multiple tones. On TID Tesoros the screen gives a numeric reading of what the machine thinks the item it. It is fairly accurate on the DeLeon. There is also a bar reading that corresponds with the numeric one, giving more info--if the bar is solid in one slot, it is less likely to be trash, but not always.

 

[oldcoon]

- I would like my detector to be able to sort through junk relatively well

The best I have seen thus far in sorting through the junk is the E Trac. That puppy is unreal in that department. This is from a Tesoro user, but it is my honest opinion.

 

[USArmyParatrooper]

- I would like my detector to be able to sort through junk relatively well

The best I have seen thus far in sorting through the junk is the E Trac. That puppy is unreal in that department. This is from a Tesoro user, but it is my honest opinion.

Can you explain exactly what that means? Does it mean when it hits "junk" the detector doesn't go off?

 

[oldcoon]

It separates the good targets from the junk. Like ignores iron to find silver. Many times you will read where a E Trac user gets a good signal and while digging it will find a nail or some other unwanted item in the hole before he gets to the coin. I love my Tesoros but they can't do that on a regular basis. I would first have to dig the nail, re-scan the hole to get the second signal and then dig my coin. It will take me 2 steps to do what the E Trac can do in one.

 

[USArmyParatrooper]

A couple of you made the point that the E-trac might not be the way to go for my first detector, that if the programing and setting are too confusing it might detract from my experience.

I think I'm going to go with Tesoro (or another less expensive model).

What drew me to Tesoro was a poster on another site who raved about the ability of his Tesoro to penetrate deep and find small coins. Can any of you attest to that?

Is there a Tesoro do you recommend that penetrates deep and offers everything else I had mentioned?

 

[therover]

USArmyParatrooper,

A discriminator on a detector will, based on where it is set, reject certain targets of a specific conductivity, while accepting others. The metal detector is really a machine that sends eddy currents into the ground, and then gets a response from a metal object in the ground, and based on where the discriminator is set and what the conductivity of the target is, either accepts it or rejects it.

To simply things, lets just say iron is a low conductor while silver is high conductor. Since most gold jewelry is alloyed, it can fall anywhere in between. Also, bear in mind BIG iron will still sound off through low discrimination levels based on its mass...which is another variable that I don't want to talk about right now ! Lets just say mass also plays a part.

Say you have your discriminator set to reject iron nails. When going over an iron nail, on it's own, the detector won't signal due to the discrimination setting set to reject iron. If you sweep over a silver quarter, or even a regular quarter, since the coin is higher in conductivity that iron, the detector will go off.

Now here is where it gets interesting. You will see people post that they found a silver quarter with a nail right on top of it. They will say the detector 'saw through' the iron and got the quarter. What really happened is this. Since the discriminator was set to reject iron only, the detector still hit on the quarter because the COMBINED conductivity of both the silver quarter AND nail was higher than iron...which is being discriminated out. The detector really didn't 'see through' anything...it accepted both targets as one, with the combined conductivity of both being higher than iron. Bear in mind this scenario happens when the nail is ON the quarter. If a nail is an inch or so ABOVE the quarter, things are totally different. I have seen videos and examples where even a iron STAPLE, an inch above a coin, will render some detectors useless if discriminating out iron. The detector won't see the coin.

Too bad you don't have a detector now, because what you can do is take a small, 3 inch rusty, iron, nail, and set it about 4 inches away from a silver quarter. The Tesoros are pretty fast recovery speed detectors ( meaning they recover quickly between targets when sweeping. so you can hunt in trash better). Some detectors have a slower recovery speed, while others you can actually adjust the speed. It all depends on your sweep speed, the filtering of the detector, but that is too much tech stuff to get into.

Anyway...sweep the coil across both targets, in all metal, and you will hear both targets hit. Now put the detector in discriminate mode, and set it to reject the nail. When you sweep across both targets, in both directions, the nail will be silent, but you should get a hit on the silver quarter. Now put the nail on TOP of the quarter but keep the discrimination the same. You will still hear the detector hit the nail/quarter combination. Now start to raise the discrimination setting. At some point, probably around the foil or tab setting, the combo will start to break up and then go silent. Where the discriminator is now set is the point of conductivity of both targets. Notice that the discrimination setting where the two targets go silent was still lower than 'Quarter'. That is due to both targets combining to have a conductivity LESS than silver.

There are some targets, like bottle caps, on certain detectors, that if you try to discriminate them out, you will have your machine's discrimination setting so high, you will probably miss most gold jewelry, Indian head pennies and nickels. Some detectors do a better job on bottle caps than others...and some bottle caps are easier to disciminate out than others. All depends on the make up of the cap, how long it's been in the ground ( which is ANOTHER variable in the equation...length of time the target has been buried). That's why if you are hunting at older sites, to use very little discrimination. It's not a coincidence that the relic hunters find a lot of older coins...they use very little discrimination because they want to dig some iron. They want big iron like cannon balls, etc. but also want to find where the square iron nails are located because it gives them clues as to where the people were located.

If you want to really learn about discrimination, pick up the book Taking a Closer Look at Metal Detector Discrimination by Robert C, Brockett. It's a great read.

I think at this point you are doing the right thing....asking questions and learning. These forums are great for that and there are a lot smarter and more knowledgeable people out there than me that can give you lots of good info.

One last thing...ask around your area or do a Google search to see if there are any metal detecting clubs near by. Guys n gals in these clubs love to help out newbies and let them use their detectors to get a feel for things.

I hope I didn't confuse you, and please, anyone chime in if I am off base on anything I said !

JC

 

[John (Ma)]

Personally, I started with a high end detector and got frustrated. Even reading up on it I could not get the hang of it as I am not a tech guy anyway. I sold that detector and ended up buying Tesoro. I have to say, I learned alot and the joy of this hobby is now there for long term. I am just now after a few years looking into the etrac and try high tech again. However, I was not going to do this, but I have a couple people willing to help me hands on and that is the only reason I am considering the detector. I will continue to own Tesoro due to their light weight, durability, performance and service.

To me, the Tesoro Vaquero or Whites MXT would be a great capable way to start without being over welming. Just my opinion

 

[digitaltim]

My last minelab was an explorer 2... I can tell you they're hard to beat. I also tried many other brands of high end detectors before Tesoro.

After years of testing I prefer the Tesoros over all the rest.

I've found plenty of good targets mixed with Iron with a cibola and vaquero. Litterally layers of iron nails and good targets. Maybe other brands are doing it better now, but it's possible with a Tesoro too.

You said you want a Target ID machine though... Tesoro makes them, but In that category I think you'd want the Etrac.

Personally I like to dig everything above iron...There's many good finds in the foil+ range. So what are you going to choose not to dig based on TID?

 

[fowlercharles]

idea to get to far off into such disscusions because of the tendency of ALL of us to be particularly proud of some of our digs and to get carried away with ourselves sometimes. Really good exceptional deep good finds of coins, buttons, and other various items are not all that common and most folks to be honest will tell you most of their finds are made somewhere around the 4-6" level., or less. Deep finds are made , but are not the norm by any means and when they do occure you will make a mental note of it and then move on, hoping for another. I have seen my digging Buddy dig a really nice thin silver dime "engraved "love token " from several more inchs than I have ever seen any coin dug. He was using his Tesoro Vaquero that day. I hunt with a Tesoro Tejon and the last 2 deep finds I made were not coins but on 2 different digs I pulled a tiny brass child's shoe buckle from a 10" dig, and another 1/2 " sized back from a overall button, from another 10" dig..Both finds were only a few feet apart and probably at least 2" below the clay line with there being 8" of topsoil beneath a layer of grass. I measured using the tip to tip of my thumb and little finger to the clay line, with at least the 2" dig into the clay to make the retrieve. That is an estimate, and most folks hand /finger stretch is at least 8'. Mine is 81/4". There will be some folks that have found coins and items much deeper, and I do not doubt them one bit, but that is the latest that has come my way and you can take it for what it is worth. Personally I do not want to dig any deeper than that for the goodies because it was hot, the ground was dry and rock hard, I am an old man and anything below the clay line ain't going to make it any easier. My thoughts, Charlie

 

[fenian13]

It's not always the guy with the best detector, sometimes it's the guy who knows his detector best.

Tesoro's are cheap and deep. Also rugged. I've never babied my Tejon and have been in fact quite abusive.

I've read of Minelab users that keep two because one is almost always in for repairs. That's from reading the minelab forums.

No doubt the E-trac is a kick-butt detector in skilled hands, but there is no doubt either about Tesoro's legendary kick-butt service department and lifetime warranty.

I recently ran my Tesoro Tejon with a fellow who had a Fisher F75LTD. The target ID screen had him digging some hits that my tejon said were trash going on sound alone. The Tejon correctly judged these targets. This guy was no beginner either. Much more experienced than I at detecting. But he was still learning the new Fisher while I have run my tejon hard for three years. (and put her up wet to boot)

Whatever you choose just be aware that it's not as easy as it looks. Be patient and keep at it. It takes a long time to really know your machine. A big help for me was to go to trashy parks and schools and digging everything. Check the target as completely as possible, make a guess in your head and dig.

I've tried not to be too biased here, but I will say that you can't make a mistake buying a Tesoro. You see very few on Ebay and they really hold their value used.

There is no detector made with a better warranty.

And though the Tejon is advertised as a relic machine it is capable of being a great coinshooter. You will be hard pressed to find poor reviews on the Tejon, or any Tesoro for that matter.

 

[Neil]

It's not always the guy with the best detector, sometimes it's the guy who knows his detector best.

Tesoro's are cheap and deep. Also rugged. I've never babied my Tejon and have been in fact quite abusive.

I've read of Minelab users that keep two because one is almost always in for repairs. That's from reading the minelab forums.

No doubt the E-trac is a kick-butt detector in skilled hands, but there is no doubt either about Tesoro's legendary kick-butt service department and lifetime warranty.

I recently ran my Tesoro Tejon with a fellow who had a Fisher F75LTD. The target ID screen had him digging some hits that my tejon said were trash going on sound alone. The Tejon correctly judged these targets. This guy was no beginner either. Much more experienced than I at detecting. But he was still learning the new Fisher while I have run my tejon hard for three years. (and put her up wet to boot)

Whatever you choose just be aware that it's not as easy as it looks. Be patient and keep at it. It takes a long time to really know your machine. A big help for me was to go to trashy parks and schools and digging everything. Check the target as completely as possible, make a guess in your head and dig.

I've tried not to be too biased here, but I will say that you can't make a mistake buying a Tesoro. You see very few on Ebay and they really hold their value used.

There is no detector made with a better warranty.

And though the Tejon is advertised as a relic machine it is capable of being a great coinshooter. You will be hard pressed to find poor reviews on the Tejon, or any Tesoro for that matter.

Good post

 

[joe dirt_1]

Lots of great advice here about buying your first detector. Personally, I wouldn't start out on a high end machine for a couple of reasons. You are new to the hobby and will be totally lost with a machine such as the E-trac as your first detector. Start out with a good mid range detector that is simpler to operate than the E-trac. Your frustration level is going to be much lower with a simpler machine. Even though the detector has discrimination you will still dig lots of trash to find the good targets. No detector is going to allow you to find only the gold and silver coins while discriminating out all the rusty nails and pull tabs, so be prepared to dig lots of trash with whatever detector you decide on.

Secondly is the cost factor. For most detectorists cost is a major factor in the detector they decide on. All detctors will find coins, but the lower end detectors are usually pretty much bare bones without any features such tone ID etc. The more you spend the more features you get...some very helpful and others that are really not needed. Tone ID is a nice feature and will help to determine the conductivity range of the target, but is not an absolute must have feature.

Another consideration is the weight factor of the detector. Swinging a heavy detector for any period of time will cause arm fatigue much quicker than swinging a light detector.
Tesoro is hard to beat in this department.... they have some of the easiest to swing all day detectors made. Trust me, you will appreciate the light weight of the Tesoros.

Detection depth is probably the first question a person asks when buying a new detector. How deep will it detect a dime??? You will read claims of guys digging dimes at 12" plus with their detectors regularly. While I don't doubt it is possible with some detectors with ideal conditions, it isn't the norm. Most coins are much shallower, in the 4" to maybe
6" or 8" range depending on soil type. Very few of the coins I hav dug in 30 years of detecting have been much deeper than 8" or so, with the average depth at about 5 to 6".
If you will be hunting in manicured lawns and parks, trying to dig for deep coins can be a challenge without harming the grass or making it look like a war zone. When you retrieve a coin, it must look like you were never there when done. This is extremely important and is the reason some sites are off limits to detecting. It only takes one bad example to ruin it for others.

You won't be sorry with a Tesoro detector. They are very good detectors with excellent warranty and have a great selection of extra coils for any type of hunting you might do.
You will save a ton of money going with a Tesoro over the E trac too. Buy an extra small coil for hunting heavy trash areas and invest in a garretts pro pointer pinpointer. You will be set to get out there and start enjoying this great hobby. Good luck with your first detector and happy hunting...............Roger

 

[jersey devl]

I have a Cortes (TID) and a Vaquero and prefer to use the V over the $700 machine,simple light and versatile,once you learn to thumb the disc. and understand its "voice" you will be more than satisfied!

 

[AZWIP]

Howdy and welcome. My 2 cents worth here... am still relatively a "rookie". But have to say, 7 months into this hobby. I am still having a blast with my Tesoro Silver uMax. Plenty deep enough for me... and like folks said... give it time... it will "talk" to you. Initially I thouight, yeah, right. But after many hours... it does happen. I'd recommend the Silver uMax in a heartbeat... I really like this machine. Simple and fun. Frequently I hunt with a buddy who has a F75 (I think) and I'll find more.... maybe its because I go more often than he though. Am really learning my machine.

Also, with the dough you would save, you could pick up a garrett ProPointer right off the bat. Man, it rocks!!! I started without a Propointer... was fun... then added the cheapo Harbor Freight and thought "doesn't get any better than this", then after it broke a few times, Father's Day was coming up... hinted towards that to see what all the fuss was about. Kids picked me up one... and Wow!!! It has decreased my retrieval time - big time. And my holes are much smaller as well. Lol.

Anyways, to sum it up... I have to regrets to be sure. Love the Silver uMax and the Garrett PP.

Have fun though. Its addicting. (-;