Find's Treasure Forums

Welcome to Find's Treasure Forums, Guests!

You are viewing this forums as a guest which limits you to read only status.

Only registered members may post stories, questions, classifieds, reply to other posts, contact other members using built in messaging and use many other features found on these forums.

Why not register and join us today? It's free! (We don't share your email addresses with anyone.) We keep email addresses of our users to protect them and others from bad people posting things they shouldn't.

Click here to register!



Need Support Help?

Cannot log in?, click here to have new password emailed to you

Changed email? Forgot to update your account with new email address? Need assistance with something else?, click here to go to Find's Support Form and fill out the form.

Air test vs actual depth

Can anyone verify as to the accuracy between a air test versus actual ground depth. I don't have a garden and just wondered how close these two test would be. Probably a stupid question but I am a little frustrated, I have been doing a lot of test between different coils and I don't see a whole lot of difference, tried the 10"DD, 12" 300, 9.5 concentric, and the latest was on a Detech Ultimate 13. I crossed checked them with my MXT Pro and my VX3. Seems like the MXT was getting better depth than the VX3. Maybe I need to get away from the factory programs and experiment a little. Any help greatly appreciated. Bill
 
i've dug a 10 inch quarter and a 9 inch dime with the d2 coil..even the 6x8 sef coil has found me 7-8 inch dimes..the stock programs are pretty weak..i use the deep silver program with sensitivity 12/80/85 ..the vx3 is plenty deep once you tweak the programs a little.
 
There should be a difference, although it may be less than what you'd expect. Suggest trying again and being very careful and methodical. Place the coil well away from anything metal, use a plastic or wooden ruler and hold the end perpendicular against the bottom center of the coil. Wave the target coin steadily back and forth right past the ruler while staring straight down at the ruler. Make a mental note of the depth you get consistent audio. I always take note of two different depths: 75% or more proper discrimination tone ID (for instance the high squeal of a coin on the MXT) and secondly the max depth of any kind of all metal signal. On my MXT as well as my old V3i and VX3, the all-metal "channel" would get a about two extra inches.

I've tested all those same coils on my MXT and V3i (except for the Ultimate 13 which I didn't get until after I sold my last VX3). The ultimate is deepest giving me a good repeatable coin tone on a DIME down to 10.5" and all-metal down to 12". Next is the 10x12 SEF: 10" with good tone ID and 11.5" all-metal. Then the D2: 9.5" in disc and 11" in all-metal. Finally the 950 concentric: 9" in disc and 10.5 in all-metal. Both my V3i and VX3 would air test virtually identically to my MXT.

Now, as far as air test vs in-the-ground field performance, I've found that the more mineralized the ground, the more difference there is between air vs in-the-ground. In my mild Boise soil, there's maybe a 10% reduction in depth compared to air. In other words, the 10x12 SEF will air test a dime with good tone ID down to about 10" but only go about 9" in actual ground. All the other coils are similar, seeing about a 10-15% reduction in depth when in actual ground. When I head up into the mountains and into some heavily mineralized ground, sometimes the dropoff is as bad as 50% or so. That's why most people say air tests don't matter, because mineralization plays such a big role.

However, I do believe air testing is extremely useful in a controlled environment to compare different detectors and different coils to one another. Air testing represents the maximum possible depth in 0% mineralization. So you can change coils out on the same detector and get a very good idea of relative performance of the two coils against each other. There are other variables that may be in play, like halo-effect, which gives a little more depth in the ground than you'd otherwise expect, and EMI, but still air testing is still very useful for making comparisons in a fairly controlled way.

One thing I noticed about the MXT vs the V3i/VX3: the MXT's reliable tone ID depth drops off less quickly in mineralized ground than the V3i/VX3. The more mineralized the ground the less able the V3i/VX3 is in identifying the target compared to the MXT. Even in my mild soil, the MXT ID's deeper and more accurately than either of my V3i's or the VX3 could. I think this is due to the V-series finicky and frankly inferior ground balance system. But yes, you need to run the V3i hot to get good depth. The MXT at the preset level was as deep as the V3i when it was run hot. The V3i was at least a little quieter, but no deeper, and a helluva lot harder to get set up right.

Hope this helps. Good luck! :drinking:
 
Thanks for both replies, after thinking about this after I posted, I realized that I probably had a lot of electrical interference coming from all of the fluorescent lights in my garage. I will set up a test stand outside tomorrow, weather permitting and go thru this again and write down the results as I test each coil. I will let you know. Thanks
 
Great reply to the depth vs coil size question. Very informative!
Thanx
 
Wayfarer makes some good points about repeatability and making comparisons under controlled conditions. To this end I would like to submit my test rig for doing air-test comparisons of different coils and machines. I use a cardboard box upside down with an opening for the coil's mounting ears and cable. Place the coil on the box so that it is also upside down and the mounting ears and cable protrude into the box's interior, then route the cable out the side of the box and connect to the detector which sits on the table beside the box. Get a wooden yardstick and cut off the first inch, then hang it from above using a nail or screw into a beam (best to do in the basement) so that if the entire yardstick was still there it would just touch the coil's center (there will be a one inch space between the yardstick and the coil since we cut off the first inch). The yardstick should be free to swing side to side like a pendulum. Now mount your test target by taping it to a small block of wood and tape this to the yardstick so the coin (or whatever it is) lines up with the desired "depth" on the scale of the yardstick. Set the stick to swingin' and note your machine's response. Its easy to control the distance to the quarter inch if you like and make very repeatable passes across the coil. You can even compare the response of an on-edge coin versus a flat-on coin by how you orient the the little wood block.

-pete

[attachment 313901 air_test_jig.jpg]
 
I finally got out now that the rain has stopped and was able to do some outside testing and got away from all of the electrical interference and redid my testing and all I can say was it was the difference between night and day. I couldn't believe how much difference it made. I am getting a lot better depth on air test than I have but I still want to make myself a test garden to validate the results. I have read somewhere that it takes up to two years for a test garden to be functional due to the halo effect but was wondering if I used coins, bullets ect that I have previously dug, would that cancel the effect and give good signals in the ground? I a, going to try it today and see. I have a good collection of all kinds of bullets and coins that I have dug recently that I will bury at depths of 3,6,9 and 12 inches to see how accurate the display reading is. Will keep you posted. Thanks again.
 
Pete, like your test station you built, I am going to make a setup today like yours, it will be so much easier and allow me to get actual air depth readings to use as I test the different coils. I think I will start playing with the different programs and tweaking them and see what that does in comparison as well, As soon as I get enough data I will post my results. Appreciate your help. Bill
 
ThunderDome said:
Pete, like your test station you built, I am going to make a setup today like yours, it will be so much easier and allow me to get actual air depth readings to use as I test the different coils. I think I will start playing with the different programs and tweaking them and see what that does in comparison as well, As soon as I get enough data I will post my results. Appreciate your help. Bill

You're very welcome! Let us know how it works out for ya.

-pete
 
"if I used coins, bullets ect that I have previously dug, would that cancel the effect and give good signals in the ground?"

No, I'm afraid not.:sadwalk:
 
Other than waiting one to two years, is there any way to speed up the process? I know this is a stupid question, but I had to ask.
 
Yes. Put the target in the hole, sprinkle some salt(a pinch or two) and use a bit of vinegar(a teaspoon or less) ON THE TARGET and cover it. Wait a week or so(No rain is a good thing). The acidity will beg to strip ions away from the target and create a temporary halo. This works very well when the ground is dry. It also doesn't work well on silver. Im not sure it would work well on gold either. But copper, aluminum, nickel, iron and such it should work well.

Bey
 
Top