Am I missing something??

[coyote]

A couple of weeks ago I found this chunk of metal on the top right of the photo. It was rather shallow ( 2-3" ) buried in the roots of a small hemlock tree. Was registering in the Silver range. However after I removed it behoves me that somebody would melt than toss out and bury a chunk of silver metal. So I decided to post this along with the readings of some similar readings. It seems that AL gives me fits as it reads in the 20's upward in the 40's depending on the size of the piece very very close to Silver, at times and has fooled me.

The ID numbers are shown in the photo. AL foil reads 34 + or minus a couple. The piece of AL rod reads 44 as does the piece of machined AL with hole. I find AL key blanks, bits & pieces that will read anywhere from 26 - 30 + or - a couple.

I'm very new at this MDing and the 705. All this has been a learning experience for me. Is this normal??? Would appreciate any input and suggestions from the forum. I read and refer back to the Digger publications & others that have posted and little by little this senior citizen gains a bit of knowledge. Thank you for taking the time to read & help with my dilemma.

 

[Digger]

The TID of a VLF detector is based on the target's metallic properties. Ferrous and non-ferrous. Many folks refer to the + numbers as conductive. But they are actually determined by the targets conductivity and inductance. When a target is approached by the transmit signal, it generates a signal of it's own, with the opposite polarity. That signal is delayed in it's return to the receive circuit, with that delay in time based on the conductivity and inductance mentioned above. That time delay is analyzed by the software of the detector and assigned a TID based on the parameters established for given metallic properties. In the case of aluminum....it has very similar properties to silver. Good conductor, low inductance, low resistance. etc. As such, a piece of aluminum that is similar in size or shape to a coin, will likely be identified by a detector as a coin. Over the past 40 years, I couldn't begin to tell you how many 5 gallon buckets I've filled with scraps of aluminum and chunks of iron. It's just part of the hobby. But I will tell you that, the more familiar you become with your detector, the less trash you will dig. You're still going to find those big pieces of melted aluminum and swear you've hit the mother lode. But when you learn how to size and shape a target, you'll find those chunks of iron and scraps of aluminum to be fewer and further between. Make yourself a test plot by burying several coins and pieces of trash at varying depths. Practice your sweeping skills until you can identify each target correctly. Learn what it is your detector is telling you on each target. Is the sound sharp, broken or choppy? Does the TID or tone change when you sweep over the target from different directions? Pretty soon, that light bulb will come on and you'll be able to sort out much of the trash. But remember, we all get fooled at times! HH Randy

 

[Mick in Dubbo]

Hi coyote.
Welcome to metal detecting.
It looks like you have discovered what can be found in the ground. Don't be too worried about digging up junk. We all dig it up (just don't post about it). It's an adventure to go out and see what we can find. You'll go through a bit of a learning process in the beginning. I find that Playing around in the back yard with various targets, both good and bad, will give you a good idea of how your detector will behave with these targets. Both in discriminate mode and pinpoint. After a while, you'll start to notice variations in the tone that will help to clue you into what the target might be. No amount of practice or method will be fool proof. You will gradually improve your good to bad ratio of targets as you get to know it.
Be kind on yourself at first as it's normal to feel a bit of frustration at the beginning. It passes fairly quickly and your enthusiasm will have you on track and enjoying your hunting in no time. Having this forum here really helps cut down the learning process, and if you've got any questions like you just posted, then there are some good folks here that can help you out.
As you discovered, not only do coins lock into various notches, so do junk targets. Junk often tends to cause the numbers to bounce around more than coins, which is one of the indicators to look for.
Good luck and have fun.
Mick Evans.

 

[coyote]

Greetings Digger, Mike in Dubbo, & Forum:

First of all, a special thank you for all you have done for the Forum. The e-books, videos & postings have proven very helpful. I realize there are many things I need to become familiar with. Some big obvious signal changes, I miss, than some very subtle signal changes that will take time to identify and become familiar with.

For me, It is amazing that AL, in this case, seems to retain the TID's of Silver & some other items ( coins ) Correct me if I'm wrong but even comes close to imitating the TID of a copper coin making you think an CU coin may be present? That is, when I'm using the AM mode as I did in the photo. Probably would be similar in one of the Dis modes?? Something to work on!

Appreciate the speedy reply & good suggestions. Time to set up a test pit in the back yard! Thanks again! PS

 

[Old Longhair]

Targets that have a multitude of reflective angles, like small wads of canslaw or tightly wadded aluminum foil will often give good enough response to attract your attention. But subsequent swings over the targets will reveal broken or ragged tones. Irregular shapes will often do the same. Items that are flat and round like a coin often give a cleaner tone, making flat round junk harder to distinguish from the real thing. Which is why I dig a lot of smashed rusty bottlecaps.

When it comes to aluminum, the thicker it is the more likely that it will read a high value. A piece of aluminum foil is easily identified, but a tight wad of it or a can melted into a

 

[coyote]

Targets that have a multitude of reflective angles, like small wads of canslaw or tightly wadded aluminum foil will often give good enough response to attract your attention. But subsequent swings over the targets will reveal broken or ragged tones. Irregular shapes will often do the same. Items that are flat and round like a coin often give a cleaner tone, making flat round junk harder to distinguish from the real thing. Which is why I dig a lot of smashed rusty bottlecaps.

When it comes to aluminum, the thicker it is the more likely that it will read a high value. A piece of aluminum foil is easily identified, but a tight wad of it or a can melted into a

 

[Mick in Dubbo]

That's nothing to be embassased about coyote. In fact, if we don't admit to ourselves that we lack knowledge, then we'll never learn. Only a week ago I put in a post about how the GPS feature would really help with detecting. When the info about this was in general terms, what I was thinking, it certainly showed my complete ignorance of how accurrate GPS units are/aren't. Like you, I felt a bit silly, but didn't regret making the post as there were some great people who we able to come on and pass on their knowledge of GPS's and using them in ways I hadn't thought about.
Over time, you will also notice that if a coin is on it's edge in the ground,1) it will give a narrower signal (if it's at 90 degrees to the coil, then you may not hear it) and 2) you'll notice that it will give the next higher number than it normally would.
There are other things that can happen too that can cause a shift in the numbers, but that's another story. Generally, the numbers will be correct about 85% of the time. As you become familar with your detector and as your curiosity grows, you'll make plenty of fun discoveries that will enhance your joy of the hobby.
Mick Evans.

 

[vanstheman3]

[size=medium]I have the same issues as the OP. I have had my 705GP since Dec.10th of last year and I had seen so many people posting with the standard newbie frustrations and their lack of understanding of their detectors. I'm talking about all MDs not just Minelab 705s! I had so many problems with flipping TIDs, not having hardly any single ID tones, very little depth, (not long after getting it I noticed the depth scale never had more than 2 arrows) and any other MD problem issue you can think of! So I just assumed that it was the normal I have to learn my MD story. From Dec. of last year until a few weeks ago I worked so hard at figuring this 705 out and making any sense of it. I read the manual 3 times, and parts of it 5 or more times and did everything exactly as it told me to do it. I had also read Digger's Ebook at least twice and many sections several more times,and watched every video on Minelabs website. I sat in this sub forum and read page after page of Posts and replies as well as doing the same at every other forum I joined. The more I worked at it and tried to understand it, the more Erratic it got. The TID numbers never stopped changing and eventually the tones were like old Acid Rock. Finally the sound started going out and quickly got worse. I sure didn't have anything like the 705 everyone Raves about and loves. The thought that my 705 was defective had grown to the point I was about to send it in, but I wanted to be totally sure I tried everything first. When the sound started going out I knew it had to go back for repairs. When I first got my 705 The Depth was not so good but it had solid tones and its pinpointing impressed me, I could almost always get the target into a 2in circle in pinpoint mode and into a 4in circle in my search mode using the tip and heel of the GP 5x10 coil. It also had some accuracy in the TIDs. Since nothing I tried made it better I adapted to it as best I could as it got worse. I was not letting a MD kick my Butt! Almost 5 weeks ago my sound went out while hunting so I tried turning the MD off and on several times and plugging in and unplugging the Headphones, I never got the sound back that day and went home growling. The next day it worked again but it kept cutting in and out and lowering and raising its own volume. The tones by now were twisted together like strands of rope with the actual target tone being the lowest volume one in the mix. It was also the shortest tone. But I could hear it when the volume was at its highest for the 15 seconds it stopped at the top and and I stopped swinging when it was at its lowest for that 15 seconds. By then the MD was so messed up, pinpoint mode was useless so I pinpointed in my search mode as I swept the coil over my targets and averaged the changing coin TID. Two days before I sent my 705 in for repairs I was searching a totlot and found 41 zinc pennies and a wheat penny, 4 clad quarters, and 3 clad dimes!
Now is probably the time to mention my Old Fisher Coinstrike! A few months ago with the Minelab driving my nuts I decided to try another detector and bought a cheap used Fisher C$ from a local seller. It was a deep easy to learn and use pretty nice detector, it did chatter a bit like people say Fishers do. I switch between the C$ and 705 daily until the 705 would make me mad then switch to the C$, I carried them both. After a couple weeks the C$ started acting the same as the 705 But not quite as bad, and no sound problems. Now I had two different brands doing the same thing driving me crazy in stereo, I almost had to think I was doing something to these MDs or My ground was doing it somehow? I was not doing anything to the MDs that didn't come out of the owners manual in my lap as I did it on the C$ and/or with the manual or Diggers Ebook on my lap as I adjusted the 705. Neither MD ever saw water, neither ever stayed in my car all night, the 705 was new and the C$ was mint! Both MDs came into my house house working well (except the 705s depth) and Both were Unstable in less than a month each? I decided to send them both in for service Figuring the C$ might need debris cleaned out of it, and it probably needed checked out and recalibrated. I have a friend that has that done to MDs he buys? I sent the C$ first figuring I would probably have to pay and hour labor and after being cleaned inside and recalibrated, it would come back with a clean bill of health and I could sell it. It weighs to much and I am not wild about its combination numeric pinpointing and depth gauge that take over the TID numbers.I sent it in about 7 weeks ago and it was gone about a month, so during that Time I was devoted to figuring out the 705! I bought the 705 5 months ago and I bought the C$ 3 months ago, the C$ was gone for repair for 1 month of the three I owned it. The 705s problems kept getting worse and the sound went bad beyond use by luck just about a week before the C$ came back!
Now is probably the time to mention the Tesoro Deleon, I bought it from a private seller in another forum about a month ago. I used it while the C$ was in for service and the 705 wasn't working. I mention this MD for the timeline and because it's part of the MD story!
Now lets tie it all together. Fisher Calls me after getting my C$ and informs me it has a bad coil, and they don't have one so have to make a new coil, This is why it was gone a month! When they Called again they informed me the C$ Coil had been put on the MD and it had been tested and would ship later that day. I then called Minelab service and explained what my 705 was doing and got a RO number and they Emailed me a prepaid shipping label! As I pulled the packing material out of the C$ box I used it to pack the 705and off the 705 went to ML. I had to switch from my Deleon to the C$ to test it out so I could decide if I wanted to sell it or not after its repair. I'll only say the C$ is a monster now, I don't know what MD can touch its depth, but it wont be a cheap one! I think the new coil is 1/4lb heavier than the original! I used it a few days and went back to the Deleon way lighter MD. In my Letter to ML I put in with the 705 I stated the C$ doing the same thing and having a bad coil. Two days after shipping it off ML called and let me know they got it that day. It was a Friday afternoon. The next Wednesday the Tech called and informed me that the only thing worth keeping on my 705 was the control face and the control box plastic case, and that the coil was bad also! Every part inside of my 705 was replaced, as well as the coil! It was done and sent to shipping Thursday late afternoon. it shipped on Friday late, and I had it back yesterday late afternoon. I had asked them for a Catalog and calender and bumper sticker, I got a thin High end only catalog, The repair paperwork, and a service satisfaction questionnaire! Oh and they kept my Velcro straps I used to hold the Coil Wire together, That I use on the MD to hold the wires to the shafts. I guess they traded me for a new set of Batteries they put into it, That's a fair trade for me. I used the 705 today and it works good I can't say great because it doesn't pinpoint as good as it used to, and it seems to have a slow reaction time now? Does the reaction time change with sensitivity or some other function setting? To be fair I was only out 3 hours before I got to hot and couldn't get any air out of the air, we had some kind of yellow air alert here today? Is there something I can do to improve the pinpointing to get it back to what I'm used to it pinpointing like and also can I do anything to speed up reaction time? I swing the MD at the suggested speed and its no problem as I am actually searching, its when I am stopped and swinging maybe a foot wide to narrow down the target before pinpointing! im not getting the target tone until I'm 2 inches past the target going either way? Sorry this is so long... Good Luck and Happy Hunting,,,,, Pat [/size]

 

[Mick in Dubbo]

It sounds like you had a real bad run with the 705 Pat. I know your frustration. I had a few teething problems myself, but it got sorted and I enjoy the X-Terra.
There is a slight delay in the pinpoint. I can't remember how much, but it's never bothered me whatever it is. If you want a more instant responce, pinpoint by using the procpecting mode. No delays there. It's very precise. In normal pinpoint mode, the detector does detune (become less sensitive) with each pass. Most notable after the first pass. The pinpoint can tell you a lot. If the pinpoint does let go of the target, it's usually junk.
I hope that it works properly for you now as it's very agrivating to have it play up as it did with you.
Good luck.
Mick Evans.

 

[Mick in Dubbo]

To destroy your 2 demons you might be interested to know that the X-Terra's will give a low tone on a steel bottle top as it passes under the edge of the coil (even if it high tones under the centre) and a flattened Screw cap will often give a lowering tone as you drag the edge of the coil past it.(On the Explorer.) A coin can give a single lower tone some times but if you get more than one lowering tone, it's a screw cap or canslaw. On the Explorer, coins seem to sound tighter in pinpoint as well, which can help. It's not perfect, but it can cut down on your bad targets recovered. In pinpoint, screw caps can sound a bit more vague and undefined. There will always be some screw caps that will fool you though unfortunately, but that's life.
Mick Evans.

 

[TURNMASTER]

Pat, that really shows some patients and determination. Bummer. Hope all is well now. Now that you are theough the worst that patience will build skill.

coyote, We all dig those chunks. They sound to much like a good target not to. The kicker is sometimes a good coin sounds broken or scratchy and like a trash target. Trash in the hole, coin sitting at an off angle and other variables will trick me. My best coin was crystal clear but only an inch or two deep. One of my better dimes sounded like crud and was sitting on edge. My first Injun was jumping all over the place and super hard to identify. The answer there was simple, it was in a hole with a bunch of nails and several other shallower coins. Eventually you may find yourself digging trash and knowing it is trash, but still digging to prove it.

Jeff

 

[IA]

Sounds like the problems im having with my new 505. no detector should be this difficult to learn....i have a whites idx, ace 250, and a fisher f2. and can find coins anytime out easy with all. i have found 1 quarter with the xterra and a pile of alum. and bigger junk... like you i hate to send it in till im sure its not me.. good luck. Tim in Ia....

 

[rocknrolldad55]

Wow my 705 is 2 months old and last week the sound quit on mine.I tapped the case and the sound came back on. I dont think it has anything to do with my coil though. Ive been digging silver at 10-11 in .That was a Franklin half. Ive dug small pieces of jewlry at 8-9 in.Not ready to send this back to be fixed. I will say it does have a learning curve. Much more than my At Pro had. Or maybe mine is bad .I have found some good deep things with it. It seems like a lose wire or something. I dont use headphones so it isnt that.

 

[vanstheman3]

Its funny because I started by turning it off and on and that worked sometimes then as it got worse I flicked it on the corner with my finger like we used to do to Nerds when we were Kids! When it got really bad Nothing fixed it and I knew it had to go in for repairs, Well my Coinstrike was at Fisher waiting for them to make a new coil for it and I knew the 705 was almost shot, So I bought the Deleon. I'm now buying a Cortes! Both of my MDs have recently got back from factory service and both are working great Now! I have them both up for sale, The Fisher because it's to heavy, and the 705 because with it being mint and all new this seems like the best time to sell it! Oh yeah I recently had to take my Garrett Pro Pointer in for repairs to the Garrett factory! I handed it to a tech at 9:50am and had it back fixed by 10:40am! Fisher, Minelab, and Garrett all 3 had great service! I'm falling asleep at my PC,,,So Good night all ....GL & HH..................Pat