An F70 newbie question about the sound of deep signals...

[REVIER]

Forgive me if this is just a newbie, "duh" question, but for all I am learning about the F70 I honestly don't know the answer, or I have not noticed anything that will answer this in the field on my deeper targets so far.
I tried doing a search but no luck so I will just throw this out there.
I do know that the higher the thresh setting the louder all tones will come in.
I also know that there is some modulation in the tones, especially using certain tone settings on the F70 and rolling over some big shallow targets it can get pretty loud.
I am thankful that the designers thought of making the overload signal come in automatically as a lower volume tone, there are a few times I might have got my ears blown off if they didn't.
I do want to say that when I hunt I always have the sound turned up all the way, on my headphones that have a volume control too, I like it loud when I hunt to hear all I can in that signal and that might affect what I am hearing but I honestly don't know.

My question is this...
On the deep ones is there a marked difference in volume, that is do deep targets sound further away to a much greater degree than shallower ones?
Those "whisper" sounds people talk about...can and will I hear these differences and if so what settings do they show up at the most?

I know on my F2, my Compadre and my Vaquero this is true, the deeper targets sound further away, the shallower ones closer and louder and there is a marked difference that I notice on the really deep ones.

Maybe I just don't have enough time with my F70 so far, but these are things I usually pick up on and so far using the F70 I haven't.
I got a really deep hit the other day and it got me thinking about this.

http://www.findmall.com/read.php?37,2012362

This wasn't a great target but it was a target that the F70 ID'd somewhat correctly, had a repeatable tone from all directions using all the different tone settings including AT, and for the life of me I can't remember it being way lower in volume or harder to hear than a target that might have been half the depth or less...and this target was a measured 14" deep, minimum.
I did not throw down a coin near this signal area before I dug it to check the difference, and there were no other targets in the vicinity that were shallower that I compared this deep one to, and I don't happen to have an area where I can plant a test garden with targets at different depths, either.
I was using headphones with no volume control at the time, and I was also hunting with low disc set on 4 and maxed out the sense to 99 and the thresh was on 9 in DE speed so maybe that had something to do with it for all I know.
Like I said I realize there can and will be some modulation, but for the life of me I could not remember a huge difference on this super deep one at all.
As I remember it was pretty loud and clear as a coin would have been at 3 inches, ok, maybe not quite as loud but this was no whisper signal either by a long shot.
The target was a little bigger than a coin but not by much, either, and actual coin targets might act differently but in this I am not sure.
So have you guys ever had something so deep you could hear it but as a whisper signal, and will I ever hear that type of signal myself?
If so, what tones and/or other settings affect this the most to get that sort of modulation range?

I don't mind not hearing a huge difference in my different depths of targets, as long as I get a decent tone, can get it to repeat I will probably dig it come what may and I have that pinpoint button which appears way accurate to help me out, but what can you tell me about this stuff because as of this morning it is really starting to bug me.

 

[bertman]

I've never used the F70, but I suspect it performs right there with the F75 (non boost). I can detect an 8" silver dime in my test bed with the sens at 1 and disc at 0 with my F75 using the stock coil.

With this setting I can hear the dime with a soft signal.

With the default sens of 60 and disc of 0, the dime sounds as if it were only 2" deep.

With the sens at 99 and disc at 0, the dime sounds like it's barely under the surface.

I mainly hunt sites where old houses were demolished and the lots scraped and have yet to hear a soft deep signal.
All signals are loud and clear even between the street and sidewalk where the ground is undisturbed.

HH Robert...

 

[REVIER]

I've never used the F70, but I suspect it performs right there with the F75 (non boost). I can detect an 8" silver dime in my test bed with the sens at 1 and disc at 0 with my F75 using the stock coil.

With this setting I can hear the dime with a soft signal.

With the default sens of 60 and disc of 0, the dime sounds as if it were only 2" deep.

With the sens at 99 and disc at 0, the dime sounds like it's barely under the surface.

I mainly hunt sites where old houses were demolished and the lots scraped and have yet to hear a soft deep signal.
All signals are loud and clear even between the street and sidewalk where the ground is undisturbed.

HH Robert...

Thanks...I suspected something like this was happening.
The one thing I didn't do was play around with the sensitivity settings on this target and by turning it way down and then up again I probably would have had my answer.
So basically manipulating the sense controls this changes the sound, and at my usual high settings I should pretty much get a much less modulated or at least a different sounding not so far away tone according to depth on the deeper ones unlike my other detectors at most of their normal settings.
Actually, the Vaquero supertuned will act in a somewhat similar manor so I get it.
I know the F series is way overpowered, but I love that power and at certain sites try to use it to my advantage.
I have been a mostly shallow jewelry hunter for the most part, 6" and under has been my realm and I have done well, but this deeper area I can now easily reach more often then not intrigues me and it is fun for me to dig so deep...at this point the deeper the better just to see what is down there good or bad.
I know I can probably hit that deep dime with mine on really low sense using the 11" DD coil like you can with your F75, or come close, anyway, but it is hard to wrap my head around hunting with the sense any lower than 60 at this point even though in the back of my mind I KNOW it will still go deep way below that setting and now I realize those depth differences in the audio will come into play if I do.
Maybe some day as I progress and keep experimenting I will do more of that now that I understand this, but for now I will turn it up all over the place and see if I can find some super deep stuff like I did on this example, and still dig everything else good I come across in the other depth levels to and not worry about hearing any whispers because this way I probably won't.
I am just starting out with this fantastic machine, turning the sense way down and listening to those tones that way is just another great experience I will eventually try on some hunts in the future.
The setting combinations on this thing seem endless and so much information audio and visual is affected by these different settings.
This is one of the great things about this detector, not only the great finds and the almost effortless way it can find them but my boredom level is at the absolute lowest it can get and that is also very important to me and it is so very much fun to experiment.

 

[MarkCZ]

Does your headphones have a volume "Limiter" in them other than just volume controls?

Mark

 

[REVIER]

Does your headphones have a volume "Limiter" in them other than just volume controls?

Mark

Not sure.
They are Killer B's.
I also use a pair without any volume control and it works fine...not too loud.

 

[IBdiggin]

AHHHH, there they are again, and you want to hear them.....".Whispers from the deep"............... Looks like I am not the only one who has had those haunting words embedded into my mind while exploring Tips and Tricks of the F5. I was captivated by the dead on description of the capabilities of the F5 and so wanted my newly acquired F70 to have that same magical, find all, capability. I asked nearly the same question of the forum as you just did with hopes of getting a reply of "OH Yeah" , I hear those whispers all the time, or "Amen to that". Instead someone,(I can't remember who) jerked me back into reality with the reply, "More like screams from the deep".
I recall the day I found my second and third Mercury dimes. I was experimenting with the low 35 sensitivity and -3 threshold settings. Mudpuppy, myself and a few others from our F series thread were tossing around the idea that reducing these settings had a direct effect on coil footprint size to a certain extent which seemed to exist regardless which coil you were using . Mudpuppy found this to be true with the 11" DD. I had the 10" elliptical and had just found a small silver charm next to a picnic shelter trash can about 6" from the concrete. Trash was so concentrated you could see foil and pull tabs lying on the surface here and there The charm was 2" deep and there was nothing at all that resembled a whisper anywhere around that can. The sound was more like a cry of the sweet silver in comparison to the dozens of foil and pull tab tones surrounding it, but no whispering. I actually didn't intend to leave the settings as they were but in the excitement of my little piece of silver with my new found coil size reduction method, I had a senior moment and wandered off with out changing them. Soon after, I heard the sweet cry of silver again, a dead on 75, in a one way hit that caught my attention like RIGHT NOW. I knew instantly there was something different about that hit. No jumpiness what so ever and not a target you would expect was nearly out of the range of your settings. I turned to do a 90 degree sweep and nothing. Turned back and there again, sweet and solid, no mistaking that silver in delta pitch but only one way. Even with that first weak hit , PP mode depth was right on at 6" but there was no whispering. Had I been cheated out of hearing whispers once again? After all if didn't hear whispering here, I was willing to bet I would never hear them. Not in my soil at least. Maybe in soil so clean you could run your threshold very high. Don't know. With threshold still at -3 and sensitivity now bumped up to 50, that same sweet silver was there in all directions, still a very solid 75, and the cry, a little louder. But then again so was surrounding ground sound. I went about 30' and found another Merc at the same depth.
I knew right then and there that to actually hear those deep signals as whispers, you would have to put them in perspective by manipulating your volume and sensitivity and threshold to resemble the effect so to speak. Ya like you're gonna tell an already hard of hearing old fart to turn down the volume NO WAY!! Deep signals will be smoother and quieter, but sadly, no whispering There is nothing shy about the F70. If you are asking it to be coy of soft spoken, well your barking up the wrong tree here. As you well already know Revier, but I will say it for benefit to others just new to F70, this is an in your face, and I'm going to tell you everything that is here, and it's up to you to figure out what is good or bad, medal detector. NOW HANG TO YOUR HAT AND LETS HUNT! There is no whispering. More to me like a whisper zone you have just penetrated, a new level if you will, and the next step to new discoveries you may have just unleashed with this incredible machine. HMMMMMMMMMMM whisper zone, HA, I kinda like that. Remember, Ya heard it here first Beem me up Scotty, no intelligent life here---HH

 

[REVIER]

I am from Michigan and not so much an absolute "In Your Face" kind of a guy like some New Yorkers I know but according to my sensitive, sweet, demure Alabama born and raised bride I am.
All people in the south think we Yankees, or at least the ones from the northeast, all talk way too loud and way to fast.
I don't see it...it all seems normal to me, even when we take vacation trips back home to visit friends.

As far as whispers I don't care if I never hear one in my life.
Maybe if I turn my settings way down at some point it is good to know it could happen and I will listen for them and hear them if I do, hopefully, but I can tell you with my jacked up to max settings this 14" target didn't whisper at all...far from it.
The audio seemed to say, "Hey, I am laying down here pretty shallow!", but the pinpoint numbers said different and that pinpoint was right on in this case.

So be it...an in your face kind of guy like me would prefer an in your face type of detector to hunt with and if I can get a pretty solid and decently loud signal on a not huge target this deep it appears I own one.
Fine with me.
More deep signals clearly heard means more digging and more surprises and probably more older and better treasure.
Can't wait for the ground to thaw out so I can get to some more of these deep ones.

 

[IBdiggin]

Absolutely, F70's are really quit cool. I think I am just about to the point of trying my next coil. Just need to decide which one. I have so many different varieties of soil here.

 

[REVIER]

Absolutely, F70's are really quit cool. I think I am just about to the point of trying my next coil. Just need to decide which one. I have so many different varieties of soil here.

Not sure what you already have but I have 3.
I am not retiring my 10" elliptical for sure, I have a few way old and trashy parks with about a bazillion bottle caps at all depths from just laying on the surface to deep, some pretty wide open areas loaded with these things too and that is the coil I will probably use to find even more jewelry than I already have the next time I go back.
Hunting this area with the 11" DD F75 coil would tire me out quickly, I suspect, mentally if not physically.
Rimming these things with the edge of the coil to drop that signal to a low iron number will alert me to many, but that will actually take a lot longer and I will dig less targets overall using that coil.

I also have the small sniper and I would prefer it to be a concentric instead of the DD type because of the bottle cap thing but I am sure it will still come in super handy at my crazy trashy sites like basketball courts and I am looking forward to revisiting many of my old courts and see what lies at deeper levels.
I have only used it a little but I can tell you it works fantastic in trash and depth does not seem to be an issue at all.
Very impressive depth as a matter of fact.

Since older coins are my goal this year and in my older park sites they seem to dwell at all levels but especially at 7-8" and beyond that 11" DD coil will probably be the one that I will keep mounted and use the most this year.
I can go pretty deep with the 10" elliptical, but this one does seem to go a bit deeper with better and more accurate info on the screen.
I can't say for sure but I do believe it seems to handle EMI a bit better, too, and I am able to turn up my settings higher than using the standard coil in many of my sites and it seems a little more stable and smoother, also, even at these higher settings.

I really need much more experience with all these coils, this is just my initial impression.

As far as any aftermarket or that new Fisher coil that is supposed to be coming out I don't have any interest in those at this point.
I have great soil at most places and a pretty complete set of different coils that should work well in most situations and keep me occupied for the foreseeable future.

 

[MarkCZ]

Okay, back to the headphones.
If the Killer B's have a volume limiter and all the volume in the detector is set to MAX and with some that can be a lot. The limiter will clip off so much of the high volume that what happens is the volume drop of the deeper targets can be so close to the limiter cut off that you can lose the modulated effect of the detectors electronics.

I know that with detectors like the XLT I had this problem, I had the modulated audio set "ON" but I could never here any difference in 10" or 3" targets, but I was using SunRay Gold headphones which has a limiter.
I have the same problem with my Tesoro Tejon, it has so much volume that the headphones have to clip so much off that the deep (faint) sounds just like surface targets.

Also, some detectors have much better modulated audio than others, the Omega has great modulated audio and not enough MAX volume for a need for a volume limiter.

The Sunray's have a limiter switch on them so the limiter can be turned off.

Mark

 

[REVIER]

I have another pair I use, cheaper, no limiter, the volume seems the same.

 

[MarkCZ]

You should be able to air test the modulated audio, try the built in speaker and see if the volume don't fall off after you get a distance of 8" or so. Then try it with the headphones.

Mark