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Hi all, Would like to move out of my F2 and onto an F5. It's conditional on one aspect. The F2 has missing numbers is the scale that I cant hit. Look at my JPG File if you want to see the chart I drew. About 21 missing numbers between 15 and 95. If the F5 can display all numbers between 15 and 95. I'm changing. Any takers for helping?
Thanks
only one real F5 expert here is Mike Hillis-check all his past posts or pm him .his info has helped lots of people-including me.I know I've registered hits between 15-95 on my F5.if ya change to a F5 you'll be pleasantly amazed at its capabilities.
I can't tell from your picture what is missing. What are your missing numbers and what type of targets are you using to see the spread?
Are you missing numbers because you never find anything in that number range?
Or are you missing numbers because you don't have any test targets for that range?
Since the scale is a conductive scale, I think the reason you have these so called missing numbers is because you don't have targets with the right conductive readings to bring them out.
I have an F5. In any given range there will be numbers you never see until you hit exactly the particular item that might register there.
I keep some charts for the F5 and after a year of heavy hunting there are a few numbers I have yet to see or record any targets for. I'm not troubled by this. I don't think it's as many 'null' numbers as you have there, however.
How did you do your test? Is it a similar case of never having 'hit' certain numbers or does a target become 'invisible' when you switch to a different tone? If the latter, I haven't seen this with the F5, but I haven't methodically tested for it either. I've done a few spot checks in different tones / modes and the only difference I ever saw in ID numbers was between 'all metal' mode ('auto tune' or whatever, on the F5) and d3-d4 tone in disc mode. The target did not disappear but sometimes gave different numbers (or no number) in 'all metal'. Frankly I don't use 'all metal' much so didn't explore the issue further.
As for coins, most hit in a much narrower range than the brackets. In fact, for a given coin there is often one number that you will see almost every time if the coin is, say, surface to 2.5". The numbers will sometimes 'shift' for a coin at depth, while maintaining a tight range. Example would be a certain clad coin normally hitting at 80-81. One day you get a 83-84, dig, and there is your 80-81 coin at a measured 6". When I was in the US it worked the same way for US coins, though I don't remember the exact numbers. Bottom line is it's pretty common to not hit all over the 'quarter' range, for example, but that doesn't mean you're missing anything.
I have to say I've been thrilled with the ID capabilities of the F5 outside of the iron range, which I disc out.
You only memorize the good numbers within a range. For example, on my F5, 72 is a copper penny, 74 is a clad dime. No big deal. I see a 70-72, its penny, I see a 73-74 I got a dime. Then it is hohum digging pennies and dimes, until you see a 78. A 78? what is a 78? hmmmm. yes, what is a 78?
A quarter is a 83/84 in my dirt. Hohum until I see 80. What's a 80? hmmmm...yes what is a 80?
A nickel is a 29 -32. 50% chance of being a pulltab. ho hum...I'm walking along digging nickels and pull tabs until I see a 26. A 26? hmmmm....whats a 26?
What I'm getting at is that its those 'off' numbers that are interesting stuff and that stop me in my tracks. Not the normal numbers. I see any high number out side the norm and I know I've got something interesting. I get any low numbers outside the norm and I know that I've got something interesting. What I've learned is that those 'off' numbers are not worth memorizing because they don't hold true to a particualar target often enough to be true. So I've only memorized the 4 coin numbers (nickel, zinc, penny dime, quarter).
My jewelry finds come from those off numbers.
Don't worry about your scale. The more you hunt, the more likely it is that you'll come across a target that will hit there.
Well put Mike, when you see certain numbers your going to dig a know target most times. But if you don't dig the "off" numbers you'll miss some good stuff. In some places that are loaded with tabs I will dig and define the target ID # on different tabs to try and avoid digging them, but when in doubt------ you know the rest.
26 would be an electrical twist tie here as the gold is not 14k and the rings I've dug have been higher on the scale. There's also the tell-tale aluminum squawk. But if a 26 had a nice full tone, maybe a roundish pinpoint, and I hadn't dug one at the site before, I might dig it. Just isn't real likely to be anything good here. Solid hits in the 80-93 range, really anything over 70, will usually get dug. Nothing too controversial about the right side of the scale..
A lot of our coins and relics are not slotted to the right but all over the place, mixed in with industrial trash. Probably a dozen 'modern' coins at least, and then all the charms and knick knacks. So knowing the 7-8 most common 'bad targets that sound good' tends to be better than trying to remember an ever growing list of good ones, at least for me.
As for missing good stuff, I don't worry about that much. If I've dug hundreds of brass grommets at a certain ID number and never anything else, it's time to stop digging brass grommets. Everyone has their own philosophy with this, and that's fine, but personally I prefer to not dig certain low probability targets.
Thanks for all The replys. I will address your concerns here. The Red lines (21 of them)in the picture are the numbers the machine does not want to EVER hit. Even if I had a 1000 coins from all over the world the number would never be hit. I think it's the resolution of the machine. If a particular target is passed under the coil and 1000 times and reads 59, 500 times and 61, 500 times it indicates to me the machine can't resolve the number 60. the same is true with the other red lines. I have been using all sorts of targets and have spent several hours trying to illuminate those missing numbers. It appears tone or category change is not the factor. I did the test in free air with hundreds of things in my GRAB BAG of treasure. Theoretically if the machine had 100 resolution you could just put one target down and by moving further away the number would just slowly decrease as it would with an analogue machine. I know the F2 numbers of the common coins and also love an OFF numbers.
I guess I was just asking if the F5 could, if pressed, with a 1000 world coins and 1000 bits of treasure hit all the numbers?. Its a resolution question. I love seeing the Number and "Guesstimating" the object/treasure hence the more different numbers the more love I have for the machine. I was wondering if the F5 CAN show all the number.
Thanks for reading.
PS I am a Physics Tech at Uni' in Perth so I think a have a reasonable testing technique.
I know it's a hobby but I'm OBSESSED sorry
No need to be sorry Alimo, a lot of us are obsessed in one way or another.
I've never paid attention to notice if there are "null" numbers on the F5, but my strong impression is that if there are some, it's not nearly as many as you're seeing with your F2. You've got me curious now, so I'll start watching the numbers that hit (or don't) more closely.
Mike Hillis' numbers are pretty much right on with what I see in my area. And I'd say 29-32 is the most common range for nickels, but I've dug my fair share that have hit in a higher range than that.
As gb50 said, the numbers will vary at times, particularly at depth.
I haven't noticed any missing numbers on the F5 but I also haven't gone looking for any. Strickly speaking my opinion, from experience but without fact to back it up. I don't think there are any missing numbers on the F5.
To tell the truth, I'm not interested enough about it to put in effort to find out.
But if I was interested enough to find out I would use a flat sheet of copper to test the high numbers down to around pull tab range, and lead to test the range below pull tab range. Then trim and test, trim and test, trim and test.
I'm no expert, but I do have both the F5 and F2 detectors. The F2 is a good machine for turn on and go detecting, but doesn't have the adjustability of the F5. Since you seem to be an "experimenter", IMHO you would love the F5 with all the knobs. I really like how easy it is to continuously adjust the gain, threshold, and discrim settings with the knobs versus a menu preset value. As with the others, I can't address "missing" id numbers, but if you are wondering if the F5 is a true step up, I think it is. I liked the F5 so much, I thought I would get the F75LTD for all those "deeper" targets that I was missing (christmas present). So far, in my TX soil, it hasn't improved my finds as much as I had dreamed, but I think the F75 is a different machine and more of a learning curve than I expected.
I'm at the beach in SC this month and I brought the F2 and F5 with me. The F2 does fine in dry sand, but beeps at the wet sand. Since I can't ground balance it out, it seems pretty useless in the wet sand. The F5 does well in both wet and dry sand and have found clad coins in 6 to 8" down in the wet sand. The ground balance (phase lock) button gets used a lot when moving along varying degrees of wet and dry. Dry sand values are 50 to 60 and wet sand takes it al the way down to near zero values at times.
(I know this is a tad off subject, but since you were comparing F2 to F5, thought you would be interested)
I can't commit to a test replication either but just looking at your chart I can say that quite a few of your null numbers like 26, 47, 58 do come up regularly in my hunts. As for the other numbers throughout the entire range, I can't say for certain.
I wouldn't be surprised if the F5 has a few nulls but my _feeling_ is that there are not 21 of them.
I'd like to see you get an F5 just for the various tests I'm sure you'd run. As Joe mentioned, it's a tester's dream with the knobs. It's also a versatile machine that turns in a strong performance at a reasonable price point without IMO significant caveats or drama.
Thanks again, My friends F2 has missing numbers too but they are shifted my 59 jumping to 61 (note not 60) is his 57 jumping to 58. I'm guessing the F5 ,at the least, has fewer missing numbers. Good idea on the test MHillis. That is sort of what did in some places. When the F5 comes with a second coil as an offer, I will purchase same. It's a pity Fisher labs won't reply to my questions ,then I could stop boring you all. Thanks all
As you know I am not as frequently as I would like around here, too much going on, but let me answer this question quickly:
The F5 will give you all the numbers from 1 to 99. No zero. Some of those numbers will however be so rare you would think they are not even there, but let me tell you, I put them in. All of them. One by one LOL!
Of course depending on your targets and your soils you will be seeing some numbers more often than others as well.
About the F2 I don't really know, not my kid.
Not sure if marketing or sales departments will ever offer a free accessory coil for the F5.
Hope this helps, and thank you for all your interesting contributions.
obsessed in one way or another.
knowledge!