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APEX nail board test

John-Edmonton

Moderator
Staff member
Although I find these various nail tests somewhat interesting, 2 major flaws remain with these tests.

1) The nails are all the same level (height) on a horizontal plain. Which means, if you could raise a nail or group of nails to a greater or lessor height, the results would dramatically change. Which would allow one to manipulate the results. In other words, one would have to first ask, what exactly trying to prove with this test? There are literally, thousands of examples of nails and target positionings if you turn this into a 3 dimensional test, which, of course matches to the real world field matrix.

2) Even with the nails the same elevation on a horizontal plain, any nail ban be moved slightly in a parallel or adjacent direction, again, changing the results. It is lacking any international set of rules/guidelines such as size of board, length, mass and composition of nails. Also, size of coin and again composition of coin. One also has to ask how mineralization of the surrounding matrix of nails/coin would effect the final outcome.

Sorry for ranting on, but I have been involved with medical research, involving a triple blind drug studies, a double blind drug study and a life-saving E. coli O157:H7 (hamburger disease) intervention test. All these tests have extremely high standards. This nail test is really flawed in so many ways as I have explained. And we haven't even dabbled into the different characteristics of the detectors, such as operating frequencies, sizes of coils etc.
 

Dave_E

Troll
Although I find these various nail tests somewhat interesting, 2 major flaws remain with these tests.

1) The nails are all the same level (height) on a horizontal plain. Which means, if you could raise a nail or group of nails to a greater or lessor height, the results would dramatically change. Which would allow one to manipulate the results. In other words, one would have to first ask, what exactly trying to prove with this test? There are literally, thousands of examples of nails and target positionings if you turn this into a 3 dimensional test, which, of course matches to the real world field matrix.

2) Even with the nails the same elevation on a horizontal plain, any nail ban be moved slightly in a parallel or adjacent direction, again, changing the results. It is lacking any international set of rules/guidelines such as size of board, length, mass and composition of nails. Also, size of coin and again composition of coin. One also has to ask how mineralization of the surrounding matrix of nails/coin would effect the final outcome.

Sorry for ranting on, but I have been involved with medical research, involving a triple blind drug studies, a double blind drug study and a life-saving E. coli O157:H7 (hamburger disease) intervention test. All these tests have extremely high standards. This nail test is really flawed in so many ways as I have explained. And we haven't even dabbled into the different characteristics of the detectors, such as operating frequencies, sizes of coils etc.

John,
Have you done, or have you found, any videos that accurately show the target separation abilities of the Apex?
2D, 3D, or otherwise?
Thanks.
 

IowaRelic

Well-known member
Aside from the flaws of the test, how do you explain its just outright poor performance? Even if it’s a flawed test, it has still been widely used as a benchmark for performance in iron. So all machines are tested on a flawed test and this one does worse than most. So is there something in the APEX that says “ no, I won’t separate these targets for you, sir. because, I know this is not a real world situation”? I have a feeling there is going to be months of endless defense of this machine just because of who makes it. I hope everyone gets them so I can get all the goods out the iron patch with my Time Ranger Pro. I’m not trying to be a smartee, just calling it like I see it. Go watch chiggs first outings with it. He digs a lot of iron with it. He knows garrets and he sure knows how to run a machine. Clue number one right there.
 

Dave_E

Troll
The coming reviews and test videos are going to be interesting. Had one on order but cancelled it after some early negative reports.

I cancelled my order too. Ended up ordering a used Equinox 600 to go with my Nokta Impact.
I was very hopeful for the Apex, but I'm now wondering if it can even perform as well as an Ace 400 AT Pro.
You're right the coming reviews and videos will be interesting. We need to see more.
 

Monte

Well-known member
I'm about two and a half weeks tardy replying to this topic on this forum. It's been mentioned on other forums where we have discussed the new Apex.

As for testing a detector, anyone can imagine or dream up some sort of a test just to be a test. In the case of my Nail Board Performance Test, it's based on an actual, in the field encounter at the ghost town of Frisco Utah Memorial Day weekend of '94. I duplicated the exact layout of the Indian Head using those four nails that were surrounding it in their actual position. From that I had a sign maker make Nail Board test kits for me that are exact duplications. Several manufacturers have one of my Nail Boards, and that now includes Garrett, after I saw the test done by Steve Moore.

One thing I noticed about some of the tests were that the Nail Board layouts people used were not to scale with the original which I have been relying on for 26 years of detector evaluations.

Some of the tests that were posted also we're not using the proper settings and that resulted in testing errors that gave iron nails a higher tone reading.

Let me just add my personal results using the Apex with its standard 6 x 11 Viper coil. If I am hunting a site that is heavily littered with iron nails, I am not going to use a mid-size or a bigger-size search coil. I'm going to use a smaller coil that will work more efficiently in and around all of the nails. Garrett has not made a smaller coil yet, and I hope they will soon, but I was personally surprised at how well the Apex and Viper coil performed.

You don't do this test with a little wiggle but instead you sweep the coil from left to right and right to left completely across the Nail Board just as you would encounter things while out hunting a site. And making a complete side to side sweep along the four different routes from both directions gives you a possible eight hits on the centered coin. The Apex and Viper coil will produce 6 out of 8 and sometimes give an iffy 7th hit. For that oversized coil that is very good performance. There are a lot of coin hunting detectors that I have enjoyed for urban coin hunting that won't get more than one or two hits using a 5in Double-D coil, so that is an indication the Apex and Viper are impressive.

On Monday I got my second Apex and set my custom discrimination settings the same as my original Apex, and then I used both models with the same settings and their own Viper coil and did some comparisons. Each of them performed very similarly and worked well on the Nail Board and a couple of other iron nail test challenges I put them up to.

I am pleased with what Garrett has given us in the Apex and I bought my second unit so that I'm ready when they release a small coil so I can keep the two devices ready to grab with a Viper coil or a small coil, based on the type of site I encounter.

Monte
 

calabash digger

Well-known member
Apex is good in iron....the thing's that people say that make you go hmmmmmmmmmm...... Go watch Iffy Signals APEX VS VANQUISH video on iron separation capabilities of each detector....
 

IowaRelic

Well-known member
will be doing my OWN test today on way to pick up a Apex and Simplex.....
I saw it... something smells dead afterwards. Hey, I’d love to see the Time Ranger Pro in the mix on these tests. It’s another solid performer at a low price. I let mine go as a gift to the father in law. Slap that apex back on the counter and demand a TRP. 400 bucks.
 
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