Apex vs. Ace 400 and AT Pro

[cherringtonsm]

For anyone who has used the Ace 400 or AT Pro and also uses the Apex, how would you compare the Pro in terms of depth, separation, recovery, etc. with the Apex. I currently own both and am happy with the Pro but disappointed with the 400 due to the fact that it falses a lot. Is that an issue with the Apex? My Pro is 8 years old and I want something newer. Would I be improving myself with the Apex? I know the Apex is multi-frequency which I would like with my next detector. I have primarily hunted parks and schools and most likely will continue to do so. I’ve watched numerous videos on the Apex and several other detectors of different brands. I like my Pro but would like to get a little more depth. Being submersible is not an issue. What are your thoughts?

 

[Tahts-a-dats-ago]

You might want to contact Garrett about your 400. You could have a coil issue.

There were some early reports of coil issues with the Apex. From what I've read, Garrett replaced those coils and that ended the falsing problem.

I have not experienced a falsing issue with my Apex.

 

[cherringtonsm]

You might want to contact Garrett about your 400. You could have a coil issue.

There were some early reports of coil issues with the Apex. From what I've read, Garrett replaced those coils and that ended the falsing problem.

I have not experienced a falsing issue with my Apex.

That’s good to hear. I’ve read other comments from guys who said their 400 does the same. It’s out of warranty now, I haven’t used it much and just figured the falsing was due to not being as good of quality as the Pro.

 

[Tahts-a-dats-ago]

Do you have another coil for the 400?

If you do, try using that coil to see if it falses too. If it does then it could be a problem with the 400. If not, the problem could well be the coil.

It might be worth the time to contact Garrett even though your 400 is out of warranty.

Among the reasons I chose to add an Apex to my collection of machines is Garrett's stellar reputation concerning service.

 

[Tahts-a-dats-ago]

For me I do believe the Apex is a better choice than the AT Pro. I did own an MX Sport - believing it too was a better machine (for me) than the AT Pro. Of course it helped that I had other Whites machines and was familiar with the way Whites machines operate.

I ended up selling most of the machines I did own (mostly Whites machines) and buying a new stable of machines. Part of that was because of the Apex - I like it well enough that I believed I wouldn't likely use the Whites machines enough to justify keeping them. I'm still in the process of becoming familiar with my Apex (the other new machines as well) but I've gone to my permissions with the Apex and pulled good targets (I've hunted those locations for years) out of a minefield of trash. Most importantly - the Apex is a lot of fun to use. I enjoy hunting with the Apex - and for me the hobby is all about having fun.

I cannot honestly say the Apex is deeper than the AT Pro, but I suspect it might be. I don't run tests with my machines - I just hunt with them.

I mostly hunt permissions with a lot of history (some dating back to the early 1700's). Those sites have tons of trash - bits of iron, square nails, pull tabs, etc.. The machines I own were chosen with that in mind - with a premium placed on unmasking ability. I chose the Apex as a machine that could hunt such locations, but also be a good choice for the beach (dry/wet sand) and parks - kind of a general purpose machine. My experience with the Apex thus far suggests that I made the correct choice.

My current machines:

Nokta/Makro Multi Kruzer
Nokta/Makro Anfibio multi
XP Deus
XP ORX
Garrett Apex
Tesoro Compadre
Vanquish 440 (my wife's machine)

Of those machines the only two that I owned prior to 2021 (and have quite a bit of time with) are the Multi Kruzer and the Compadre. My guess is that the two Nokta machines and the two XP machines are a bit deeper machines (than the Apex) if they are set up for depth. I'd also guess that the two XP machines are better unmaskers and the two Nokta machines are slightly better unmaskers (small coils and set up correctly). All four of those machines require more "work" than the Apex. The Apex is a lot deeper than the Compadre, but I'd guess that the Compadre is a bit faster. Both the Apex and the Compadre are fun machines - easy to use, easy to swing, and just plain fun.

The Vanquish is my wife's machine. I used it a bit while helping her figure out how to use it. I much prefer the Apex to the Vanquish - finding the Apex to be better in the iron trash and far more intuitive to use. I suspect depth is roughly equal (between the Apex and the Vanquish).

Machines I used to own:

Whites V3i - I loved that machine. The Apex is far easier to use; lighter weight and easier to swing. The Apex is not nearly as programable, but that isn't necessarily a negative. I think the Apex is faster (recovery) and unmasks better. I think the V3i was deeper (set up correctly).

Whites MX5 - I loved that machine. A very fun machine to use (like the Apex). The Apex is the more capable machine, with more options, yet as simple to operate. I think depth is roughly the same. The Apex is faster (recovery) and unmasks better.

Whites MX Sport - I think the MX Sport was deeper than the Apex. The Apex is faster (recovery) and unmasks better. The Apex is lighter weight, swings easier, and is more fun to use. The Apex has more options, yet is more simple to use.

Whites Beach Hunter 300 - The Apex beats it all the way... with the lone exceptions being depth and ability to hunt in water.

Fisher F4 - The Apex is vastly superior.

Teknetics G2 - The Apex is likely a bit deeper. Both are fast (recovery) and both unmask well. The Apex has a lot more options.

Teknetics Europro - The Apex is deeper. Both are fast (recovery) and both unmask well. The Apex is superior.

Garrett GTI 2500 - The Apex is much faster (recovery) and unmasks much better. The 2500 was deeper (all metal mode - with larger coil). The Apex is much easier to swing and has more options (frequency choices).

Minelab CTX 3030 - To be fair I just did not gel with the CTX 3030. The Apex is faster (recovery) and unmasks better. The CTX 30303 was probably a bit deeper, but I'm not positive. The Apex is far easier to use, swings far better, and is far more fun.

Minelab Etrac - The Apex is much lighter, far easier to swing, much faster (recovery) and it unmasks better. I suspect depth is roughly equal. The Apex is far easier to use and far more fun.


There are a few more machines that I used to own, but I can't recall them at the moment. At any rate - I prefer the Apex to them.

Bear in mind the fact that my thoughts may well differ from yours - and other detectorists. The machines I like most may be the machines that others do not like (and vice/versa). For me, the Apex is a good purchase. I am pleased with its abilities and believe it is a very good tool for my purposes.

As I gain more experience with the machines I currently own my thoughts on how the Apex compares may well change somewhat. While I do value depth, I place a premium on the ability to unmask good targets in a bed of trash - you may well have different priorities for your machine choices.

 

[cherringtonsm]

Do you have another coil for the 400?

If you do, try using that coil to see if it falses too. If it does then it could be a problem with the 400. If not, the problem could well be the coil.

It might be worth the time to contact Garrett even though your 400 is out of warranty.

Among the reasons I chose to add an Apex to my collection of machines is Garrett's stellar reputation concerning service.

I do have the 5x8 as well and it does the same. I have contacted Garrett and they suggested a factory reset which I’ve done several times, and reducing sensitivity. At this point I’m planning on selling it in the near future and getting an Apex.

 

[cherringtonsm]

For me I do believe the Apex is a better choice than the AT Pro. I did own an MX Sport - believing it too was a better machine (for me) than the AT Pro. Of course it helped that I had other Whites machines and was familiar with the way Whites machines operate.

I ended up selling most of the machines I did own (mostly Whites machines) and buying a new stable of machines. Part of that was because of the Apex - I like it well enough that I believed I wouldn't likely use the Whites machines enough to justify keeping them. I'm still in the process of becoming familiar with my Apex (the other new machines as well) but I've gone to my permissions with the Apex and pulled good targets (I've hunted those locations for years) out of a minefield of trash. Most importantly - the Apex is a lot of fun to use. I enjoy hunting with the Apex - and for me the hobby is all about having fun.

I cannot honestly say the Apex is deeper than the AT Pro, but I suspect it might be. I don't run tests with my machines - I just hunt with them.

I mostly hunt permissions with a lot of history (some dating back to the early 1700's). Those sites have tons of trash - bits of iron, square nails, pull tabs, etc.. The machines I own were chosen with that in mind - with a premium placed on unmasking ability. I chose the Apex as a machine that could hunt such locations, but also be a good choice for the beach (dry/wet sand) and parks - kind of a general purpose machine. My experience with the Apex thus far suggests that I made the correct choice.

My current machines:

Nokta/Makro Multi Kruzer
Nokta/Makro Anfibio multi
XP Deus
XP ORX
Garrett Apex
Tesoro Compadre
Vanquish 440 (my wife's machine)

Of those machines the only two that I owned prior to 2021 (and have quite a bit of time with) are the Multi Kruzer and the Compadre. My guess is that the two Nokta machines and the two XP machines are a bit deeper machines (than the Apex) if they are set up for depth. I'd also guess that the two XP machines are better unmaskers and the two Nokta machines are slightly better unmaskers (small coils and set up correctly). All four of those machines require more "work" than the Apex. The Apex is a lot deeper than the Compadre, but I'd guess that the Compadre is a bit faster. Both the Apex and the Compadre are fun machines - easy to use, easy to swing, and just plain fun.

The Vanquish is my wife's machine. I used it a bit while helping her figure out how to use it. I much prefer the Apex to the Vanquish - finding the Apex to be better in the iron trash and far more intuitive to use. I suspect depth is roughly equal (between the Apex and the Vanquish).

Machines I used to own:

Whites V3i - I loved that machine. The Apex is far easier to use; lighter weight and easier to swing. The Apex is not nearly as programable, but that isn't necessarily a negative. I think the Apex is faster (recovery) and unmasks better. I think the V3i was deeper (set up correctly).

Whites MX5 - I loved that machine. A very fun machine to use (like the Apex). The Apex is the more capable machine, with more options, yet as simple to operate. I think depth is roughly the same. The Apex is faster (recovery) and unmasks better.

Whites MX Sport - I think the MX Sport was deeper than the Apex. The Apex is faster (recovery) and unmasks better. The Apex is lighter weight, swings easier, and is more fun to use. The Apex has more options, yet is more simple to use.

Whites Beach Hunter 300 - The Apex beats it all the way... with the lone exceptions being depth and ability to hunt in water.

Fisher F4 - The Apex is vastly superior.

Teknetics G2 - The Apex is likely a bit deeper. Both are fast (recovery) and both unmask well. The Apex has a lot more options.

Teknetics Europro - The Apex is deeper. Both are fast (recovery) and both unmask well. The Apex is superior.

Garrett GTI 2500 - The Apex is much faster (recovery) and unmasks much better. The 2500 was deeper (all metal mode - with larger coil). The Apex is much easier to swing and has more options (frequency choices).

Minelab CTX 3030 - To be fair I just did not gel with the CTX 3030. The Apex is faster (recovery) and unmasks better. The CTX 30303 was probably a bit deeper, but I'm not positive. The Apex is far easier to use, swings far better, and is far more fun.

Minelab Etrac - The Apex is much lighter, far easier to swing, much faster (recovery) and it unmasks better. I suspect depth is roughly equal. The Apex is far easier to use and far more fun.


There are a few more machines that I used to own, but I can't recall them at the moment. At any rate - I prefer the Apex to them.

Bear in mind the fact that my thoughts may well differ from yours - and other detectorists. The machines I like most may be the machines that others do not like (and vice/versa). For me, the Apex is a good purchase. I am pleased with its abilities and believe it is a very good tool for my purposes.

As I gain more experience with the machines I currently own my thoughts on how the Apex compares may well change somewhat. While I do value depth, I place a premium on the ability to unmask good targets in a bed of trash - you may well have different priorities for your machine choices.

Thanks for your reply, it is very helpful. Which coil do you use on the Apex? I’m leaning towards the viper but the 8.5 x 11 is supposed to be a little deeper. I can’t imagine by much though and the viper I suspect is lighter.

 

[Tahts-a-dats-ago]

I have the Viper coil and the Ripper coil [5X8]. I use the Ripper coil the most - because I mostly hunt in very trashy locations. I do like both coils.

 

[Monte]

I have owned an Ace 400, I used an AT Pro and a borrowed AT Max, and I currently own and use 3 of Garrett's Apex devices.. I ls bought a new 4th Apex, all of them with the MS-3 wireless Z-Lynk Headphones. Why do I have 3 Apex units? :

• I enjoy their light-weight and comfortable handling.
• I was impressed wit how well they handle a lot of dense Iron-contaminated sites I tend to favor.
• I enjoy their simple, yet functional, settings.
• I like the up-to 5-Tone audio.
• The numeric VDI read-out is accurate for the bulk of the sites I hunt, for both urban Coin Hunting an remote Relic Hunting.
• I favor Garrett's search coil options (But do wish they's make their 4½" Concentric for the Apex).
• I am enjoying better battery r'run-time' withthe Apex than most of the other rechargeable modls I've owned and tried.
• I have not had any falsing issues from EMI that I couldn't deal with by using a reduced Sensitivity of Frequency-Offset.
• There are 2 coils, especially, and a 3rd coil I'm using to keep each of my Apex devices ready to grab-and-go.
→ My primary-use coil, the 'Ripper' 5X8 DD is mounted on my 1st Apex for general-purpose, day-to-day hunting.
→ The 'Raider' is their 8½X11 DD attached to my 2nd Apex for working a beach, plowed field, or any wide-open / sparse-trash site.
→ On my 3rd Apex I have the NEL 5" 'Sharp' DD mounted for times I want a TID model for hunting a more confined / trashy site.

The 4th Apex I just acquired a coupe of months ago before my move to Texas for one good reason: i keep the standard 'Viper' coil attached and this Apex I have on-hand as a 'loaner-unit' for friends and family. I got it to replace another detector that had that role so that anyone hunting with me will also be using the same detector I am, with the same 'Custom' settings I have in all four devices, and that way they won't feel I have an 'edge' on them. We'll all be using a very decent-performing detector.

I prefer the Apex to the AT series because coil connections are easier, they are lighter-weight, and balance quite well.

For those reasons. as well as much improved performance, I favor it over the Ace 400. The Apex, in my opinion, shouldn't have been associated with the Ace series as it is completely different circuitry design and vastly improved in the way of performance, specially in a dense Iron littered location. My Ace 400 didn't usually have any 'falsing' or 'noisy' behavior unless I was too close to some electrical EMI source, or when I tried to hunt some very challenging, highly mineralized gold mining era town-sites. I believe some of the noise or behavior issues of the 400 I had were related to Ground Balance issues.

[B][FONT=tahoma]cherringtonsm[/FONT][/B]: You said you mainly hunt parks and schools and most likely will continue to do so. That's fine, and most are urban locations and have well manicure lawns so w need to be careful with our recovery efforts. to keep thing 'tidy' and not draw negative attention to our activity. But you also kept mentioning 'depth', such as this statement: ".. would like to get a little more depth." Naturally, a lot depends upon what we each consider 'depth' to be. I've only been an Avid Detectorist for over 56 years and the majority of the coins I find and recover are located from surface to about 4"-5". Over 5" to perhaps an honest 7" is in the "getting deeper" category and I find coins that deep much less often. Anything 8" and over, and I'm talking an honest, measured depth, are very few and far between.

nI open areas, to include big grassy parks, schools, private property permissions and such, I get very adequate performance with my 'Ripper' coil, but I do favor the 'Raider' for times I might get a little improved 'depth', like an inch or so depending upon the site environment, and slightly better coverage. The standard Viper' coil can do fine, also, but the 'Ripper' coil on my Apex has given me solid hits on coins I have recovered, so far, down to 6+ inches.

I'm older and have some health and mobility issues so I have trimmed / adjusted my Detector Outfit to have a very good working batch of detector for all my ants and needs and hunt-site conditions. Some of them are more-or-less for 'special application' needs:

• Tesoro Bandido II µMAX and Silver Sabre µMAX, each with a 6" Concentric coil, mainly for tot-lots and similar quick-grab applications.
• Nokta Relic w/5" DD for very dense Iron contaminated Relic Hunting sites, and Nokta / Makro Simplex + w/5X9½ DD for 'wet days' / beach.
• And my 3 most-used Garrett Apex detectors with coils assigned 'as needed'.

Monte

 

[BobOso]

Some people have good experiences with the Apex, others do not, Perhaps Garrett should do more testing before releasing a detector.

 

[Monte]

Some people have good experiences with the Apex, others do not, Perhaps Garrett should do more testing before releasing a detector.

Well, I do not think there is a 'problem' with the Apex from reviewing your video. I own 4 Apex devices. The first 3 I acquired for my personal use each have a different search coil mounted for different site applications and needs. The 4th I acquired in March before relocating to here in Texas. All of them use the same 'Custom' program settings and the only differences is the search coil on the far end of the rod.

The 1st Apex I received right after their initial release and it had software version .23. The 2nd & 3rd Apex units and the latest 'loaner-unit' Apex all had software version .25. They have now all been updated to the current .28 software version, and all of them work quite well. I have compared them with other detectors I HAD, those that I currently HAVE and against some that friends own and use. I haven't found a reason to consider them in need of any repair or service.

All that was being 'compared' was the response-and-recovery time with several coins in a row, or a coin in with some iron debris mix. I have owned 3 of the ORX models, the junior brother of the Deus with Deus-like performance .... to a degree. I liked some of the ORX performance and with my settings it worked well in the two 'custom' program slots. Both were based on the Coin mode (not User Fast which didn't work well for me) and I have he Discrimination set at '7' and the Recovery at '2' meaning the only real differences left were Iron Volume and Frequency. User 5 slot was 14 kHz and User 6 slot was 31 kHz if I recall.

I know that the Deus and ORX can be worked at a faster sweep speed than almost any other make or model out there, and in closely-positioned targets, a slow-and-methodical sweep is going to work the best with most modern detectors. The video sweep was too fast, or, once a decent signal was heard, it would have been checked with a slow-motion sweep. That's not an engineering consideration for most detectors because they still work well.

Also, there is the unknown, to me, about the Deus settings for Discrimination, Recovery and Frequency used. The Deus, which costs twice as much or more, MSRP, also has other adjustment functions so the mid-priced Apex doesn't have all the adjustment options of the Deus. The Apex, on the other hand, was using the US Coins Discriminate mode, and that much rejection will work against it when faster-sweeping a series of coins or trying to handle the Iron and still respond to the coin. I also wasn't sur which Frequency the Apex was being worked at. So the obvious advantages in adjustment function and detector behavior might favor the much mode expensive Deus. All the unknowns make this an unfair comparison, and it would have been helped if the Apex would have used a slower sweep speed at a reduced Disc. setting that accepted more favorable targets.

Me? I am just fine with my Apex devices, search coil choices, settings and detector application.

Monte

 

[Tahts-a-dats-ago]

Some people have good experiences with the Apex, others do not, Perhaps Garrett should do more testing before releasing a detector.

That can be said of just about every metal detector ever made, and pretty much every company that has ever made metal detectors.

 

[cherringtonsm]

Some people have good experiences with the Apex, others do not, Perhaps Garrett should do more testing before releasing a detector.

Keep in mind he is comparing the Apex to a detector that cost almost 3 times as much. All the reviews I read and saw were very good. I’m only interested in how it compares to the Pro.

 

[jmaclen]

There is definitely something odd about the APEX sounding off on what sounded like some kind of interference several times in the video. Maybe it was picking up EMI from the gentleman's camera/phone or he has an APEX with one of the malfunctioning Viper coils.

As far as the target separation and ferrous/non ferrous testing, that looked to be pretty normal from my experiences with the APEX and I disagree with and basically ignored his commentary on the APEX performance level compared to the single frequency Deus using the Fast program. The APEX has fairly fast recovery speed for a simultaneous multi frequency detector. Lack of recovery speed in the older Whites SMFs and the BBS and FBS Minelabs is no secret. The new Vanquish has similar recovery speed to the APEX thankfully and the Equinox is much faster.