Auto ground balance inferior to manual?

[heavymetalbeeper]

Is auto for only folks who like to keep it simple and not fine tune? What short comings if any does an auto ground balance have that one cannot do with a manual ground balance? Would the Lobo's auto ground balance miss out on any type of certain situation?

 

[fwcrawford]

I'm not familiar with the ground balance setup on the Lobo, but I have read where in certain conditions the ground tracking may ignore a deep or small target with repeated swings over the area where the target is located.
In other words, if you get a faint signal on a target and continue to swing over it to pinpoint it, the ground tracking feature may react as if it is readjusting to the sample of ground it under the coil.
Hopefully, someone else will chime in on this topic and be of some help.
Other than what I stated above, I am not aware of any pros or cons to having auto ground balance over manual ground balance.

 

[BarberBill]

NOt sure I'd say "inferior". However, in some situations it is desirable to run the ground balance a bit more negativer or positive than neutral and this is possible with manual control, but not usualy an option with auto tracking. Manual does offer the user full control.
BB

 

[JB(MS)]

Unless an automatic ground balance detector has a lightening fast inhibit feature it will track off. For example, if the coil is swung over an iron object the auto balance will try to balance to the piece of iron, or any other metal or mineral object the coil is swung over. Not so for manual ground balance. I've owned quite a few auto ground balance detectors, have one now, including a Lobo Super Traq and for my use I would choose a manual ground balance over any of them even though the ground here is virtually mineral free and consistent. The Lobo Super Traq only has auto ground balance in all metal mode, disc mode has preset ground balance.

 

[jld66]

i do not know much about eletronics. but, i would say that manual would be better. like barberbill says, you can set and adjust it yourself. i use a vaq and that is one of the reasons why i got it. the manual gb in both all metal and disc mode. that way you know that it is right on. like a car, automatic transmissions are nice. but have more control and fun with a manual.

 

[heavymetalbeeper]

jld66, that makes good sense to me. I handled the Lobo today and I like it better than the Cortez, but it may not be as versatile. The Tejon seems like another good option as I liked that one too. I guess I'm going to have to figure out what my needs will be. Initially the idea of pursuing gold seems like the top priority, but I do not meet many who actually find all that much. Is the Vaquero the best bang for the buck in all around use?

 

[Rainyday101]

The Vaquero is a great detector, BUT the Tejon has the dual disc which can come in very handy.

If you want gold, get in the water with a Tiger Shark. Note that is freshwater I am talking about.

 

[jld66]

jld66, that makes good sense to me. I handled the Lobo today and I like it better than the Cortez, but it may not be as versatile. The Tejon seems like another good option as I liked that one too. I guess I'm going to have to figure out what my needs will be. Initially the idea of pursuing gold seems like the top priority, but I do not meet many who actually find all that much. Is the Vaquero the best bang for the buck in all around use?

well, i just got the vaquero back in april. before that i never touched a detector. i did a lot of research on them and yes, think it is the best in its price range. when or even if i get another one. it will be the tejon. i almost got the fisher F5. but the warranty with the tesoro is what got me looking at them. i am very pleased with it. has everything you really need. the only thing that turned me away from the tejon was the batteries. it takes 8-AA's, while the vaq takes 1- 9V and the cibola does not have the manual GB.

 

[joe dirt_1]

Alot depends on the ground situation where you will be hunting. Auto ground balance will work pretty well in most places, but manual ground balance assures you the best balance at the site you are hunting. Manual ground balance also lets you change to larger or smaller coils
and not having problems with the coils not being balanced to the detector. You do have to learn how to ground balance a detector or you will not be getting top performance from the detector if the ground balance is off. Once you get the hang of it, you can be ground balanced and hunting
in just a few seconds....very simple to do.......HH

Roger

 

[Rainyday101]

jld66, that makes good sense to me. I handled the Lobo today and I like it better than the Cortez, but it may not be as versatile. The Tejon seems like another good option as I liked that one too. I guess I'm going to have to figure out what my needs will be. Initially the idea of pursuing gold seems like the top priority, but I do not meet many who actually find all that much. Is the Vaquero the best bang for the buck in all around use?

well, i just got the vaquero back in april. before that i never touched a detector. i did a lot of research on them and yes, think it is the best in its price range. when or even if i get another one. it will be the tejon. i almost got the fisher F5. but the warranty with the tesoro is what got me looking at them. i am very pleased with it. has everything you really need. the only thing that turned me away from the tejon was the batteries. it takes 8-AA's, while the vaq takes 1- 9V and the cibola does not have the manual GB.

jdl66, you made a good choice on the Vaq. A lot of bang for the buck and a lifetime warranty. As you have already noticed you really don't need a display.

Metal detecting is a hobby. All hobbies cost money. By definition a hobby could be described as an activity designed to suck money out of your wallet. In the big picture though, metal detecting after the initial purchase is not very expensive. It is also a hobby that can pay for itself. The point I am making is don't let the cost of a few batteries keep you from buying a Tejon. The batteries last forever. So if you hunt a lot you will might change them twice a year. Compared to other hobbies that will never pay for themselves, that is cheap.

Some people have trouble ground balancing the Tejon. Don't try to ground balance it with the sensitivity cranked into the red. Turn it down to 4-5 and it will ground balance as easy as any detector.

 

[BarberBill]

In response to Joe dirt above, I've never had a problem changing coils of different sizes on the three auto ground balance machines I've had experience with. I'm talking about true auto balance, not factory preset models that have to be adjusted internally.
BB

 

[joe dirt_1]

BarberBill, you are correct. I should have said factory preset ground balance instead of auto ground balance. Thanks for clearing up my mistake.

Roger

 

[reddirtfisher]

If your ground mineralization is high where you live you will need manual ground balancing. If it is moderate or low then you can be OK with factory preset ground balancing. Just remember that with manual ground balancing,.. it HAS to be set CORRECTLY... or you will lose depth. Hope this helps.

 

[BarberBill]

I probably have too many detectors, some are factory preset and several are true auto and several have manual ground balance. Most of the areas I detect have mild soil and the preset models work quite well. However, for what it's worth, I'd recommend any user that is going to have just one detector and may detect in a variety of ground situations, should purchase a machine with manual ground balance or true auto tracking ground for when it's truly needed. A properly set manual ground balance never hurts anything, even in mild soils.
BB

 

[John (Ma)]

I had an etrac for a while and found manual balance to be much deeper than the auto. Also with the auto I found that I had to lock or auto balance in heavy iron. Auto is nice in parks, fields and general woods for changing conditions as with manual you should keep rechecking periodically.

 

[Walknstik]

My own personal preference is a manual GB unit cause that's what I learned on...to me more versatile and if you don't monitor the GB setting then there's only one person to blame

 

[Elton]

n/t

 

[Furious T]

I use machines with pre set ground balance, manual ground balance and "auto" or "tracking" ground balance, and each type of machines has its place...the challenge is in picking the right place/time to use whichever machine you are using...e.g. if I am hunting where there is savage soil mineralisation, will I be happy with knowing that a "pre set" machine wont give me depth..if not, then I use a machine with variable ground balance. But if the soil is also variable with respect to mineralisation, will I be happy to constantly check the ground balance on my machine, or do I want to "simplify" my detecting by using a machine with "automatic" ground balance. As some pointed out, a machine "in auto" can null out a faint target, so by using a machine having automatic ground balance does not mean we dont have to stay alert to the audio signals, both faint and loud...if a machine "in auto" comes up with a faint signal, I know it is time to "play", and then that involves other features which come with that machine... I guess, in the end, it comes down to preferences and detecting locations. All three types of machines (preset, auto and manual) have their place...it is a matter for the individual person to decide which machine suits his/her needs best. HH

 

[Monte]

heavymetalbeeper, you've had a flurry of posts, many with multiple questions, so I am responding to two posts here, and clarifying your question so readers might better understand Ground Balance. Many don't and presume that if a metal detector lacks a control specifically labeled for Ground Balance, then it must be "automatic." For years we would read a manufacturer's literature or Owner's Manual that called their factory preset Ground Balance "automatic" when it was only 'fixed.'

So, for those readers who do not know what methods of Ground Balance setting or adjustment methods are available, let me just touch on them.

Preset or Fixed GB: This can be done in circuitry or with a trimmer on the circuit board. Usually the GB is preset during assembly and final check-out before going to shipping. Manufacturers have different methods they use to adjust the 'Preset' Ground Balance, such as using a ferrite specimen so that it might handle most average ground conditions. One thing of note here is that the Preset GB is done in the All Metal search or Pinpoint mode/function and depending upon the circuitry design, the result could be 'functional' for the Discriminate mode, or the setting could make the GB mode too negative or too positive. It's important to know how your detector works to have the best workable settings.

Manual GB: Some detectors have used 10-Turn controls, 3¾-Turn controls, or 1-Turn controls. There have also been stacked, two-knob controls where one is a coarse-tune and the other a fine-tune control. There are also modern models that use a touchpad adjustment and have a broad, well defined GB with 5 or 10 steps between each GB phase number. Based upon the circuitry design, some detectors have a very touchy, coarse-tune Ground Balance while others might allow a more comfortable fine-tune setting. Often, the Manual GB will affect the GB setting for both the All Metal/Pinpoint mode as well as the motion-based Discriminate mode. On some modes, such as the Tesoro Cortés, Manual GB is only for the All Metal mode and the Discriminate model GB is internally Preset. It's important to know how the detector you use is designed.

Automated GB [size=small](aka 'Auto' GB)[/size]: This is a method where the detector reads the ground signal and electronically makes the necessary Ground Balance adjustments. Most using this method use a bobbing technique, pumping the search coils from about 6"-8" high done to about ½" and briskly raising it and continue pumping the coil until a stable GB is achieved. Most quality models can do this in 2 to 5 coil pumps over most ground. There are several examples of these that are still different in search operation, such as the Tesoro Lobo SuperTRAQ, Fisher F19, Teknetics Omega, White's MX5 and White's MXT All-Pro, and many other modern detectors. Some models use a toggle to select the Ground Balance procedure, others use a touchpad, often labeled Ground Grab. There are basically two types of Automated Ground Balance.

1.. Automated and Locked... Such as with a Teknetics Omega or Fisher F19 and other similar types, or the White's MXT, MXT All-Pro, M6 that have a toggle to let the operator 'Lock' the GB setting once it is achieved. All of these models have a provision to toggle or press a touch pad to Ground Grab and update the GB setting, if they've moved to different ground, and some even allow manual GB to override the Automated GB setting, if desired.

2.. Automated w/Automatic [size=small](Auto)[/size] Tracking ...Found on the Tesoro Lobo SuperTRAQ in All Metal mode, and many competitors models like the M6 and MXT All-Pro or MX5.

Is auto for only folks who like to keep it simple and not fine tune?

'Preset' GB is for folks who like it simple and perhaps just don't understand what Ground Balance is or the methods or times to adjust for it. Manual Ground Balance as well as any Automated GB with or without Auto-Tracking circuitry are probably better suited for the more avid detectorist who wants to learn more about how these things work, how to get the most performance out of them, and to be able to hunt a wide-range of ground mineral conditions. Personally, I like to have more control over my detector, for all search modes, so I prefer manual GB or a good Automated GB detector.

Oh, as for "fine tune," that isn't always achievable with a manual GB control because many/most detectors with a manual GB control [size=small](especially knob type potentiometers)[/size] are a bit too touchy and coarse. An example might be the original Tesoro Bandido or Bandido II compared with the Bandido II µMAX. The first two used a 10-turn GB control whereas the µMAX versions went to a 3¾-turn potentiometer. Combined with how they designed the circuitry, the latter design is touchier while the original concept was a little better to try and "fine tune."

What short comings if any does an auto ground balance have that one cannot do with a manual ground balance?

Both Automated GB and Manual GB can have their own strengths and shortcomings. Part is in how well the GB design is, how fast it works, how accurate it can be, and how it works with all search modes. Part also depends upon how well the operator understands how to manually adjust, how to use the automated system, and when to make a GB adjustment.

Would the Lobo's auto ground balance miss out on any type of certain situation?

Some Automated GB models that use an auto-tracking operation, like the Lobo SuperTRAQ, can have some problems if the ground mineral make-up shifts abruptly, with some hot rocks, with coal clinkers, or when encountering a lot of iron trash. I used to use a Lobo SuperTRAQ in 1999/2000 and in the All Metal mode which uses auto-tracking I only had problems in a few old town sites and a pioneer encampment in the All Metal mode where there was a lot of rusty tin and rusty nails. I had more troubles with the Discriminate mode, actually, because the fixed GB was not proper and there was a lot of falsing. I had that corrected when I stopped by Tesoro in Prescott and the technician tweaked two trimmers for the Disc. mode GB internally.

Some auto-tracking models will track too quickly to a lot of close-positioned ferrous targets and there can be a resulting impairment of performance. We can have other extremes, too, such as the Minelab American gold nugget detector where its auto-tracking circuitry would even adjust to 'balance' [size=small](or 'cancel' or 'ignore')[/size] a big US silver dollar!

I handled the Lobo today and I like it better than the Cortez, but it may not be as versatile.

I have owned both and used both and, personally, I find them BOTH to be "not as versatile" as a model that provides operator control over the Ground Balance for BOTH the All Metal and Discriminate modes.

The Tejon seems like another good option as I liked that one too.

I think at this point you need to really sit down and consider what you want to do. The type of hunting, the types of sites, what you're intending to find, and then take a time-out and do some reading and studying on the forums, read some god books, and learn more about what strengths and weaknesses many detector models can offer you. And don't forget that the detector doesn't have to be brand new, either. My Classic ID and Bandido II µMAX are both examples of discontinued detectors that can easily hold-their-own today and even out-hunt many new makes and models that are very expensive. It just depends on the challenges you will face at the sites

I guess I'm going to have to figure out what my needs will be.

Definitely a 'must-do.'

Initially the idea of pursuing gold seems like the top priority, but I do not meet many who actually find all that much.

If you are talking about finding raw gold, nuggets and such, then it will call for a lot of time to locate potential sites, ensure access availability, make sure you're not on someone's claim, then have the right detector and coil in hand and put in a LOT of time and effort. If you are referring to finding gold jewelry, it will be a lot easier as it is findable in parks, schools, sports fields, swimming holes, beaches, etc., etc. You will also have to learn to recover a lot of targets and not rely a lot on TID or VDI numeric read-outs to identify the target because gold jewelry reads all over the place

Is the Vaquero the best bang for the buck in all around use?

Nope, not in my opinion. The Vaquero was kind of a dumb design because it requires the operator to adjust the know out of the Discriminate mode and setting to activate the Threshold-based All Metal mode. Then the need to readjust back to a desired Disc. setting. I have owned a few Vaquero's and didn't like that design, not the thin, flimsy foam grips, or the low-tone audio. Field performance wasn't that good and I went back to a Bandido II µMAX.

Ground Balance is an interesting topic of discussion and learning, and I am still surprised at how many people getting into the hobby in more recent years seem to have less understanding about it than most who were active in the hobby in the mid-'70s to mid-'80s. In about a month, toward the end of October, I am going to be doing a day-long seminar over in the Portland, Oregon area. maybe you could find a way to make it in for that Saturday and we can all learn more as a group. You'll see what others are using or shopping for, see a lot of makes and models demonstrated and explained, and that might help you in your detector shopping.

Monte

 

[heavymetalbeeper]

Thanks Monte, I may have to make that seminar as I'm a few hours away. Do you recommend a good book on understanding the workings of detectors?