Bad Mineralization, Should I just have gotten an E-Trac instead?

[ryanchappell]

I can't seem to find anything deeper that 4 inches around here and have not found any silver coins at all. I live in a city known for its iron ore on the southern reaches of the Appalachians. They are more like hills around here, but I see iron ore, magnetite, and red clay all the time. I have come across BB sized and larges rocks that stick to magnets.

I usually ground balance to about a 4, but it varies to 12, on my ML x305. I am trying a 6in DD coil.

Are there settings I need to change? I have tried 3-10 on sensitivity, and usually keep threshold around 10, but have tried -5-20. I have migrated away from parks, despite finding a 1889 IH, at 4 inches, because I am thinking these have been worked over, and only have deep silver left. I am now trying curbsides, and found a 1917 cent on the surface at one prime site.

I am beginning to think that if you live where I do an E-Trac might be mandatory.

 

[Digger]

If you have iron ore deposits and rocks that stick to magnets, then you have some very difficult soil conditions for any metal detector. What kind of "depth" do you get with air testing the same coil? More than 4-inches? Should you have gotten an E-TRAC? I guess it would depend on how much of an investment you are willing to make. The E-TRAC lists for $1895.00. Your X-TERRA 305 lists for $495.00. Seems like quite a difference in cost to make any direct comparisons or second guessing yourself. I'd imagine if you wanted to upgrade to an E-TRAC, any of the dealers posting ads on this forum would offer a trade-in.

In my opinion, you are on the right track by varying your settings. But keep in mind that you are looking for a combination of settings, not just one magic bullet. Not finding coins at depths of more than 4-inches indicates one of three things.......either you're not passing your coil over them, your detector is not set up properly or they're just not there. As to not finding silver coins, based on having done this for nearly 40 years, some hunts are like that. But if you're finding IH cents, keep in mind that silver coins were minted for another 55 years after the IH cents were discontinued. Contrary to what some folks believe, those of us who have hunted for decades did not cherry pick the silver. Frankly, we didn't have the technology available to us back then to tell the difference. It was a pretty simple concept.......when it beeped...... we dug. Since the advent of VLF's with notch discrimination, I can't tell you the number of times I've dug a great target that didn't read as a silver coin.

My first suggestion would be to make yourself a test plot in your yard. Take a variety of targets and bury them in your yard. Bury them at varying depths and make a map of what you built. The soil / target relationship will change as years go by. But even on freshly buried targets, you should be able to find the right combination to improve your chances in the field.

Settings..........hold the coil flat at waist height and set the best NC channel. Then, still holding the coil at waist height, set your Threshold so it is just barely audible. If you're not using headphones, I'd encourage you to get a pair. Once you have the right NC and Threshold settings, turn your Sensitivity to 5 and ground balance your detector in ALL Metal mode with multiple tones. Make sure there is nothing metallic under the coil when you GB. After you get the proper GB setting, raise the Sensitivity one click at a time, until it becomes a bit chattery as you sweep the coil. Then turn it down a click. Don't just set your ground phase and hunt all day. Check it every 10 minutes or so, to get a feel of how quickly the ground conditions change. Make sure you monitor the noise levels to determine if you need to select a different noise cancel channel. Although having your NC off a bit shouldn't directly effect the depth of detection, it can cover up the audio response of the more deeply buried targets. Monitor the false signals to determine if your Sensitivity is not bouncing signals back from the soil. If you want to discriminate out some of the notches, be aware that those rejected targets will cause the Threshold to blank out. Personally, I'd rather hear the target response of everything the coil passes over, and let my ears sort it out. I'd rather wade through a patch of low tones from ferrous targets than have the detector constantly nulling out. And lastly, S L O W down your sweep. If your detector has to analyze highly mineralized soil conditions, give it time to process all the information. 3 -4 seconds per sweep is not impractical for the X-305 or the E-TRAC. JMHO HH Randy

 

[ryanchappell]

Thanks for the help.

I have tried a lot if not all of those suggestions. I started slowing my swing after reading one of your articles months ago.

On the noise cancel. I really have not seen any noise holding the coil waist high. I have noticed that the unit ground balances "better" on -1, meaning that it is usually silent when balanced. Maybe I could try 0 or 1 a little more and see if it helps.

 

[David]

Or get a less expensive Sovereign GT(BBS), Safari(FBS) or Whites TDI Pro(a PI unit that has high and low tone discrimination to tell silver from iron) for that higher iron mineralization. I also heard the Tesoro Lobo ST is also good in bad soils with about 1.5 discrimination on the dial, and the new Garrett AT Pro claims good iron handling with High-Resolution iron discrimination and Iron Audio:Advanced Iron Identification which will help knock out both iron soils along with iron trash handling.

 

[Mtnmn]

See if your XT-305 will bench air test a quarter out to about 10" with the stock coil, if so it is probably working fine and you may need to go to one of the various multi-freq. machines to get better results. The dedicated gold detectors are supposed to work the best in bad mineral conditions and there are some that people are using for coin shooting, but you would have to research them to find out which one would be the best for that purpose. Good Luck!

 

[goldseeker4000]

perhaps if you are not satisfied with results after what you try that digger told you to try then you might want to upgrade to a X-terra 705. I have no problem ground balancing. and you have many options to get it to ground balance if soil is really bad like beach mode and ground balance offset. you will need the 3 khz coil for silver to have the best luck, as Digger has said before. I am very satisfied with my 705 and have learned so much with it and how to operate it. I can pull coins out of holes right next to iron trash. I have done this many times now.

 

[ryanchappell]

My 305 ground balances, it is just that all the good coins must be hidden 5+ inches down in the abyss that is our soil down here. Goldseeker where do you live? This must be the worst place in the world for detecting. Red clay and iron ore. If you don't live somewhere similar then you just don't understand.

 

[Terra1959]

I have both and love both
The ET is a beauty in the hostile mineralised ground, if set properly it is quiet and stable
I used it today at such a site and was digging tiny pistol percussion caps way down over 12"
As Digger said though, theres quite a price difference

T59

 

[ryanchappell]

tiny pistol percussion caps at 12 inches
T59

Dang those are brass, not much bigger than BBs, and like finding tiny Indian head pennies. What do they register as on the E Trac? 13-20?

So say I am sweeping a trail that is on an abandon rail bed that hasn't been used since the end of the civil war. The bed is raised and paved with porous iron slag. My 305 just low tones steadily, until it hits a piece of Iron rails and then it tells me that the iron is a quarter or dime, or coin with a high tone reading a 36 -44, but it is a gigantic piece of Iron too big to dig up let alone carry for miles.

What would that be like with an ETrac? How would you set it? TTF? Could it find a silver or gold coin laying in this porous iron slag?

 

[Terra1959]

Hi Ryan

sorry for the slow reply...Mothers Day got in the way
They came in at 12.14...not sure if they are brass or copper (they look a bit like copper to me)
I presume the low conductive 14 number is because of their tiny size and mass

I cannot say how the ET would go around rail lines as I have no experience with them but my gut tells me the ET would be good
TTF would work well there I think
You set your Disc. pattern (if any) ...I just blank out the lower few lines
Go to Audio / Tones /and set it to 2
Noise Cancel b4 you start swinging and the Et's auto GB takes care of mineralisation changes

There are quite a few articles on sets in TTF in the Etrac forum here in Findmall ...guys like Gaz and our old friend Goesforever have it TTF well sorted ou
targets commonly come up with iron alongside them - so the ET will tell you if gold or silver lies alongside iron (if used and set correctly)
Best of luck

T59

 

[ryanchappell]

Thanks. The rail bed has the ties and rails removed or buried, and no longer looks like a railroad track. It has more than a foot of porous iron slag near its surface, and a few inches of dirt on top of that.

I plan to go back, and concentrate former home, ghost town, and industrial structures that I will way point on my trail GPS. Last time I could not nail down a good site.

I will probably get an E-Trac soon.

 

[Woodchuck]

305 won't work well in high mineralization,I found out hard way i unloaded mine quick, but shhhush about it you will get certain people upset

 

[ryanchappell]

I have both and love both
The ET is a beauty in the hostile mineralised ground, if set properly it is quiet and stable
I used it today at such a site and was digging tiny pistol percussion caps way down over 12"
As Digger said though, theres quite a price difference
T59

I received an E-Trac last Thursday. I am finding it to be a large improvement over the xt305. I am comparing the 305 to a slower more expensive version of the Fisher F2, since the ground balance does not afford it mineralized ground seeing ability. I do like its slimness and light weight, as well as the large serious shiftness of the E-Trac, it is like comparing the Enterprise to one of its shuttle ships.

It has improved depth, as I am finding dimes at 7 inches, compared to 4 inches with the 305.

What setting do you like to use I was at the site of the first settling in the area dating 1820s, where the original town center was. Now it is a overridden tot lot with basketball courts, and an abandon former high school turned into a former elementary schoo.

I found $2.00 in clad, and two wheats one whose date could not be read. I tried several settings, including one with deep on, that allowed me to recover a 1993 dime at a depth of 7 inches.

I got real tired of the soil being seen as a metalic object with my propointer. Just dig a hole and once it is deep enough the hole itself makes the propointer beep. Grab a handfull with enough hot pebbles and the soil in your hand beeps, if you are lucky you could waste time isolating the culprit pebbles.


Terra, what settings are best for such a place littered with deep nails and shallow 1-4 inch can slaw and pull tabs.

I used a mask like disc pattern for all Iron 28 and above. (should I disc some 1,10-30 for roll back or 1-27,50
Normal sounds
Thresh 27
gain 24
deep on
fast off
trash high

Any recommendations?