Bottle caps and tabs-any results with Racer or CoRe?

[TabWhisperer]

Has anyone noticed how these machines handle the bottle caps and can tabs? Any differences in the standard or small coils? I know with some machines you can walk the coil off the target and get a iron grunt on the coil edge on caps. Tabs would usually jump around on the ID.

 

[JFlynn]

What I do know running the CoRe, there are crown caps everywhere that's been dug by other machines. They do not lock on like a coin or button at all. I do not dig them. Most of the time they sound like what they are, ferrous. Aluminum screw caps, modern, they sound ok but hollow to my ears for a lack of better words again. I very seldom dig them, they are everywhere. They don't sound like a good "metal" target. They will overload the machine too at a couple or more inches. Pulltabs, they do not lock like a coin. Now, what I will dig for whatever reason, a couple or so a hunt. A mashed flat crown cap. Flat as a coin flat. Sounds good, ID's great, gets dug.

 

[D&P-OR]

Jack-------Glad you mentioned the "overload" on the CoRe (and Racer) as it is a question I have had in my mind for some time on those machines.-------From what I understand about both of those detectors---as they are very sensitive & overload on surface targets very easily.-------Do they overload on surface coins excessively as well as (some) trash targets?-----I guess another way to put it & ask you about----is the detector overloading on surface (shallow) targets a problem in the actual hunt?-------Thanks-----------Del

What I do know running the CoRe, there are crown caps everywhere that's been dug by other machines. They do not lock on like a coin or button at all. I do not dig them. Most of the time they sound like what they are, ferrous. Aluminum screw caps, modern, they sound ok but hollow to my ears for a lack of better words again. I very seldom dig them, they are everywhere. They don't sound like a good "metal" target. They will overload the machine too at a couple or more inches. Pulltabs, they do not lock like a coin. Now, what I will dig for whatever reason, a couple or so a hunt. A mashed flat crown cap. Flat as a coin flat. Sounds good, ID's great, gets dug.

 

[JFlynn]

Del they will overload on anything metal really quick, really sensitive, small coil is super sensitive, if you rub the coil on a gum wrapper it will do it. It will become second nature quick when you overload to just raise the coil slightly, couple of inches to hear what overloaded it. Coins at 1 inch will do the same. For whatever reason an aluminum screw cap will overload at a couple maybe slightly more inches, might be surface area idk. That's a good thing to me. If I pop out a plug and it overloads when I scan the plug it will most likely be a screw cap. However they sound different also. The overloading is not a problem for me at all. Actually probably 90% is iron, nails, and such. I don't mind the CoRe overload sound but the Racer has a different siren like sound like evacuate or something, danger danger Dr. Smith Lost in Space kinda sound................

 

[targets]

but is the TID any use here ?as well as audio

 

[JFlynn]

but is the TID any use here ?as well as audio

Audio is great once you learn it, you can detect with your eye's closed, DI3, 3 tone. I might add use an excellent set of headphones. TID................. I'll say this, ran a bunch of ML's, better than their machines. Even in heavy trash, really heavy trash. It locks on like a tick on a bloodhound.............

 

[JimmyCT]

Do you find you lose depth in 3 tone? I remember reading (possibly in the manual) that the user loses depth switching to DI3.



lol I like your analogy about the tick.

but is the TID any use here ?as well as audio

Audio is great once you learn it, you can detect with your eye's closed, DI3, 3 tone. I might add use an excellent set of headphones. TID................. I'll say this, ran a bunch of ML's, better than their machines. Even in heavy trash, really heavy trash. It locks on like a tick on a bloodhound.............[/quote]

 

[TabWhisperer]

Here is some information on the DI3 mode. So far the feedback sounds like caps and tabs are manageable. Nice.

http://www.findmall.com/read.php?100,2151851,2151871#msg-2151871

 

[JimmyCT]

Thank you TabWhisperer!

Hello all! We got a few requests from customers to increase the depth on the RACER in the 3- tone mode. The depth difference between the 2-tone and 3-tone modes were designed that way on purpose. However, after reading Tom's review and getting a few requests, we decided to make the following change: At the start up settings of the device (Gain 70) , there is no change meaning there will still be a difference in depth between the 2-tone and 3-tone modes. As you start increasing the gain, you will start seeing minimal increases in depth (Gain 70 -90) and once you hit the maximum gain levels (90-99) the depth will start getting very close to the 2-tone levels at the same gain settings (90-99) without sacrificing stability.

 

[TabWhisperer]

I think that was the primary reason for the Racer delayed deliveries. Initially there was the problem with some weak sub-standard coil bolts and they were going to toss in a known good bolt into each box. No big deal there. But I believe this DI3 depth issue (from feedback) meant having to re-adjust units already produced prior to shipping. That is why bottom line I don't have an issue with the delay of my Racer delivery. It wasn't really a "defect" but something they agreed to adjust after trial units were sent out. Nice touch in their customer focus.

 

[Monte]

Has anyone noticed how these machines handle the bottle caps and can tabs?

The difference between these trash targets are that Bottle Caps are magnetic or ferrous-based metal targets and ring-type Pull-tabs, and modern rectangular Pry-Tabs, are of non-ferrous material.

Any differences in the standard or small coils?

All of the search coils handle them in a 'typical' manner as other Double-D coil designs. Bottle Caps can be 'classified' by using techniques I have used since '71, instructed customers and friends since the mid-70's and taught in seminars since '81. I coined two terms for these techniques, "Quick-Out" and "EPR" [size=small](for "Edge-Pass Rejection")[/size] decades ago. I describe these techniques in the Audio Target Classification topic under Tips & Techniques on the AHRPS org site.

I know with some machines you can walk the coil off the target and get a iron grunt on the coil edge on caps.

At times, you will have some ferrous type Bottle Caps [size=small](not to be confused with the taller aluminum Screw Cap)[/size] that will 'Lock-On' with a reasonably good TID reading close to a Penny/Dime or Quarter range a little easier with a Concentric coil than a Double-D. The Double-D design might be a bit inconsistent with a center-of-axis coil sweep. However, using an 'EPR' technique, most Bottle Caps will then respond with a 'proper' audio and visual response to indicate their Iron based composition.

With most Concentric search coils, the 'Edge' reference is about ½" to 1" in toward the center from the outer edge of the search coil. With most Double-D designs, however, the 'Edge-Pass' point is from about the physical edge of the coil, from the edge out to about ½" to 1" or more away from the tip edge. A lot will depend upon the depth [size=small](coil-to-target)[/size] of the Bottle Cap, and the Sensitivity setting used, as well as the search coil size in use.

Tabs would usually jump around on the ID.

Pull Tabs and Pry Tabs might lock-on at times, or they might be jumpier, all depending upon the taps physical size, condition ([size=small]with or without the 'beaver tail')[/size] and position in the ground. The older type PT's will tend to read all over the place. I just finished a week-long trip to a few old town sites and some had been used by scout groups for camping going back to the early '80s. That and other camping activity left a wide array of ring-type Pull-Tabs to deal with, and with the Racer and smallest coil and stock coil, the TID's ranged from '51' to '68', and if swept from opposing directions I would usually get a more inconsistent read-out.

By the way, in the trashier conditions I am favoring the 3-Tone [size=small](Racer)[/size] or DI3 [size=small](FORS CoRe)[/size] search modes and with either model I can run at a Sensitivity of '50' to '70' and do pretty well, but if the trash content is a little lower then I bump it to '85' to '99,' if virtually trash-free. If too trashy, I have operated with the Sensitivity in the '10' to '30' range and they both worked quite well.

In the locations with minimal trash targets, I like the 2-Tone or DI2 search modes. This mode is a little 'hotter' or more sensitive than the 3-Tone mode. However, if you look back at some of the Nokta/Makro posts made by Dilek, she mentioned that prior to the Racer release they were enhancing the 3-Tone search mode to be a little more sensitive, somewhat like the 2-Tone VCO based search mode.

Anyone, with either the FORS CoRe or Racer, only needs to be patient and put in the time to really learn these detectors and they will be more than satisfied with their investment.

Monte