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Button Help Please.

fyrffytr1

Well-known member
I am posting this for a friend. It is a 1 piece button with the backmark of "Firmin & Sons 153 Strand London" I cannot figure out the obverse. Why would a porcupine be chasing an alligator or crocodile with a banner over its head. Any and all help is greatly appreciated.
 

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By the backmark, it is a British button produced somewhere around 1875

 
Thanks for the reply. I did some research that has shown that the backmark was used from 1824-1826 and again from 1839-1875. This is from Warren K. Tices "Dating Buttons". I just wish I knew what the design on the front means. Could it be political? A porcupine and an alligator/crocodile with a banner over it is not a common design.
 
Sorry I laughed, seemed a strange pair an alligator and a porcupine,,, can't make out the writing on the banner.

Appears there is a crested porcupine that lives in africa... it does not climb trees, but can swim. It looks like the porcupine on your button.
No alligators in africa, but there are crocodiles that are listed as predators of the crested porcupine. The african crested porcupine will defend itself and attack preditors with those quills and have been known to kill lions, leopard, hyenas, and humans.

Also a link here.... crocodile and crested porcupine in India


Sounds like the makings of a good story, the porcupine and the crocodile, with a possible link to Africa or India... both parts of the British Empire in the mid 1800's

Porcupine Lion High Resolution Stock Photography and Images - Alamy
 
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I was told, on another site that it is a livery button but rare in that it represents two houses of British nobility. Maybe two houses joined through marriage. I found a livery button with a porcupine on it but not one with an alligator/crocodile. I am pretty sure this button was found in England.
 
Below is a family crest granted to William Speke ((1798–1887) in honour of his son John Hanning Speke's (1827–1864) discovery of the source of the Nile, granted after his son's death. It is a representation of flowing water superinscribed with the word Nile, with crocodile and a hippopotamus and on top a crocodile and a porcupine.

Very hard to make out, but I can almost see it... by any chance is the word in the banner on your button "NILE"? If so, the button may be a derivative of the Speke family crest.

From A treatise on Heraldry, British and Foreign

Screen Shot 2021-03-30 at 12.20.16 AM.pngScreen Shot 2021-03-30 at 12.20.53 AM.png



speke.jpg
speke.jpg
 
Yep... William Speke of Jordans, Coat of Arms
Screen Shot 2021-03-30 at 12.52.35 AM.png
 
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For comparison, button and family crest. The Speke crest was unique with the word NILE included, not a common thing with family heraldry.
Sure looks like the word NILE in the banner on the button as well. Even the bars under the croc and the porcupine are similar, 6 segments under each. I'd guess the guy laying out the button for Firmin & Sons was working directly from this crest.


!!!porc_croc.jpg


As for the crocodile and the porcupine, John Hanning Speke wrote an account of his exploration in Africa in search of the source of the Nile River. In it he has many entries about the crocodiles encountered. As well, the porcupines, which were considered a delicacy by his native guides and became a main part of their diet along the way.


 
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I get almost as much enjoyment out of identifying something as finding it.
I agree, and I really geek out on the historical maps, aerial photograph and historical accounts. It's just such a fun hobby, and it's also gotten me out into the deep woods off-trail appreciating and learning about nature much more, thinking about how challenging life was for people back then, etc. It opens up a whole new perspective and it's weird how sometimes things that caught your interest in history years ago when you were a kid in school will end up actually wind up being one of your finds or related to one of your finds.
 
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