Can someone(s) here please do the following air test with their Racer:

[Tom_in_CA]

A buddy of mine just shelled out to get this "latest greatest" Racer. I ribbed him for awhile, saying that it was all just "latest greatest" hype, that accompanies any new machine that comes on the market. But within a year, they're all just ho-hum normal machines. Not as capable of super-human feats that all the initial rumor-mill-buzz scpeculated about !

And when you look back at the history of the internet forums, for each time a new "latest greatest" was introduced, they were also accompanied by bullet-proof videos, testimonials, blah blah . But in time, they'd fall into a regular class of detectors, nothing super human afterall. Doh!

While I recognize that someone can 'diss air tests , and say they serve no purpose, yet I disagree with that. They are beneficial in knowing a capability. For example: if you can perform a test in the air (for depth, or masking, or whatever), then at least you have a "fighting chance" to replicate that same feat in the ground, eh ?

So with this in mind, can a couple of you do the following air tests, and report back your results:

a) set the machine's disc. to *just* knock out finger-long sized rusty nail. So for this test, we will not be using the full-spectrum tones (where the user relies on his ears to discern iron versus a conductive trying to peak through). I'm assuming the Racer can be set to do this, right? Where you can elect to have iron null out, rather than give a tone ?

b) Then take a dime, and hold it behind that nail. Wave it. Does the racer still null ? Or is the target combination now strong enough to up it into the accepted range now ? Yes I realize it's not going to give a "dime" TID, of course. But is it enough to cause the machine to get a positive signal ?

c) Now try the same test with 2 nails over a dime (making sure that the disc. setting is *just* enough to knock out those 2 nails, when detected held together).

d) try the test with the dime held touching the nail(s), versus separated by a finger's width. Any difference ?

Note: I ask that this test be done with the nails to be a "null" (silence) , rather than the full-tone ID. So that there can be NO MISTAKE on whether or not it's truly bumping up the signal enough to over-ride the iron. Because it's far-too-easy, when relying on supposed differences in tones, to say "I'd recognize that something is hiding amidst iron". When, in fact, when you get into the actual field, it turns out that those same squeeks and squaks are HEARD EVERYWHERE. Doh! Not that I wouldn't hunt in full-tone-ID mind you. But just that for air-purpose testing, there can be no mistake of judgement calls of what constitutes a signal, versus what doesn't.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Next Racer air test please:

This would be for applications where someone is, perhaps, getting ready to hunt under grandstand bleachers, or junky parks where they're going to angle just for high conductors amidst a sea of tabs and foil:

a) Set the Racer to *just* knock out round full tabs w/beaver tails intact. Such that it nulls (hence we're not going to try to rely on ears for this either).

b) Now holding a dime behind a tab, does this cause the Racer to bump up the TID, to the point where you now get a signal ? Granted, it won't be a "dime" TID, but .... positive above the tab setting, none-the-less.

c) try the test with both dime touching the tab, versus held a finger-width's space.

d) try the test with 2 tabs covering the dime (first making sure that 2 tabs, with no coins, are disc'd out nulling).

e) Do the test with both small coil, and large.

thanx! Tom

 

[Southwind]

And when you look back at the history of the internet forums, for each time a new "latest greatest" was introduced, they were also accompanied by bullet-proof videos, testimonials, blah blah . But in time, they'd fall into a regular class of detectors, nothing super human afterall. Doh!

Hum, you obviously use a different Internet than I do LOL. AT Pro, Deus, CTX, need I go on?

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Not sure what you're getting at southwind. Are you saying that the "human nature hype" doesn't at all happen ? Look back at the various introductions of new machines, where "everyone had to go out and get one". They promised to be the cat's meow on every conceivable task (depth, masking, separation, low & high conductors, bad soil, etc...). And would be filled with testimonials, videos, etc.... And sure: each one, to-this-day, "had their place" in the market. And not saying they were each *bad* machines. But just saying that 90% of the intitial hypes always turned out to be just that: "hype".

Have you not seen this phenomonom ?

Or let me guess: The racer is in a league above all those past hypes, right ? That none of that past psychology routines now applies ?

 

[squirrel1]

Well now let's see.
First price. You can't argue the Racer is at the top of the food chain with price can you???
Separation- it separates better than units costing hundreds of $$$ more dough. Can't argue with that one either.
Remember there was test/video done by detectorists released to the public, these tests/videos weren't done by the manufacturer. Also the maker of the Racer representative has been on this forum and others.
Did they ever brag or make statements saying the Racer is the end all detector??Nope
Have folks using the Racer detector in the field reported finds when hunting in trash/iron/iron bits where other supposedly top-notched detectors have been??Yep Is the Racer a perfect detector overall? Nope
Is the Racer detector for everyone and or will it satisfy their hunting sites/style?? Nope Will some folks enjoy their Racer detectors and in doing so make some greatr finds? Yep
What is the other alternative besides the Nokta CoRe unit for the performance/features/price??? I don't know of any currently.

 

[Southwind]

Have you not seen this phenomonom ?

No I haven't. What I have seen is your typical retail pitches. Just like any new car released on the market you see all the commercials talking up the good points. What would you expect? They aren't going to say "Here we have another typical nothing special detector for your consideration." Ask Minelab how that's working out on that new Go-Find? I see added features/options/benefits on each one of these new machines. I think we can all pretty much give the AT Pro a hand for putting great performance and water proof at a reasonable price, The Deus for lightning fast response and nice features in the most well designed package, The CTX for the ability to be fully submerged and see and analyze multiple targets under the coil at the same time. And the Racer. The first hearing impaired machine on the market as well as topshelf performance and iron see-through at a price anyone can afford. While you personally may not benefit from any of these I'm sure there are many that do.

Don't forget, each time a machine like the AT Pro or Racer hits the market it challenges the other manufacturers to not only meet but exceed those models. It only gets better for the consumer.

And don't forget you're asking a guy who almost craped himself when VLF Discrimination hit the market. Often it doesn't take much to make big changes in the industry.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Have you not seen this phenomonom ?

No I haven't. ...

Well then you don't know what I'm referring to then. For example (don't get "lost in the example"), if you were to look at archives from the late 1990s, when the Shadow X2 came out, it was just the same types of "latest greatest". And no, it wasn't manufacturer sales pitches. It was from rank & file hunters like us, detailing how they were scoring targets in worked out sites, deeper than anything ever blah blah. Then the x5 went through the same hype. I could list 5 or 6 other machines from different makers, that went through the same internet evolution. And now, we look backwards, and we can kind of chuckle knowing that .... well .... they're just regular detectors.

Not saying that this Racer doesn't defy that, and the "hype" isn't well-justified. PERHAPS IT IS ! Because I too was there at the advent of VLF disc. (1978 to 1980-ish), and you're right: Those that didn't make the switch early on, got "left out". It truly *was* the latest greatest, and yes: TR disc. quickly became a dinasour. Doh! So in *that* case , the "latest greatest" did turn out to be true. But there's scores more cases where history shows it was/is only "hype" by us zealous md'rs eager to latch on to anything that gives us an edge.

 

[HaroldILL.]

Hey Southwind,If the racer is all that and a bag of chips then how come you sold your's so fast? What up with that?

 

[JFlynn]

Tom go ahead and get one, dayum good machine. No trick ponies and clowns just a detector doing stuff others can't at a very good price. The build on the machines should put most all detector companies on alert. Amazing compared to the toy like detectors build wise a lot of the companies are pushing.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

C'mon guys, if this is a forum section "filled with maro racer users" (as the title of the forum section suggests), then why can't I get anyone to try these tests?

Afterall, if this is supposed to be the "cat's meow" at iron-ridden sites, let's see how it performs in the air-test I am seeking.

 

[Albert]

Hi Tom, I should have the racer thurs. I will do the test for both scenarios and let everyone know how it went.

 

[squirrel1]

Tom,
I have a Nokta CoRE and Racer. I read your request with the air test. First and foremost to get the absolute most out of the Racer detector in the separation department you are going to have to hear a bunch or iron tones and tone created by nonferrous. 3tone produces a midtone that 2 tone doesn't. Now you can crank up the ID filter setting on the Racer. Sure it will quiet the machine down. But here's what you run into. First you will lose depth depending on how high you set the ID filter. You will also cause the Racer to lose it separating abilities. As you raise ID filter let's say a nickel beside a 12 penny nail. With ID filter at 10 the nickel will sound off loud and clear and longer. You start raising ID filter the nickel tone will start getting shorter and shorter. As a matter a fact depending on how close the nickel is to the nail, the nickel may disappear altogether if the ID filter is raised far enough. I will post this video. This video shows where the ID filter is raised to get rid if the big nail, and the Racer doesn't see the ring. I wish the op would have backed the ID filter off and tried. I know the ring would have rung up. And Tom the second video talks about the Nokta CoRe unit. It works very similar to Racer. It shows and actual test of what effects raising the ID mask/filter will do/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=vV6xNXKYaD0&app=desktop
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcf1GHCtGYQ&list=PLSiKTLIMTqYSh1IGkqxjBOEtSN1BN-J_x&index=2

 

[Bill_S]

Here is a real short video with the small coil of what you were asking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGolkW0avBw

 

[Keith Southern]

Does your buddy not have the machine yet??

Keith

 

[squirrel1]

Jack, you're killing me!!!LMAO
"No trick ponies and clowns "
Might as well go ahead and add "no smoke and mirrors"

 

[iqwozpoom]

I believe in the video vs the vista gold, the vista gold has a v brake and iron audio. If I'm not mistaken. Also with the dd coils one coin will give 3 beeps. Edge, center, edge. Turn a machine on max with a small coil close like that, the irons gonna hit till the coil passes.
Really you should try the makro out when your buddy gets his. The menu IS the cats meow! Some of the other companies are going to take notes. Even though an intuitive interface should be obvious. I'm really enjoying mine. It's great having three or four different search processes set up when going from field to trash to whatever's local. Quick setup to boot.
PS no overload issues, plenty of power just know when to tone it down.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

great links. Thanx. On the 2nd video:

1) He show the nails solo (so the viewer knows what nails alone sound like)

2) Then he shows what the coins (on edge mind you), sound like with full audio tone-ID (ie.: nails give grunts or whatever)

3) Then he shows what the sound is like if someone elected to have the nails nulled out !

My observations are as follows:

a) I could still hear the dime and the nickel in each method. So to me, that was a helpful comparison, to know-for-sure that I'm not about to be fooled. Ie.: the fact that he could get a signal at all (while nulling the nails) was tell-tale.

b) However, the test still was one of separation. It was not a tests where he'd covered a coin with a nail. Still commendable no less, when you factor in that the coins were on edge.

As for the FIRST video ? That too didn't have a coin-under-a-nail. And, well .... that also didn't seem to be complimentary to the Racer for the test he did, Now does it ? Doh!

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Yes. He got it. And he's going to be tuning into this thread. And yes, doing tests of his own too.

He might be bringing it down to my area this coming Saturday. To take to a certain iron-zone stage-stop type area, that's turned up reales, seateds, buttons, etc.... I've worked it for 20 yrs now. All the targets in the periperhies (where less iron exists and 4-star signals were easier to harvest) have been totally worked out. About the only conductive signals left to try to angle for, are in this one zone where it was always the most iron-ridden (a blanket of nails & iron in a 50' x 50' area). So just to get a rivot or pistol ball anymore, from this zone, is a testament to a machine's abillity (since every machine known to man has pounded this zone).

If he comes, it'll be pitted against a Minelab x-terra 705. We'll report back to the forumites here as to the flagged-target-results.

 

[TallTom]

Good video, Bill. Thanks. You didn't do all the testcases that Tom in CA requested,
but you did some of them. I'll be curious if the tests turn out different if you add the
test that puts a space between the dime and the masking objects (nails and round pulltabs)
by putting your finger between them. Also, will the 11" coil give the same
results as your tests with the 5" coil?

The various test combinations are endless, but I find that I'm interested in
all of them.

Again, thanks for doing the video, Bill !

--Tom (in California, but not Tom_in_CA)

 

[Bill_S]

I guess I did not see the part about putting a space between the objects. I will try that and see how it turns out.