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Changes in tesoro catalog: Vaquero has ED 120

BarberBill said:
Personally, I don't have a problem with the ED 120 which is what most of my detectors are. They seem to scream loudly on iron with any size such as old axe heads, horseshoes etc. and I've dug plenty of square nails at old home sites, so I don't think I'm missing anything I'd care about.
BB

I prefer a ED-120 over a ED-180. I don't care to dig small nails.

Also, the discrimination dial range is more spread out on the ED-120. I can get really precise with the ED-120.

There's a chart somewhere that shows the differences. The pie shapes are narrower and broader depending on the ED type. Heck, I can't find it.

It may just be me, but it seems to me that a ED-120 runs better in iron than the ED-180 does.

Can someone explain to me why a ED-180 is better than a ED-165. And when would that extra ED-15 be really needed and come in handy.

tabman
 
If I understand the concept correctly, and I'm not certain I do, the ED180 gives the most acceptance of any kinds of metal in the disc. circuit when set at 0. The smaller numbers not quite so much so. However, I do believe that any of the machines with a true all metal setting will pick up all targets that should be recognized? At any rate, I once dug the head from a horse shoe nail from 6 - 7 inches using a Silver Sabre umax with little or no discrimination set and sensitivity at 10. That's a pretty small piece of iron at that depth so I'm not worried about missing anythng smaller, fact is, in some trashy areas i've wished for less performance on small targets.
BB
 
I hate to ask this but can some descirbe a bit what ED120 and ED180 actually mean and how it is useful? I saw the charts, so I understand in principle one has a broader scale but what are we exactly referring to? Sorry for the ignorance on my part.
 
homebre said:
I hate to ask this but can some descirbe a bit what ED120 and ED180 actually mean and how it is useful? I saw the charts, so I understand in principle one has a broader scale but what are we exactly referring to? Sorry for the ignorance on my part.

There's no ignorance on your part homebre...that is where this post was heading I guess. I do not have the answer to your question, but i'm sure people will chime in
 
homebre said:
I hate to ask this but can some descirbe a bit what ED120 and ED180 actually mean and how it is useful? I saw the charts, so I understand in principle one has a broader scale but what are we exactly referring to? Sorry for the ignorance on my part.
It is just two types of discrimination circuits that are used on the different tesoro models,that's all.The ed-120 has some low level discrimination built into the circuit.Were the ed-180 has the full range .Meaning it can really hunt for all micro small metals including small iron such as nails while in the disc mode.Some say the ed-120 runs smoother. :-*
 
I'm thinking we'll never see a discrimination circuit in my lifetime that will be as accurate as our eyes.
BB
 
Instead of numbers.You go by ranges.You set the low end of the range you want and hit the button to store the low setting range.Then you turn the disc to the higher selected range and hit the hold button.Then you will only detect targets in the set range area.Then if you want to hunt in two different ranges you repeat this action.Or three ranges etc.Hunting in ranges makes more sense to me than by numbers. :O A new type of discrimination circuit.Even i could design that, if i tried hard enough.I will call it range discrimination! The detector does not have to be totally digital either.All that would be needed is the right micro processor.And a button to store the hold positions.You hunt the nickel and coin range with no worries.I will demo how this will work with the tejon.With the dual disc on the tejon,i can dig nothing but nickels with hardly any trash using this range method.Really the engineers should think about this. o_O
 
Sounds like a variation on notch disc that is already available on some detractors to me.
BB
 
Actually, several of the competition's models let you set several ranges of discrimination at the same time. They're set up with push button selection for which targets to accept or not and don't have continually variable discrimination like the Tesoro knobs offer. I once had a green machine that offered that and have a black machine in the stable that does that, currently. For me, I haven't found the feature to be much better in the field than thumbing the disc knob up and down over a target. Just my thoughts.
BB
 
What i really meant to say is you said it was not ed 180.I remember you saying this?I think you said it was between 120-180.Something between this right? Or are you saying incorrect about something else? :confused:
 
That's the part that's confusing because when e speak of Discrimination, we are addressing the ability to reject unwanted junk. However, when we are describing the range used fr the Disc. circuitry, such as ED-120 or ED-180, it is more directly describing the amount of [acceptance[/u of the Disc. range above the rejection point. The terms ED-120 and ED-180 were put into active use by Tesoro's originator, Jack Gifford. An easy-to-explain or understand description of the terms was explained to m back in '87 by John Earle, the design engineer at Compass Electronics, where I worked at the time, who is now with White's.

Bobby s said:
So I saw a post on another forum where someone got a new tesoro catalog when they got their detector back. From what he was saying the cibola and vaquero are now listed as having ED 120. It doesn't bother me a whole lot because I've learned to deal with how my Vaquero discriminates, but it's kind of upsetting that they advertised it before as having ED 180 if it really doesn't. If what he's saying is true that is.
First, as others have explained, such events are often a misprint. This can happen with any manufacturer as they copy a catalog or Owner's Manual of on model in making another and it is over-looked, and/or not properly edited.

A Second thing that can happen is that whoever wrote the original copy to describe a model didn't know or confirm what they were writing for the person to do he final manual or flyer, so from the start the description can be incorrect. In this case, with the Vaquero and Cibola models, they were advertised as having an ED-180 range of acceptance, when adjusted to their minimum Disc. setting, bu they didn't, so that was a Tesoro error from the get-go. The do accept more lower-conductive targets than an ED-120 range model would accept, bu they do not adjust to a full-range of acceptance, better known as a true 'zero' rejection or an all metal accept setting.

Note that simple description of a TRUE ED-180 Disc. range detector. When set at the [i[]minimum
[/i] Discrimination level, they are a true All Metal Accept setting, or you could say a true Zero Discriminate setting. That means the same thing, and any amount of rejection wen at the lowest Disc. setting to knock out ferrous targets or even lower-conductive non-ferrous targets is really describing a model that lacks a true all metal accept or zero rejection setting. The ED-120 range, for example explains that those models are supposed to be accepting only the more non-ferrous targets that have conductive properties that fall above the typical iron nail range.

Now, I don't know where Sven got the needle gauge that he put in his post blow, but it obviously doesn't 'fit' the description Tesoro uses in their ED-120 Disc. explanation but it is close. Actually, it is close to a 'proper' description of what I have referred to s A true Progressive Discrimination Range as we knew it with the good old traditional TR-Disc. models, but as most know, the blasted Bottle Caps don't follow the rule with our moder motion-based GB-Disc. type Discriminators. Too often Bottle Caps read higher, in he penny-to-quarter range, and some other ferrous-based targets also register higher than a true TR-Disc. would reject them.

Note, however, that his needle gauge shows smaller iron nails and larger iron nails in the '0' to '40' VDI range, and at a VDI numeric reference of about '60' it supposedly knocks out a Steel Bottle Cap. That makes it close because if you deduct '60' points of rejection from an ED-180 range of acceptance you end up with 120
 
also isn't an ED-180 like they say. It's close, but maybe something more like accepting the upper 165
 
Monte said:
also isn't an ED-180 like they say. It's close, but maybe something more like accepting the upper 165
 
tabman said:
.......and what practical difference does that small amount make, if any, in the real world?

When working on one of the cars in the gravel driveway, I dropped a very small screw. I grabbed the Cibola as my normal first tool of choice to find hardware dropped in the gravel. Set the discriminator on minimum and it did not make a peep. OK, so I switch to all metal and found it. If it had been a full 180 degrees of acceptance in discrimination mode, I would not have needed to switch to all metal.
 
And I hunt a lot of really intense black sand areas (such as we have in many volleyball pits), and hunt some gravel under torn-up sidewalks, and work some plowed fields where rocks and dirt clods call for the use of a true zero-rejection setting. Yes I could hunt in a Threshold-based All Metal mode, but I can get excellent in-the-field performance with decent silent-search mode in the true ED-180 (all meta accept) Disc. setting.

Monte
 
tabman, the slight difference between the 165
 
So is it a misprint in the catalog, Yes/No ???
 
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