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I could use some advise on which detector will do a better job on salt beaches and mineralized soil:
1.Whites Goldmaster 3
2.Whites Surfmaster PI
3.Whites Goldmaster v/sat
4.Fisher Goldbug
5.Fisher CZ 6A
Thanks, Joe
 
minleabs excaliber soverin or explorer 1 and 2 or fishers cz 20 myself use the goldquest ss v2 best pi for the beach me thinks larry ca
 
Or, if you want to go further into the water, the Goldquest AquaSearch is a fully waterproofed version. See Surfscanner's website.
Eric.
 
Hi Joe,
There tends to be some confusion regarding PI (pulse induction) detectors and VLF (induction balance) gold nugget detectors. Both are reputed to handle mineralized soil well, and so they would seem to have similar capabilities.
Induction balance gold nugget detectors, often referred to as VLF detectors, are good at compensating for mineralized soil conditions. However, because they are very high gain, higher frequency units, they easily detect low conductive items. Salt water or wet salt sand is a low conductive target. You would find that the Goldmasters and Gold Bug would just signal on the wet salt sand constantly, and so be virtually useless on a salt beach. If you stayed to bone dry sand you could use them to find tiny earrings and such that other machines would miss, but basically these just are not machines for a salt environment.
The CZ detectors are among the best available induction balance (VLF) detectors for a salt environment. Single frequency induction balance detectors have a problem compensating for both salt and ground mineralization at the same time. Units processing two or more frequencies are better able to work in a saltwater environment. They do this by adjusting out the low conductive signals from saltwater, but you are therefore unable to pick up tiny gold items a gold nugget detector would easily find. It is a Catch-22 situation. Extreme small gold sensitivity equals salt sensitivity.
Pulse induction detectors, like the White's Surf PI and others, are often advertised as having "Automatic Cancellation of Salt and Ground Minerals". This is somewhat misleading. A PI unit properly designed for a salt environment does not cancel out salt per se. The machine is just designed to not pick up something that is as low conductive as wet salt sand or salt water. This means that you also cannot pick up small gold items that would give a similar low conductive reading.
Most non-ground canceling pulse induction detectors also tend to be less adversely affected by ground mineralization than induction balance detectors, but they are indeed affected by it. Still, in saltwater/black sand environments pulse induction detectors generally will get better depth that induction balance detectors. The price you pay is that in general they pick up all metallic targets, whereas a detector like the CZ-6A and others can eliminate most iron and steel items, and even some conductive items like pull tabs (and rings!) if you choose.
Pulse induction detectors do not totally ignore ground minerals, and if you run into bad "hot rocks" you have problems. A hot rock is a rock that varies significantly in its magnetic or conductive properties from the surrounding soil, and so which read as targets on metal detectors. Induction balance detectors like the most common nugget detectors have huge issues with hot rocks. Most PI units like the Surf PI or Goldquest work well in an environment where the background mineralization is roughly the same. But put a nice basalt cobble in quartz sand and you will get a good signal as the basalt varies so much from the sand.
This problem is worst in prospecting locales, and so ground compensating pulse induction units like the Minelabs were developed. These machines do actually compensate to a very high degree for the ground mineralization. Some here will point out that by properly detuning their non-ground balancing PI units they can work in mineralized environments. But there is a difference between detuning and proper ground balancing, and a ground balancing PI units will get better performance in the worst ground mineralization.
But, these ground balancing PI units are designed specifically for prospecting, and so are designed to detect very low conductive targets. They also have problems with wet salt environments, just like induction balance gold detectors. Some do have "salt" settings, however, which adjust the machines to ignore low conductive salt... but once again there goes the small gold!
As Eric has said, designing a detector is quite the balancing act. Concentrating on one type of performance tends to take away from another area of performance. The abilty of a Goldmaster to hit tiny gold hurts it in a salt environment. And what makes a PI unit good on a salt beach hurts it on tiny gold.
It is certainly possilbe to pick a "best" detector for any given task. But if detect in many different environments for different types of targets, any one detector will be a compromise. Which is why I have four metal detectors, and some people have many more!
Steve Herschbach
 
the GP 3000 with one of these new NZ 17" (?) coils was tested & picked up a 1/2 grain nugget. I dunno, I've seen many a VLF gold machine that would struggle on that small of a piece. Was going to say something about it but figured I'd have the Minelab boys crawling all over me. What do you think? Sure smells of green cheese to me. ...Willy
 
When I responed it was to the detectors he listed. Beyond that, yes the best would be a GoldQuest SS, unless he wants to be waterproof at depth.
 
Hi willy,
Well, I hear of Minelabs picking up smaller gold than I can pick up with mine, and picking up deeper gold than I can with mine. I guess I just do not know how to operate mine well enough!
I do not use an elephant gun to hunt sparrows, so the idea of hunting small gold with my GP 3000 is a bit foreign to my way of thinking. I use my Gold Bug 2 if I want to find small gold.
Steve Herschbach
 
The GP series can pick up sub grainers and even with a large DD, usually near the toe and heel of the coil, but it does depend a lot on the type of gold and the ground conditions.
A mate turned up here with some gold found in the NSW corner country, which is desert and has well blended soil. The smallest bit went just under 0.05 gms and is the smallest I've personally seen that was actually dug with a pi. He got these small bits while deliberately looking for small ones with a small coil and his bigger, around 8 gms, were found in deeper ground.
Some gold responds well to a pi but some much larger and even solid stuff doesn't so don't expect this to be the norm in all cases. I specked a 0.25 gram solid after rain and it gives no response at all!
I just dug up a half ouncer in deep, bad ground where you couldn't expect to get anything around grain size because of the depth, noise and abundance of near surface hot rocks but I did manage to fluke two smaller ones weighing 0.2 gms and 0.47 gms in similar bad ground nearby.
I agree with Steve in that searching for small bits with a ML pi will usually give you just that. Especially in ground that is obviously very shallow and you may find others coming up to you regularly with the larger ones found in noticably deeper ground and often in areas that sluicing, dry blowing or other methods suggests is a rather poor producer of the larger bits.
 
Hi Steve,
That was a very good summary of the general characteristics of the different types of detectors. Available VLF detectors certainly have the edge on available PI detectors, when it comes to detecting small gold. However, there is considerable overlap between the two technologies and higher sensitivities can be achieved with PI than is perhaps realised. I have not been able to match the sensitivity of the Goldbug 2 with a PI, but I am not far short. To do this requires a sample delay of less than a microsecond and big changes to coil and electronic technology. However, it can be done, and there is an industrial handheld detector on the market right now that uses this technique. Its uses include finding broken off needle tips in fabric, and to pinpoint small particles of metal in foodstuffs, which have been rejected by a larger
 
Hi Steve,
You have done an excellent job of explaining some of the limitations involved with detectors.
One thing I have noticed when using both the SD 2100 and SD2200 was they will also respond to out of place basalt rocks. So, even a PI with ground balance will generate a signal if the "ground" is suddenly different because of a ground change or even a characteristic change in a basalt rock. Fortunately, such responses are usually less intense than what is experienced on a PI with no ground balance.
In many areas, the DD coil does a great job of minimizing the ground signals, making it possible to use a non-ground balancing PI in areas that would be very difficult to hunt using a mono coil. Obviously, the DD coil doesn't compensate fully, but it does reduce the ground signals significantly. Is it perfect? Nope, but nothing is perfect in this imperfect world.
On the other hand, there are many gold producing places where one can hunt with little or no ground response with a non ground balancing PI. I know, I visited a couple of them a few weeks ago. I was surprised just how "quiet" the ground really was.
One location near the California border was so quiet that when I tried a mono coil, I could see no advantage to a DD at all. Had I known the ground was that quiet, a mono would have been used since it does have a little better ground coverage. Unfortunately, I didn't test the ground until I had been there for quite some time.
As for detecting small gold and a PI approaching the sensivity of a VLF, I have come very close and my working PI will detect extremely gold consitently better than any PI I know of being used for nugget hunting today. I think even well know PI users such as Rob Allison will attest to that, since he has seen just how sensitive my PI is to the small stuff. It is approaching the sensitivity of a VLF.
Now, as for the future PI, I suspect that Eric will play an important part in its development. What I do envision is a PI with ground balance capabilities, but with the ability to fully adjust it to the point that no GB is injected. This will minimize any depth loss in areas where no GB is required. No matter how ground balance is done, there is a loss of depth because of it.
The next generation PI's will most likely be working with delays probably down in the 5 usec or less range also. At this point, even 1 grain nuggets can produce a nice decent signal, very close to that of a nugget hunting VLF while still minimizing responses to hotrocks, such as magnetite.
Obviously, none of this will happen overnight since it will take some technology changes to allow such short delays using coils built on a production basis. I suspect that machine designs will become much smarter to compensate for the limitations of the coils, which are limited by the physics involved.
What will be interesting is to watch what happens as the the evolution takes place. However, I do not see it happening soon because of the complexities involved.
Reg
 
Eric i have degaussed hotrocks here in Australia and managed to decrease the effect considerably , also there is a related phenomena that bears a mention and that is that after a lightning strike hits hot ground the ground effects virtually disappear for a few hours and allows for some extremely powerful performance from a pi machine that can operate at max efficiency with no need for ground compensation .
I had this happen to me a couple of times and the first time it happened i began to pick up nuggets that were invisible to my detector moments before and this included a 34 gram gold crystal that was dug out at approx 18" , i went back to that same spot weeks later and it was almost undetectable due to ground noise from the magnetite and oxides .
The machine i use is an early model SD2000 which runs high frequency crystals , increased front end gain , 8 volt power supply , coil switch to switch coils with dd or anti-interference windings to mono operation and i can achieve extreme sensitivities with this pi machine as i can damp the coils to enable the high frequencies to be used effectively , although i suspect your filter circuitry would be a definite plus as it would decrease the detectors response to the hotrocks and enable greater audio discrimination.
Regards TJ
 
Hi Tj,
Interesting. - Just guessing, but the current pulse in the ground from a lighning strike must completely align all the magnetic domains in a saturation state, where they will stay for a while until they decay back to a random orientation. For a time, the detector transmitter pulse has no additional effect on the domains, and therefore no ground signal. If the lightning is accompanied but a heavy downpour of rain, this should make things ultra quiet, as there will be no elecrostatic noise, and electromagnetic noise will be reduced due to the ground being a better conductor.
Maybe, what is needed is lay a large loop of heavy wire, say 20ft square, on the ground, and discharge a large high voltage capacitor through it. Then immediately go detecting within the loop.
How close were you to this strike where you could not detect anything moments before? Lucky your domains did not get permanently aligned <img src="/metal/html/sad.gif" border=0 width=15 height=15 alt=":sad">
Eric.
 
Spot on Eric , i am of the same mind in regard to using a coil to pulse the ground but i tend to think that the magnetic polarities are not aligning when this happens but rather they are degaussed due to the fact that a lightning discharge is not pure dc but has a natural frequency of about 500KHz thentakes a time period for the polarities to become aligned to earths natural field again which means that a magnetic anomaly is produced inside which only conductive properties are active for a short period . i could be off the mark here but i have given this phenomena a great deal of thought what are your thoughts ?
As to the rain settling the electrostatics you are right again and it would help somewhat with conductivity in areas where the soil was penetrated to any significant degree but the soil types dont allow for it due to a lack of vegetable matter in the soil matrix in most areas .
by the way i was probably way too close to the strikes but im glad anyhow because i was able to experience this wonderful effect <img src="/metal/html/smile.gif" border=0 width=15 height=15 alt=":)">
Regards tj
Regards tj
 
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