Cleaning Indian Heads

[timwied]

Those look good. I put my Indian Heads in a rock tumbler with aquarium gravel.

How did they turn out? I have a tumbler, but haven't tried it, thought it would make them come out looking bad?

 

[timwied]

Osgood, I didn't know if #8 would scratch them? Would make removing the crud easier, I'm still experimenting with it myself. I've done probably 8-10, and 4 came out looking good. The rest I put back in Olive Oil for another months soaking. Let me know how the #8's work, I can get hundreds of #2's for free, all I have to do is pick them up! And you are correct, it will not help pitted or raised bubbles on them, I have a couple like that. I have tried a toothpick and have scratched some of them, maybe I get to aggressive?

 

[osgood]

Timwied, found those pencils at a big craft store whose name is a boys name. Tried the 6, but not the 8 yet. I do love it when after an oil soak that crud kind of peels away, im always hoping for one with that green hue, that is cool, CO

 

[timwied]

The IH turned out great ,thanks for the tip.--------after1-----

Do you have before and after pics?

 

[timwied]

The Renaissance Wax is awesome! Made them look great! Dried them first in a acetone bath, then heated them a little with hair dryer, and rubbed Ren Wax on them with lens cloth and buffed them lightly. They look Great!

 

[dfmike]

Do you use what are commonly called lead pencils ?

 

[JNimons]

Great post!! I have a few IH's I have found that I will be trying this on. Thank you!

 

[timwied]

Yes, they are regular #2 pencils, I work at a high school and find hundreds of them laying all over the floor, so I have an endless supply of them. They work best when kept very sharp. I usually sharpen 5 or 6 and work on them. Some Indian's do not come out this good, some are beyond bringing back, but if they are that bad, I haven't hurt them much anyway?

 

[SenorJuan]

This is an interesting technique, thanks for posting. I am considering trying it out on some U.K bronze coins, which have a similar composition to the IH coins. #2 pencils are equivalent to HB grade over here, as we use the 'hard and black' system.
Are you just giving them the one initial olive oil soak, or are you re-soaking them for weeks between each 'pencil treatment' ?

 

[timwied]

I soaked some for months first, and some not, like the 1902 I never had it in olive oil for more than a couple days and the 1871 not at all. They both came out great, seems like sometimes the crust is not attached to the coin as bad as others. I've had some soaking in Olive Oil for a long time and the pencil didn't do much for them. They have been back in the Olive Oil for about a month now. Each coin is different, so don't be discouraged if it doesn't work on the first try.

 

[mcb613]

So, if Im understanding this right, it looks like the 64 Indian has surface crud on it that is being dislodged by the pencil; or is the pencil filling in surface pock mark corrosion , building back the detail?
Looks almost impossible to get that detail back on badly corroded copper. Has anyone tried this on toasted LCs? Would like to see the before and after. If it does really work, its awesome. Almost magic!

 

[timwied]

Yes, it dislodges tough surface corrosion. if it is into the coin as with some of mine it doesn't help them. Pit's are irreversible. You also need to wash off the graphite in between the pencil therapy with soap and running water, being careful not to "rub" the coin. I barely touch it with lots of soap, then I use a soft bristled toothbrush and lay the coin flat on my hand and barely brush it with soap and rinse. If you lay it flat on your hand you cant put too much pressure on it or it will move around. Toothbrushes can scratch coins if used too aggressively.

 

[timwied]

-- moved topic --

 

[mcb613]

After much research on ghis tooic, I think I may have discovered the scientific reasons for the very poditive results of the process. I have learned and was confirmed by a chemist, that Olive Oil, soap and graphite, when mixed at room temperature, actually form and reconstitute copper. Additionally, based on the molecular content and density of a stamped planchet, the detailed relief areas of a copper planchet actually attact the reconstituted copper in such a way that allows the detail of badly corroded coppers to rebuild layer upon layer with every stroke of the graphite pencil. I think the alignment of the molecules and exact position even allow for the finer details of straight lines for letter and the like. Any other scholars on the forum that can add to my findings??? gotcha!

 

[5900_XL-1]

I've frankly given up on any cleaning on IH pennies. Water destroys the details, and since IHs ain't worth nuthing following the find-thrill...mine hit the "don't GAF" stash.

Seriously, what are IHs worth to stress out, especially if you go for months of soaking them? To each their own I guess.

 

[dfmike]

I tried it on three different copper coins that were encrusted in dirt and it did nothing or very little. They were never immersed in olive oil. Could that make a difference ?

When you draw over the coins, do you press very hard like as if you were taking the crud out with a toothpick or just lightly brush over the details with the pen ? I'd really like to see a youtube video of the whole technique. If somebody finds one, please post.

 

[timwied]

To answer your question, dfmike, since I discovered this technique, I have tried this on 25 IH's. I've had pretty good success with about 4 or 5 of them. Some of them don't come out very good at all. If the corrosion has made bubbles/bumps on the IH, nothing can be done except make it look worse! I have tried pushing hard and doing it gently, Pushing hard on a spot can do damage on the coin, I had one that I was determined to get a crusted "spot" off the obverse side about the size of a pen head. I used hard pressure and ended up scratching off the patina around the spot. Otherwise the IH looked great, I should have left it alone! And as 5900_XL-1 said in his post they are not worth very much. I guess that's why I try to make them look good. If it's a very valuable IH, I don't think I would do much to it. Here lately I've just been going over them lightly, no more than 5 or 6 times to get the loose stuff off, rinsing them off and throwing them in Olive Oil. Some have been in there for a couple months, maybe I'll leave them in till next winter till the ground freezes again. Hope this helps, dfmike.

 

[timwied]

Update on the Indian Heads, I've now found 36 since I started Dec 31 2013. I've decided that you do not want to push down very hard on them. It is best to give them a week or so in Olive oil first and now I go over them with a sharp #2 pencil very lightly, rinse with soap and water, repeat, and put them back in the Olive oil for another couple weeks and repeat as often as I see any progress. Also, try to follow the details on the coin, rather than just scribble over it. I've started using a very small circular motion "lightly" but trying not to cross over any raised areas, following the details. Some of them I've done, I've actually worn down some fine details, like the L on the ribbon, it's barely visible anyway and if you rub it with a graphite pencil it will smooth it off, so a very sharp pencil is best done rolling it gently on the sensitive areas like that. I'm in the process of removing the crud on a 1914 D Wheat Back right now, it's pretty crusty, and valuable, so I'm soaking it for a week and going over it following the details once, rinsing, drying and putting it back in the Olive Oil for another week. Slow progress, but may end up being worth a hundred bucks? Here is the before picture, I'll post an after Picture in a couple months and you can tell me what you think. Good Luck!
[attachment 331167 IMAG3615_1.jpg][attachment 331168 IMAG3616_1.jpg]

 

[dfmike]

Thanks for the update.

 

[CopyTech99]

All I can say is........WOW!