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Coil upgrade for my GT
- Thread starter ujat
- Start date
The 15" WOT maybe heavier but it has 2.5" more coverage than the S-12 (12.5") for farm fields or homesteads or the beach. I am sure the S-12 is a top quality coil and cannot go wrong.
The 10x12" or 12x15" SEF (also the 15x18" is available) are suppose to be good too.
As far as which one is the best, I do not know for 100% for sure, but I put almost this exact question you asked on the Exporer forum also and the SEF won as the one recommended to me as the best.
Maybe someone else can give more info here ??
The 10x12" or 12x15" SEF (also the 15x18" is available) are suppose to be good too.
As far as which one is the best, I do not know for 100% for sure, but I put almost this exact question you asked on the Exporer forum also and the SEF won as the one recommended to me as the best.
Maybe someone else can give more info here ??
My questions for those using SEF coils on the Sov/GT would be---
How good is the target separation on the size SEF coil that you use?
Do you use it running in A/M, Disc, or both?
What tone responses do you get in A/M or Disc. that is , do you get good normal GT responses, that identify targets? Any problems with threshold settings?
How hot can you run your SEF coil, , that is, what Sens number do you normally run at with you stock coil and at what number do you run your SEF?
Do you run your SEF coil on the beach, wet sand /water, or only in dirt?
Do you get any falsing ? When ?
I'd like to try one of these coils on my Gt, but I would like some definitive answers first. HH Don
How good is the target separation on the size SEF coil that you use?
Do you use it running in A/M, Disc, or both?
What tone responses do you get in A/M or Disc. that is , do you get good normal GT responses, that identify targets? Any problems with threshold settings?
How hot can you run your SEF coil, , that is, what Sens number do you normally run at with you stock coil and at what number do you run your SEF?
Do you run your SEF coil on the beach, wet sand /water, or only in dirt?
Do you get any falsing ? When ?
I'd like to try one of these coils on my Gt, but I would like some definitive answers first. HH Don
lovepulltabs
New member
I'd contact JW he should be able to answer all your questions.
I mainly used the SEF 15x10 on the beach on a Sovereign Elite my freind has one on his GT
I detect the beaches mainly, both dry and wet and in the water to knee depth as i chest mount.
Before buying the SEF i used a Wot 15"almost exclusivly as it performed better than the S-12 and excelarator 14" here
I run mostly in disc mode, 0 notch 0 disc.
in the dry sand i could get he sensitivy up full(just before the click into auto) with very little falsing
In the wet i had to crack it back to about 9-10 o'clock to get it stable with slight falsng, i like to run hot
Its a long time since i last used the stock 10" and can't remember the actual sensitivity setings but around the 11 oclock on the dry and 12 o'clock on the wet
the sef gives better target separction than the 10" stock coil although probably not as good as a joey or 5"(not much use on the beach though)
the target responses are similar although i might add that the target seemed bigger, hard to explain but its as if the centre line of detection of the coil was much thiner and more focused than with the wot and seems to give better definition.
I have now sold one of my Wots, i'm keeping the other just in case of failure
Hope this helps
PS i also use a 550 meter(i also have a 180) and the readings don't bounce so much
I detect the beaches mainly, both dry and wet and in the water to knee depth as i chest mount.
Before buying the SEF i used a Wot 15"almost exclusivly as it performed better than the S-12 and excelarator 14" here
I run mostly in disc mode, 0 notch 0 disc.
in the dry sand i could get he sensitivy up full(just before the click into auto) with very little falsing
In the wet i had to crack it back to about 9-10 o'clock to get it stable with slight falsng, i like to run hot
Its a long time since i last used the stock 10" and can't remember the actual sensitivity setings but around the 11 oclock on the dry and 12 o'clock on the wet
the sef gives better target separction than the 10" stock coil although probably not as good as a joey or 5"(not much use on the beach though)
the target responses are similar although i might add that the target seemed bigger, hard to explain but its as if the centre line of detection of the coil was much thiner and more focused than with the wot and seems to give better definition.
I have now sold one of my Wots, i'm keeping the other just in case of failure
Hope this helps
PS i also use a 550 meter(i also have a 180) and the readings don't bounce so much
Thanks Kered. A lot of good SEF info in your post. In my experience with the stock 10 in it will miss targets masked by iron. My 8in concentric will pick up good stuff with iron under the coil. A lot of times the 10 in will not give you that "somethings here signal." .Thats why I've been leery of using even bigger coils that might mask out a good hit because its looking at much more ground that may have iron too. A big SEF coil or any big coil that may go deep but is nulling out on iron and masking targets is of little help.
Under your beach conditions if you can run at max Sens then you are going as deep as the detector is capable of operating (but as always thats not the final answer in locating targets). But deep and selective is what I would want to gain in my dirt hunting so a really good big coil would appeal to me.
From that statement you can tell I buy into the theory that bigger is deeper, everything else being equal. However, using a bigger coil to gain beach coverage has always been a non-starter for me. I swing fast and cover lots of sand and in the process willing to accept some falsing. from whatever size coil I am using. I know what those false sounds are.
Its the old detecting game - where some things work, other things won't.
First you got to know your detector then you have to hunt places that have good targets, (thats the part skipped over by many playing the equipment game) and that using better/different equipment may actually improve your chances. of getting them. Its fun playing with new toys. but they don't always live up to expectations.
Are there any SEF coil users out there operating in the dirt? How about some feed on that?
Detecting is dirty work but somebody has to do it and that is us having fun
. .
Under your beach conditions if you can run at max Sens then you are going as deep as the detector is capable of operating (but as always thats not the final answer in locating targets). But deep and selective is what I would want to gain in my dirt hunting so a really good big coil would appeal to me.
From that statement you can tell I buy into the theory that bigger is deeper, everything else being equal. However, using a bigger coil to gain beach coverage has always been a non-starter for me. I swing fast and cover lots of sand and in the process willing to accept some falsing. from whatever size coil I am using. I know what those false sounds are.
Its the old detecting game - where some things work, other things won't.
First you got to know your detector then you have to hunt places that have good targets, (thats the part skipped over by many playing the equipment game) and that using better/different equipment may actually improve your chances. of getting them. Its fun playing with new toys. but they don't always live up to expectations.
Are there any SEF coil users out there operating in the dirt? How about some feed on that?
Detecting is dirty work but somebody has to do it and that is us having fun
. .
Sorry to say that swinging fast and the sovereign don't mix, missing the targets masked by iron could also be down to swing speed. To make the most off the depth qualities of the sovereign and find them deep items you need to slow down.
Mark out a 10 x10 yd square and go over it at your normal speed, both ways up/down and left/right, then do it again at a a slow speed and see the difference, even with the 10"
If you hit iron(null) go arround it very slowly from all angles in case its hiding something
If your coinshooting for the shallow fresh dropped clad the sov will pick it up at almost anyspeed, but the goodies are usually deep
Let us know how you get on
Cheers
PS For all i can run at full sens i don't always do it, a good blast from a shallow ringpull can hide a deeper good target a foot away(especially in AM
Mark out a 10 x10 yd square and go over it at your normal speed, both ways up/down and left/right, then do it again at a a slow speed and see the difference, even with the 10"
If you hit iron(null) go arround it very slowly from all angles in case its hiding something
If your coinshooting for the shallow fresh dropped clad the sov will pick it up at almost anyspeed, but the goodies are usually deep
Let us know how you get on
Cheers
PS For all i can run at full sens i don't always do it, a good blast from a shallow ringpull can hide a deeper good target a foot away(especially in AM
Mike (Virginia Beach)
New member
>>> PS i also use a 550 meter(i also have a 180) and the readings don't bounce so much <<<
So are you saying that you use the meter at the BEACH??? Because with the BBS machines, their forte is the tone system. Using a meter at the beach seems a very BAD idea. Because a meter is useful primarily for coin hunting. And discriminating out trash at the beach means you lose almost ALL the good gold tagets.
So in using a meter at the beach, I would ask:
- Exactly WHAT targets do you choose NOT to dig?
- How do you diiferentiate between a piece of aluminum scrap and a gold ring or chain, since no detector made or any meter can DO that?
Using tones, it's easy to discern a bottlecap. It's easy to tell a quarter from a dime. Or a penny from a qaurter or a dime. Or a nickel, in most cases, from ANYTHING. So where exactly does the meter prove to be of any value at the beach?
Caveat: Forget all the above if you are tone deaf (or deaf, period), in which case a meter would be invaluable.
So are you saying that you use the meter at the BEACH??? Because with the BBS machines, their forte is the tone system. Using a meter at the beach seems a very BAD idea. Because a meter is useful primarily for coin hunting. And discriminating out trash at the beach means you lose almost ALL the good gold tagets.
So in using a meter at the beach, I would ask:
- Exactly WHAT targets do you choose NOT to dig?
- How do you diiferentiate between a piece of aluminum scrap and a gold ring or chain, since no detector made or any meter can DO that?
Using tones, it's easy to discern a bottlecap. It's easy to tell a quarter from a dime. Or a penny from a qaurter or a dime. Or a nickel, in most cases, from ANYTHING. So where exactly does the meter prove to be of any value at the beach?
Caveat: Forget all the above if you are tone deaf (or deaf, period), in which case a meter would be invaluable.
king-ghidorah
New member
Mike (Virginia Beach) said:>>> PS i also use a 550 meter(i also have a 180) and the readings don't bounce so much <<<
So are you saying that you use the meter at the BEACH??? Because with the BBS machines, their forte is the tone system. Using a meter at the beach seems a very BAD idea. Because a meter is useful primarily for coin hunting. And discriminating out trash at the beach means you lose almost ALL the good gold tagets.
So in using a meter at the beach, I would ask:
- Exactly WHAT targets do you choose NOT to dig?
- How do you diiferentiate between a piece of aluminum scrap and a gold ring or chain, since no detector made or any meter can DO that?
Using tones, it's easy to discern a bottlecap. It's easy to tell a quarter from a dime. Or a penny from a qaurter or a dime. Or a nickel, in most cases, from ANYTHING. So where exactly does the meter prove to be of any value at the beach?
Caveat: Forget all the above if you are tone deaf (or deaf, period), in which case a meter would be invaluable.
Funny, until like maybe a week ago it didn't even hit me that the Excalibur or the GT doesn't have a visual readout BUT when I was using the SE on the beach I was going by tone anyway. Getting a machine like the Excalibur will force me to utilize tone only which is a very good way of assessing the potential finds in the ground. I look forward to the challenge. With all the bells & whistles on most machines many newbies get too hooked up on what is the meter saying when it should be, "what did that sound like" "how did it sound off" etc. When I got my SE that was what stalled my progress was trying to rely to heavily on the readout. Once I started listening to the sounds my handling of the SE dramatically increased.
Mike (Virginia Beach)
New member
Gold jewelry and gold rings have such a SWEET and DISTINCT sound on the Excal that it ought to be treated like the Harley exhaust note...PATENTED!
Yeah, it's THAT good!
No meter required.
Yeah, it's THAT good!
No meter required.
king-ghidorah
New member
Mike (Virginia Beach) said:
good analogy or like the sound of a deep,throaty Ford Mustang exhaust.
Now people with the new E-Trac out will rely heavily on the meter more so.
Also the 2 big disadvantages of the BBS and FBS units is they are very slow "and" also not sensitive to very small gold.
I was told by Minelab this about not being sensitive to very small gold and also many reports of the slow coverage speed.
Otherwise they are about the best machines(ones with BBS and FBS) out there.
I was told that the extreme depth VLF Minelab Muskateer Advantage found things behind the Sovereign that it missed, meaning deeper(in a black dirt type field if I heard right) and was many times faster than the Sovereign in coverage. So a person may prefer to use a ordinary VLF in black dirt--ploughed fields also to cover many times more ground in a day.
Jack Lange in Australia did tests and said this about the X-Terra 70 as compared to the FBS and BBS units, this says it all, read this:
DEPTH
(The X-Terra 70)This detector goes as deep as the expensive models (Explorer Quattro Sovereign) in dry beach sand, all soils, but does not go nearly as deep in damp beach sand because of the salt effect. Especially when set in
Also the 2 big disadvantages of the BBS and FBS units is they are very slow "and" also not sensitive to very small gold.
I was told by Minelab this about not being sensitive to very small gold and also many reports of the slow coverage speed.
Otherwise they are about the best machines(ones with BBS and FBS) out there.
I was told that the extreme depth VLF Minelab Muskateer Advantage found things behind the Sovereign that it missed, meaning deeper(in a black dirt type field if I heard right) and was many times faster than the Sovereign in coverage. So a person may prefer to use a ordinary VLF in black dirt--ploughed fields also to cover many times more ground in a day.
Jack Lange in Australia did tests and said this about the X-Terra 70 as compared to the FBS and BBS units, this says it all, read this:
DEPTH
(The X-Terra 70)This detector goes as deep as the expensive models (Explorer Quattro Sovereign) in dry beach sand, all soils, but does not go nearly as deep in damp beach sand because of the salt effect. Especially when set in
Mike (Virginia Beach)
New member
>>> good analogy or like the sound of a deep,throaty Ford Mustang exhaust. <<<
And I Like YOUR analogy...I have one of those too...1991 5.0 LX, heavily tweaked. Bought it new, started modding it right out of the box. Shown here with 200K miles on the clock. Now has 233K and runs like a raped ape.
Click for audio: http://members.cox.net/detect/latersuckers.wav
And I Like YOUR analogy...I have one of those too...1991 5.0 LX, heavily tweaked. Bought it new, started modding it right out of the box. Shown here with 200K miles on the clock. Now has 233K and runs like a raped ape.
Click for audio: http://members.cox.net/detect/latersuckers.wav
Mike (Virginia Beach)
New member
Well what you say may have SOME truth to it, however I will point out the following:
1) I don't have any "gold fields" around where I live and I don't know anybody who does. If I did I might care about little "nuggets"
2) I don't know what "small gold" is, but I have found more diamond rings, gold rings, charms, and chains than I can count with my Excal, ALL in the wet sand and water, some VERY deep, and some VERY small.
3) I don't find the BBS machines (Excal or GT, of which I own both) to be slow AT ALL. Because if one uses the threshold as it is intended, you can sweep plenty fast. You may not get a GOOD signal when you go over or near the target the first time, but you will get an interruption of the threshold. And then upon going back and SLOWING DOWN, a good signal and a good dig.
4) The proof is in the FINDS, not what anybody says in THEORY.
1) I don't have any "gold fields" around where I live and I don't know anybody who does. If I did I might care about little "nuggets"
2) I don't know what "small gold" is, but I have found more diamond rings, gold rings, charms, and chains than I can count with my Excal, ALL in the wet sand and water, some VERY deep, and some VERY small.
3) I don't find the BBS machines (Excal or GT, of which I own both) to be slow AT ALL. Because if one uses the threshold as it is intended, you can sweep plenty fast. You may not get a GOOD signal when you go over or near the target the first time, but you will get an interruption of the threshold. And then upon going back and SLOWING DOWN, a good signal and a good dig.
4) The proof is in the FINDS, not what anybody says in THEORY.
Mike (Virginia Beach) said:Well what you say may have SOME truth to it, however I will point out the following:
1) I don't have any "gold fields" around where I live and I don't know anybody who does. If I did I might care about little "nuggets" Hi Mike, I gold prospect here but yes you are right for your area and the majority of areas.
2) I don't know what "small gold" is, but I have found more diamond rings, gold rings, charms, and chains than I can count with my Excal, ALL in the wet sand and water, some VERY deep, and some VERY small. Yes a difference between Disc. and All Metal. Yes, the BBS capibilities are probably sufficient for over 95% of all gold jewlery you will find.
3) I don't find the BBS machines (Excal or GT, of which I own both) to be slow AT ALL. Because if one uses the threshold as it is intended, you can sweep plenty fast. You may not get a GOOD signal when you go over or near the target the first time, but you will get an interruption of the threshold. And then upon going back and SLOWING DOWN, a good signal and a good dig. I understand, a hit first at a faster speed then slow down to identify.
I also have no salt water or wet salt sand here, which makes the BBS shine as the best and deepest Disc. unit available in those ocean areas, because I live inland.
4) The proof is in the FINDS, not what anybody says in THEORY.
1) Does the Excal have Ground Trac the same as the Sovereign GT has ??
2) Have you stacked up("compared") your Excal against the waterproof Tesoro Tiger Shark (VLF) in "Salt Mode" for depth and Disc. capabilities at the beach ?? Thanks, David!
Beachcomber
New member
The Tiger Shark is a Great Freshwater Machine but terrible in and around Saltwater. By the time you lower the sensitivity and raise the Discrimination to compensate for the salt it has lost most of it's depth and all of it's sensitivity to small gold. It is fine up in the dry sand where you can once again hunt at low enough levels of Discrimination to detect the very very small gold. The Excal or Sov GT will hunt circles around a Tiger Shark on an Ocean Beach. I had one and know this from first hand experience. In fresh water the Tiger Shark is the machine to beat when it comes to very small gold and chains. There are NO machines currently available that can get the very very small gold in the wet sand or saltwater. Not single frequency, Multifrequency, or Pulse. The reason for this is that is the conductivity of the saltwater. To compensate for Saltwater with a single frequency detector like the Musketeer or Tiger Shark that you spoke of above or any single frequency detector you have to use the discrimination control to eliminate the effect of the saltwater. The level of discrimination needed to eliminate the effect of the saltwater is so (just below Nickels) that it also eliminates all very small gold. For a PI it needs to have it's pulse delay set to 10us or lower. Unfortunately at 10us or lower the PI also will detect the saltwater. For a PI to to compensate for the saltwater it's pulse delay needs to be between 13 and 15us and again the very small gold gets left behind. The FBS and BBS machines will see small gold but not the very very small stuff with the added bonus of no problems hunting around saltwater, not needing to have the discrimination control turned up to eliminate the salt an still being able to reject iron.
HH
Beachcomber
HH
Beachcomber
Mike (Virginia Beach)
New member
1) Does the Excal have Ground Trac the same as the Sovereign GT has ??
No, it doesn't. And it could probably work better in the black sand if it did, however I have pulled many a good target from the black sand even though the machine will be a little chatty sometimes when working in it. In the wet sand and the water, it's as smooth as glass.
2) Have you stacked up("compared") your Excal against the waterproof Tesoro Tiger Shark (VLF) in "Salt Mode" for depth and Disc. capabilities at the beach ?? Thanks, David!
No, I've never had the opportunity to do that. I hear they are hot machines, but I've never seen anybody with one on our beaches.
As for your mention of the Garrett, I have always wondered about the Infinium. They are supposed to be a very versatile machine too and I'm intrigued by them. But again, of ALL the hunters we have here, never seen one. The Excal is the number one favorite of the majority around here I think it would be safe to say. It's done very well for me. And just plain FUN to hunt with.
Happy hunting...
No, it doesn't. And it could probably work better in the black sand if it did, however I have pulled many a good target from the black sand even though the machine will be a little chatty sometimes when working in it. In the wet sand and the water, it's as smooth as glass.
2) Have you stacked up("compared") your Excal against the waterproof Tesoro Tiger Shark (VLF) in "Salt Mode" for depth and Disc. capabilities at the beach ?? Thanks, David!
No, I've never had the opportunity to do that. I hear they are hot machines, but I've never seen anybody with one on our beaches.
As for your mention of the Garrett, I have always wondered about the Infinium. They are supposed to be a very versatile machine too and I'm intrigued by them. But again, of ALL the hunters we have here, never seen one. The Excal is the number one favorite of the majority around here I think it would be safe to say. It's done very well for me. And just plain FUN to hunt with.
Happy hunting...