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Conflicting F5 depth information

TrpnBils

New member
I swear every time I read something about the F5 it contradicts something else I read about it an hour ago.... I want to get some clarification on a couple of things.

Does running it in either 3 or 4 tones reduce depth? If so, what's the point in having the options?

Does turning the gain or threshold up past a certain point reduce depth? If so, what's the point in having those options?

Can it effectively be ground balanced using pump mode if there is any discrimination on?

Does the pump mode ground balance work correctly if when you get near the ground during balancing and it beeps at something metal? (as in trashy areas where you maybe can't get a totally silent area without discrimination).


Thanks!
 
I have not noticed a reduction of depth with the tones.
Adjusting the gain and threshold real high in the extreme trash areas will reduce depth because of the many co located targets in the ground robbing some or both of the transmit and receiving signals. That is why the adjustment is there, it allows the user to first determine the best setting adjustments for each site. A lot to be said about both of these adjustments. Very important functions.
When you're in all metal mode you are running with no discrimination.
You must find a clean spot to ground balance. Tip, if you're in a super trashy area and can't seem to find a clean spot, move several feet away from the area and try again. If you're still having problems, reduce the gain and try again. I you are trying to run super hot then back off on the gain and adjust the threshold until you hear a slight hum. If you need more, shoot me a PM
 
TrpnBils said:
I swear every time I read something about the F5 it contradicts something else I read about it an hour ago....

Does running it in either 3 or 4 tones reduce depth? If so, what's the point in having the options?

Does turning the gain or threshold up past a certain point reduce depth? If so, what's the point in having those options?

Can it effectively be ground balanced using pump mode if there is any discrimination on?

Does the pump mode ground balance work correctly if when you get near the ground during balancing and it beeps at something metal? (as in trashy areas where you maybe can't get a totally silent area without discrimination).


Thanks!

Trouble with opinions is everybody has them, and typically you are going to get some differences. I guess it is best when researching anything it to read as much as you can find, and glean from all of it what seems most consistant.

I have seen a few who will say that 2 tones is deeper, myself I can't see any measureable / provable truth to that statement.on several machines with tone optioins. Why is it an option, some would prefer 2, (relic hunter) others 3 (coin shooter, to avoid non coin junk as an example), even the same guy might choose a different option depending on certain situation.

Threshold is adjustable mainly to suit different peoples hearing, it has been stated many times to have it's level to where "YOU" can just hear it. Having it set too high doesn't really affect the detectors depth, but does override 'YOUR" ability to hear small changes in the threshold, the smallest / deepest targets.

NO you can't GB over or very near metal. If you can't find clear land to pump, there are other fast easy methods. turn GB knob to match phase, while swinging
 
Maybe I can help......maybe :surrender:
Does running it in either 3 or 4 tones reduce depth? If so, what's the point in having the options?

The F5 has four tone id options you can use based upon your requirements. Two of them, the 1 and 2 tone modes are VCO type audio modes. Two of them, 3 and 4 tone modes, are modulated saturated audio modes. The VCO modes are easier to hear all the way out to audio cutoff point. Threshold settings play a part in this because they affect the cutoff point audio. Threshold settings closer to the ends (+9 or -9) give a more clipped fringe depth cutoff. Threshold settings at 0 give less of a clipped response. I think the VCO modes have a fringe depth cutoff point that is at a greater distance from the coil compared to the modulated saturated audio modes AND is easier to hear.

Why have different audio modes? I'm sure many of us who use the multi tone id option detectors use the different audio modes for different purposes. 4 tone is for when you want nickels range targets to stand out from the alum trash, 2 tone is best to use around large iron. That will get you started. You need to hunt the detector in various scenarios to figure out how to make the audio mode selections work for you.

Does turning the gain or threshold up past a certain point reduce depth? If so, what's the point in having those options?

If you turn the Threshold control all the way clockwise to +9 and then turn it a little further you will see that the threshold control has a stop. You can't turn it any further clockwise past that point. Positive Threshold settings are wide open settings that also invoke a weak audio boost feature that made the tiny signals more robust. That means that the detector is open to even the tiniest EMI noise, and not only open to this noise but that it enhances this noise as well. You can get a very noisy detector with Threshold settings at 0 and above.

We found that turning the Threshold control clockwise purposefully into that 'stop' point would often put the detector into a state where the tiny EMI noise was eliminated as if a lower Threshold setting was being used, but kept the audio boost feature in play. It was like a noise cancel feature. But it is not a deliberate feature. It is just a potentiometer/software bug that we use to our advantage.


Can it effectively be ground balanced using pump mode if there is any discrimination on?

Yes, you can ground balance in the discrimination mode by just holding the phase lock button and pumping the coil until the numbers match.

Does the pump mode ground balance work correctly if when you get near the ground during balancing and it beeps at something metal? (as in trashy areas where you maybe can't get a totally silent area without discrimination).

No...metal will throw off the phase number and you will get an improper balance. You should also learn the difference between metal beeps and Phase Lock beeps. Practice so you understand what is going on when you use the Phase Lock button.

Also, if your sites FE304 bar graph is 3 or 4 bars, your ground balance will be off by using the Phase Lock method of ground balancing. When you have high FE304 bar graph readings you really need to ground balance in the all metal mode. The ground balance point is much more finite and you can't hit it with the Phase lock button. But if the FE304 bar graphs readings are below 3, the ground balance point has more spread in it and the Phase Lock button will get your into that range.

What else?

HH
Mike
 
Mike Hillis said:
Also, if your sites FE304 bar graph is 3 or 4 bars, your ground balance will be off by using the Phase Lock method of ground balancing. When you have high FE304 bar graph readings you really need to ground balance in the all metal mode. The ground balance point is much more finite and you can't hit it with the Phase lock button. But if the FE304 bar graphs readings are below 3, the ground balance point has more spread in it and the Phase Lock button will get your into that range.

What else?

HH
Mike

Thanks everybody for the advice. Apparently I'm not getting email alerts to replies, so I didn't see this all until this morning. Mike, I have a question specifically about this explanation you gave here. I've had the F5 since August and the Fe3O[sub]4[/sub] bar is something I really have never used because I didn't know how the information given really could be used (i.e. "okay, so there's more iron in the soil...now what?"). If you manually set the ground balance, do you swing the coil a few times, see what the most common number is that comes up, and set the GB to that number manually? Does it matter if you're over any metal then? I would think it would, but there are some REALLY trashy areas I've been to where I had a hell of a time finding somewhere clean enough to balance...and even then when I'd pump the coil I'd hear the GB beep but every time it would get near the ground I'd get a "metal beep" too even if the area seemed clean a few seconds before. If I could avoid that problem by balancing manually, I'll definitely do that.

Incidentally, I just got the DD coil yesterday and have only had about 15 minutes to use it so far but I can already tell it's definitely got its own learning curve over the stock coil!
 
I got my new F5 two weeks ago, I'm upgrading from a Fisher 1220-X so have a lot to learn just like TrpnBils.

Lots of good information above, but no one ever seems to mention the confidence meter.

How much attention do you pay to it?

If you have a strong signal and good TID number, but the confidence meter is zero or one bar do you bother to dig it?
 
Gerry M said:
I got my new F5 two weeks ago, I'm upgrading from a Fisher 1220-X so have a lot to learn just like TrpnBils.

Lots of good information above, but no one ever seems to mention the confidence meter.

How much attention do you pay to it?

If you have a strong signal and good TID number, but the confidence meter is zero or one bar do you bother to dig it?

For me and if I am coin hunting and I get a good strong signal and a low confidence reading I just walk on by. Now if it is a squeaker signal I do watch the confidence reading but I don't let it make the call to dig or not.

All in all if your ID numbers are good and the confidence meter is high things are looking good for a keeper target.

Ron in Wv
 
I would take Mike Hillis's advice. The man has written the definitive bible on the F5 that most people who own one reference.:please:
 
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