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Confused re sovereign tones...

J

JohnNZ

New member
Hello all,
A question for the experts. I had 90 mins on the beach with my Sov Elite today. First it seems pretty sensitive, second it is very stable.
A question on the tones : I noticed that a high sounding tone, when I dug closer to the target and got the coil closer, the tone increased in volume (makes sense), BUT also seemed to drop a lot in pitch.
This confused me as how would i know with a high tone if the target was a good one close to the surface or a lower conductivity one deeper down - they would both sound the same!! Am I missing something?
I had min notch, min disc, sens at 12 oclock, threshold hum, variable tones.
any input would be appreciated!
thanks
JOhn
 
Hi John.......

You didn't say what kind of targets. I have seen aluminum trash (tabs) tease up quite a bit in the ground, but once disturbed or dug up revert to the correct tone and ID. Must be something to do with the halo.

Iron can hit high, but when disturbed or dug will also return to a lower reading or null out.

Shallow targets will have a wider response than deeper ones provided they are about the same size.

It's possible to disturb an object and tilt it and come up with a lower reading.

The more air you have under the coil, the lower the reading will be. You can demonstrate this by air testing. Start by swinging the coil close to a coin. Slowly lift as you swing and you will see that the tone and meter will start to drop off at some point.

There may be other possibilities as to what is causing the confusion. It's early and I have not finished my first cup of coffee, so I'm a little fuzzy right now.

If you could tell us what targets were causing you these problems, it might help.

HH
 
Art
Hello and thanks for that quick reply.
Its late here and im off to bed now - 11:30PM
I will do some tests on the ground tommorrow with a few coins to see if the pitch changes with distance.
Most the items i am referring to were junk - i found nothing good.
I dug a huge hole only to discover a crushed coke can - must been 50 cm or so.
Would batteries that are going change a "strong tone" at all in pitch?
it takes more current ot drive a loud tone in the headphones im sure..
anyway - Ill let you know tomorrow
thanks again!
John
 
Might have to wait until tomorrow to continue then.

If everything that lowers in tone as you dig (without exception) is junk, and you find nothing good with this kind of response, then you have one way to identify junk.

I have noticed that a considerable difference in battery voltage will make some difference in response, but it is about impossible to describe. Not significant enough to cause any problems.

When using headphones there is virtually no difference in battery drain between a weak hit, strong hit, or just a threshold. Not so if just using the speaker.

Coke cans are great. Pretty much a silver tone, but with a bit to much variation in tone. They are also too wide in response to be a coin. Too wide and too loud. Pick up the coil a few inches and they will still be too wide and loud to be a coin or silver ring. Once you get the feel for loudness and width, they wont caause you any more trouble.

HH
Art
 
Cans and bottle caps should be the first targets easily identified by audio. Well bottle caps are at least. Cans on the otherhand, as Art explained will still signal when the coil is lifted.

I use the Excalibut at the beach, but have loaned the Sove Elite to others who tag along.

I have yet to dig a good target that nulled as iron. I have dug them to be sure. I still dig them on occasion to keep making sure. I haven't dug an iron target that signaled a high tone. Yet.

I haven't dug a good target that nulled and signaled a high tone at the same time.

So the best advice is to set up your machine with slight chatter. At least I have learned that. You will then learn what a real target sounds like as opposed to a false signal. If you find yourself re-checking too much, then you have your sensitivety a little too high.

Dig every signal. No Disc, no notch. I would also say, remove the meter, as you really don't need it for the beach. Good targets could read as any junk.

laterz
 
Being John is new to the Sovereigns it is better to keep everything as simple as possible until he has some experience with this detector. I used to recommend the sensitivity at 11-12 as this is where most seem to have the best luck, but now recommend auto so the threshold stay the smoothest and easier to learn. Also it is nice if the person can use a 8 inch coil too to help with the learning curve.
Now most of what we all had to go though was the learning curve which was not something we learned the first time out with the Sovereign. Most what has been said is a good start, but experience is where a person will learn the most plus the few tips most of us give that have been using the Sovereign.
What I would do in this case is set the detector up with no notch, no disc, auto sensitivity, variable tones with a slight threshold and put down different coins on the ground and trash items and swing the coil over them and try to keep the tone as constant as possible by just going over just the target only back and forth. Now try all the different target to see what they all sound like and if you have a meter try to keep it at the highest numbers. Now put some nails or other small iron targets within 4 inches of a good one and hear how it will null and if going slow enough you can hear both the null and yet the coin when going slow enough you can wiggle the coil and keep the tone and a lock on of the good target. Now another thing is get a signal over a good target like a small coin and start raising the coil and see how the tones will change a bit,but if you wiggle it just right the tone will stay constant along with the meter reading.
Now that you see how this works I would take it to a place where there may be a lot of new coins and not a lot of trash.Get used to the Sovereign and see how many good targets you can dig, the worst spot to take it too is where it has been worked over as you don't get a chance to hear a lot of good targets. I found I learned more at a area that didn't have a lot of targets and I was able to listen to every one and dig some to know how the tones sounded for a good one and a bad target, then learned more as I went at some of the tougher spot.
The biggest thing I feel is the experience in the Field is where you will learn more and I know of many that are great with the Sovereigns now and do real well, but in the first few days they thought they made a big mistake buying the Sovereign, but now feel it is the best detector out there and have the finds to prove it.
One thing on batteries I tell many is do not use rechargeable in the alkaline pack of the Sovereigns as there is not enough voltage for the Sovereigns and why there is 10 of the cells in the factory rechargeable packs. The cells are 1.2 volts apiece so 8 makes 9.6 volts and the Sovereigns take 12 volts to run correctly.
Good luck John and get out to use the Sovereign and learn what you can, you will be surprised once you get some experience under your belt.
Rick
 
Pretty well agree with you too Rick.

About the only difference is how I work a target.
I do it your way some of the time, and have a couple different methods to use when I feel the need. Rather than tossing the whole works on the table at this point, should keep things pretty much streamlined and easy to work with.

HH
Art
 
thanks for the replies and advice.
It is now early sun morning here - I will do what Rick suggested, with a few targets.
I did do this with one or two coins on the back lawn, but i will use more this time and listen for tonechanges with distance as well
I AM USING 8 1.2V NIMHs in the alkaline pack - this is what I was sold.
I realise 9.6V may be too low - I will try fresh alkalines.. any idea where I can get a 12V NIMH pack from at a good price?
Also I have the tornado 1000 coil.
I do have some detector experience. Over the last 3 years I have used several and currently own a Whites MXT, Whites surf PI and the Sov elite. I sold a Garrett GTAx1250 to pay for the sov.
I do not have a mter - adn dont rreally want one - I plan to use teh sov to complement my PI on the beach - sove for upper dry sand/upper wet sand, PI for water. Pi gets too much junk in dry sand.
I will hip mount the sov - need to buy this too. So i dont want to look at a meter all the time and feel only tones will help me learn the tones better.
As I say today I will redo the tests, and post results.
I do like the machine at this stage, and this is fun going through the learning curve.
thanks again guys!
John
 
Should be available from any Minelab dealer.

The 10" coil is not the best to learn on, but if that's what you have then it will do.
The reason I say this is because the T-10 has a pretty wide response and is not as good at target seperation as a lot of other coils. The audio will be more bland and will not give you as much character in the tones to help you distinguish between different kinds of targets.

Use what you have for now. Not going to tell you that you need any particular acessories at the moment. Take your time and get used to what you have for now.

HH
Art
 
Hi Art,
There must be a lot of guys who have 8" coils tucked away who now use 10" coils..
Which one would you recommend? the stock 8"? Is this the tornado 8"? Tornado was new with the Elite wasnt it?
Will older sov coils work as well?
I will need to go with what I have 4 now - budget is exhausted..
thanks
John
 
To start.......
Any coil made for any Sov will work.

The T-8 (easier than spelling the whole thing) which came out with the Elite or the BBS 800 (previous small coil) should be much better for audio than the 10". Either one should be obtainable at a reasonable price, as they are not too popular. Everyone wants something bigger and hotter.
While these little coils are not real scorchers for depth, they do a good job of talking to you. I should be careful here....have not used the T-8, but when they came out everyone said they could see no differnce from the 800 other than weight.

Most beach hunters usually end up with a S-12 or a WOT. A lot of punch and ground coverage. Coin shooters tend to like S-8 and the old Coinsearch coils for dirt hunting around trash. The Coinseach is not waterproof.

Each kind of coil is going to be different in performance. Some you can pretty much hunt by ear, while others make you dependent on a meter.

I have used only 5 different coils. Each has it's place. Of the ones that I have not tried, I'm sure that I would like or dislike some while certain others would fit very well to particular situations.

Doubt if I will find a coil that will make me happy all the time.

Do the best you can for now. You will have plenty of time to get inputs from others and do some thinking.

HH
Art
 
You can learn with what you have. You will prolly get good too, and not want the 8-incher.

I like the 10-T because it's not too big nor too small. I did start out with the 8-inBBS, and then went straight for the S-12. Had to go back down to the T-10, and haven't had the "want" or "need" to change again.
 
Watch the classified as this past week on another site a battery pack along with the house charger, the car charger and the nice hip-mount bag that can be chest mounted too sold for $50. I got one for the Advantage which is the same other than the color is black instead of blue for my GT for a extra pack with both chargers and hip-mount bag for $50 too and was brand new.
If you just have the alkaline pack then you will have to use alkaline and not use the NIMH battery's as you will not have enough voltage for it to work correctly.
Remember to get out to use it and have some patience as it will pay off.

Rick
 
the 10 inch Tornado coil that come on my GT, but I still have my 8 inch coinsearch which has got me deep coins for a 8 inch coil. What is the perfect set up for me is the 8 inch coinsearch or the S8 of Sun Rays and the S12 for the open spaces.
There is a few other coils I have tried that are great too, but not made yet and hope they will be for the Sovereigns.
 
were to use the 8 inch coil for a while it makes a difference I feel to help pinpoint and its less likely to see two or more targets at the same time and that can eliminate some confusion, also you will need to use the detector real slow,if you work to fast it will be a host of frustration that you can avoid by slowing down, there is a lot to take in, do not get frustrated and remember some days you may feel totally overwhelmed and wonder if you made the right detector choice ,I feel alot of sovereign users felt this way at some point, stick with it and give it an honest try at learning and you will be rewarded for your efforts ,and eventually deep coins will be standard for you, good luck ...................
 
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