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Cross Saving

D

DaugBiscuit

New member
I have had my Safari about two weeks now and I read a lot about 'cross save.' Can someone tell me more about cross saving, how to do it and what i will gain by using it?

Thanks,
Daug
 
What you are trying to do is get rid of Icons that show up next to your target ID reading.If you get rid of them it is one less thing you really do not need so it that could speed up your processor maybe improve your ID readings get rid a little bit of bounce on target ID numbers..One of easy ways of doing it is just to bring up preset jeweler program and go to relic and hold down program button you have now just cross saved you should have got rid of Icons.You will see a little c or f in upper right hand corner of screen to see if you are in conductive or ferrous.You can now customize your cross saved program and hold down program button again and you should have no Icons when you hunt.I rarely hunt below 10 I hate foil and 22 shells.Get Andy's book will help you a lot.Sorry for this condensed version I am tired.
 
Like Prep says, the reason many of us go to cross saving is to get rid of the target ID icons which not only takes up space on our LED screen, but for the most part they serve no useful function anyhow as they are often inaccurate or will show more than one kind of target icon which isn't helpful either. For instance to get rid of the target ID icons, momentarily press either the coin or coin & jewelry touch pad, then press and hold in on either the relic or all metal touch pad until saved comes up on your screen and a little stick figure shows up next to the search mode you have selected. By doing so you will have eliminated the target ID icons and should only hear conductive based (non iron) audio signals (at least in theory anyhow). You can cross save to any of the four preset search modes, but if you cross save the relic or all metal modes to either the coin or coins & jewelry search modes, naturally you will have the target ID icons back on your LED screen once again and will once more be able to hear your ferrous signals. What is nice about cross saving is that you can customize your search modes to exactly what works best for your area of the country. My area of the U.S. is absolutely saturated with millions of small pieces of old iron. As a result and because of being a coin shooter I have cross saved the coin & jewelry search mode to the all metal search mode, thereby making it possible to not only eliminate the target ID icons, but also making it possible to no longer have to listen to all the thousands of pieces of iron that litter most of the sites around here. When I do get a signal it is "usually" conductive in nature and by checking it's TID, I can pretty much tell whether or not to dig the target. Although I'm not above also digging a lot of iffy signals too just in case they might be jewelry or a ring.
 
I want to thank you all for pointing me in the right direction concerning Cross Saving. First though, let me apologize for taking so long to reply - today I entered the third day without internet service, they just came today to fix the problems, and now I am back in business.

Each of you gave good advice and good information and I have followed your advice and cross saved to the relic mode. I've tested the sound in my test garden and can see the benefits - now all I have to do is learn the sounds.

John, it is a great video link you sent, I will be watching it over and over during my learning process.

I am still open to suggestion should you or anyone else wish to add to this thread. I am sure there are others who will benefit from your knowledge.

Thanks again and HH,
Daug
 
Correct me if I am wrong about 'Cross Saving' but if I understand it correctly, all it does is eliminate icons or add icon depending upon which search mode you choose but it has no effect on the audio. The only advantage of not having icons are (1.) they clutter the LCD Screen (2.) it may speed up the processor and recovery time (3.) by giving the processor a boost the likelihood of a more accurate Target ID is more likely.

Of having icons the only advantage is user preference in identifying the target at the sacrifice of potentially a more accurate processor plus recovery speed.

Am I correct in my assessment?

Thanks,
Daug
 
DaugBiscuit said:
Correct me if I am wrong about 'Cross Saving' but if I understand it correctly, all it does is eliminate icons or add icon depending upon which search mode you choose but it has no effect on the audio. The only advantage of not having icons are (1.) they clutter the LCD Screen (2.) it may speed up the processor and recovery time (3.) by giving the processor a boost the likelihood of a more accurate Target ID is more likely.

Of having icons the only advantage is user preference in identifying the target at the sacrifice of potentially a more accurate processor plus recovery speed.

Am I correct in my assessment?

Thanks,
Daug
Click to expand...

It speeds up the recovery time of the TID meter by eliminating the icons, if you want to hunt with conductive audio tones without icons. It does nothing for the audio. Also you could hunt with ferrous tones with icons. That is about it.

John
 
Is this a true statement? This was posted on another blog or forum. The person writes:

"cross-saving allows you to hear the ferrous signals while seeing the conductive signals(via the led readout) at the same time. Or you cans see the ferrous signals (via led readout) and hear the conductive signals at the same time. You are able to get the same info as an explorer, both the fe and the co numbers."

I thought you only get conductive signals (ID #s) on the Safari and not ferrous.
 
DaugBiscuit said:
Is this a true statement? This was posted on another blog or forum. The person writes:

"cross-saving allows you to hear the ferrous signals while seeing the conductive signals(via the led readout) at the same time. Or you cans see the ferrous signals (via led readout) and hear the conductive signals at the same time. You are able to get the same info as an explorer, both the fe and the co numbers."

I thought you only get conductive signals (ID #s) on the Safari and not ferrous.
Click to expand...

Hello, I read that post and believe that guy is wrong. I search in conductive sounds with my Quattro and if I have a question on a signal I would check it with ferrous all metal mode. The TID numbers are the same for both modes. I looked at the Etrac manual and the Etrac has ferrous range of 1-35 and conductive range of 1-51. With an Etrac you can hunt in ferrous sounds or conductive sounds. I have read some of the post on the Etrac forum, and when looking for coins you are looking for low ferrous numbers like 1 or a 2. So I guessing that TID number for the Quattro/Safari are conductive and it would make sense since the TID range is -10 to 40 and that is 51 TID numbers. It would not make any sense to have the ferrous numbers on the screen for the Quattro/Safari.

It would have been nice if Minelab would have included both numbers on the screen to give you a little bit more information. Maybe I will think about buying a used Explorer.

John
 
John, I'm thinking you are right but I wanted to run this by you guys to be sure I wasn't missing something. I'm new to the Safari and I search in the conductive mode but on a few targets that I want to cross-check I check them in ferrous. I notice the sounds may change but the numbers stay the same. My conclusion is that the Safari does not show ferrous numbers. I tested in my 'Test Garden' both in conductive and ferrous and get the same numbers which are conductive.

My reason for posting the question is that if the Safari is supposed to show both numbers then my new machine has a problem and I need to get it replaced.

Thanks for your reply, maybe others will chime in and verify.

Don or Daug
 
Hello, I have a Quattro, which should be the same. To me it seems that either the TID meter is based on "ferrous" or is a combination of both. Let me explain why I think that.

When using "ferrous" audio, the tones correspond quite well to the numbers I see on the screen. Low tone for negative numbers and the higher number, the higher tone it is.

However, in "conductive" sounds, iron (minus numbers) sounds a high tone as iron is a relatively good conductor. Cu-Ni, nickel coins, aluminium give a middle tone in both modes, gold as well, and register
somewhere around 10-20. Copper and aluminium bronze coins give a high tone as well, but the meter reads above 30.

Therefore I hunt in "conductive" audio and I think the numbers show me information about ferrous content. I have some 20 hours only with the Quattro, but the things I find seem to support my theory. Anyway, to me the "conductive" mode seems to give more information about the target.
 
pelanj said:
To me it seems that either the TID meter is based on "ferrous" or is a combination of both.
Click to expand...

Ah, your comment sent me to Andy Sabisch's book "The Minelab Quattro & Safari Handbook." On page 35 he records a statement made by one of Minelab's engineers and I quote: "The values assigned are simply relative numbers that provide consistency when similar targets are passed under the coil in the air and as much as possible, buried in the ground. They are not a true measurement of a specific electrical property or parameter." Andy goes on to say that the values are NOT an actual measurement of the ferrous or conductive properties of a target.

So then, if this is true, pelanj is correct in that the TID meter is based on a combination of both ferrous and conductive. Also, if this is true, the numbers do not change on either the Quattro or the Safari when you change search modes from either "Coin" or ""All Metal" (conductive or ferrous). Either way the numbers are relative and will read the same, by changing search modes it ONLY effects the audio and nothing else. The audio thing has already been stated previously by others. .

Does this make sense to you? Agree or disagree?

Where is Andy when we need him? :jump:

Don the Daug
 
kschae4 said:
Don -
You may have to go right to the source and pose your question : http://www.minelab.com/usa/contact-us-3
Click to expand...


Yep sounds like a good idea.
 
I took your advice and e-mailed Minelab with the question. They never responded. Today I used the 'Resend Message' tool. If they will reply I will post it here.

Thank you all for responding to this thread.
 
Thank you letting us know. When I question them on their technology they never responded back.

John
 
I don't think that Minelab will respond since the Quattro/Safari are not supposed to have an audio feature.I remember reading a post by Andy Sabisch, he said in the post that he found the cross saving feature by accident when he was testing the QUATTRO BETA unit. When he asked the Minelab engineers about audio features he was told that it did not have any and wasn't supposed to, so he did not say any more. When he wrote the "Mastering the Minelab Quattro" book, he included it in the book, but it is nowhere in the Quattro/Safari manuals.
 
Bill, you are probably right, I also read that in the Andy Sabisch book, anyway, we shall see. Just for kicks I resent the question to Australia, USA, and Europe Sales, Support, & Service. Maybe one of them will at least reply (I'm not keeping my fingers crossed though).
 
Tonight I received an answer from the Regional General Manager - Consumer Australia. See his answer below;

"Thanks for the questions.

The simple answer is the Safari only tests targets for the conductivity property. It does not have the 2-D target identification capability of the Explorer or E-Trac.

The complex answer relates to the statement that you have from Andy
 
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