CS4pi

[Nauti]

They have had over 25 years to waterproof the control box......its a very old design,not a new detector.It's like their 1220xd,a none motion machine that has been in production for 30+ years and still sells well.....i have one.
The 4 has its roots in Eric Fosters pi designs,i'm sure that has something to do with its "supposed" excellent performance.I suppose that while it still sells well they don't think it necessary to improve it??

 

[Sand Sifter]

They have had over 25 years to waterproof the control box......its a very old design,not a new detector.It's like their 1220xd,a none motion machine that has been in production for 30+ years and still sells well.....i have one.
The 4 has its roots in Eric Fosters pi designs,i'm sure that has something to do with its "supposed" excellent performance.I suppose that while it still sells well they don't think it necessary to improve it??

Seems a lot of the older PI's were based on Eric Fosters designs, that man left his fingerprints on a lot of different detectors, lol. I am by no means qualified to judge or evaluate PI designs, just got my first PI last year after 56 years swinging BBS/SMF, VLF, TR, and BFO detectors, but from what I've seen and have heard, PI circuits tend to be fairly simple, smaller and less complicated than today's modern SMF digital detectors, at least for the White's Surfmaster PI series. My Dual Field has 3 control knobs, the previous PI versions only had 2 control knobs to adjust, so a fairly simple circuit. After the Dual Field, White's released the BeachHunter PI, which has a larger control box, with about 5 or 6 control knobs, and from what I've read, it's basically a TDI SL put into a waterproof enclosure. So, I figure the circuit for the BH is probably more complicated than my Dual Field since it has more adjustment possibilities, but still probably simpler than today's digital circuits.

I hope to learn a lot more about PI's as my wife got me Carl Mooreland's "Inside the Metal Detector" 3rd edition book for Christmas. Carl is a master/genius PI designer and was involved in the design of White's Surfmaster PI's as well as the TDI SL I believe. The book is large with 612 pages, so I'm sure it's going to melt my brain. Carl's probably forgotten more about detector circuits than most of us will ever know, lol.

Just for grins, I posted a capture of my Dual Fields control box. You can see that the box itself isn't that big. I just measured mine and it's 4" wide by 6 & 1/2" long. As you can see in the pic, after removing the top lid, 1/2 of the area inside the box is for the batteries, leaving the other half of the box for the pcb. Based on the size of 4"x6.5", that would only allow a maximum of 4"x3.25" for the pcb, but more likely a bit less than that to allow for the thickness of the box, room to position the pcb and to run wires, etc., so the pcb is probably very small. The pcb is covered so I'm not going to mess with it, but I'd love to take a look at the circuit board. There can't be that many analog components on that small of a pcb, so I assume that the circuit of my Dual Field probably isn't that complex, compared to today's detectors & electronics.

 

[Nauti]

Wow,612 pages about simple pi circuits.......there must be more to them than we thought..
The control box on the 4 is small and as you know only has two control knobs,the sensitivity and pulse control.......its so easy to set up and cscope probably think thats all anybody needs to get great results.......to be fair it probably is.There is a daft little light that lights up when you go over a target but its totally useless as you can't really see it in daylight,maybe cscope thought adding that would make the detector more appealing .
What sort of depths are you getting with the dual field on coins etc......might be interesting in comparing it to the 4 when i get it back and have learned it properly.

 

[Odanscoils]

Seems a lot of the older PI's were based on Eric Fosters designs, that man left his fingerprints on a lot of different detectors, lol. I am by no means qualified to judge or evaluate PI designs, just got my first PI last year after 56 years swinging BBS/SMF, VLF, TR, and BFO detectors, but from what I've seen and have heard, PI circuits tend to be fairly simple, smaller and less complicated than today's modern SMF digital detectors, at least for the White's Surfmaster PI series. My Dual Field has 3 control knobs, the previous PI versions only had 2 control knobs to adjust, so a fairly simple circuit. After the Dual Field, White's released the BeachHunter PI, which has a larger control box, with about 5 or 6 control knobs, and from what I've read, it's basically a TDI SL put into a waterproof enclosure. So, I figure the circuit for the BH is probably more complicated than my Dual Field since it has more adjustment possibilities, but still probably simpler than today's digital circuits.

I hope to learn a lot more about PI's as my wife got me Carl Mooreland's "Inside the Metal Detector" 3rd edition book for Christmas. Carl is a master/genius PI designer and was involved in the design of White's Surfmaster PI's as well as the TDI SL I believe. The book is large with 612 pages, so I'm sure it's going to melt my brain. Carl's probably forgotten more about detector circuits than most of us will ever know, lol.

Just for grins, I posted a capture of my Dual Fields control box. You can see that the box itself isn't that big. I just measured mine and it's 4" wide by 6 & 1/2" long. As you can see in the pic, after removing the top lid, 1/2 of the area inside the box is for the batteries, leaving the other half of the box for the pcb. Based on the size of 4"x6.5", that would only allow a maximum of 4"x3.25" for the pcb, but more likely a bit less than that to allow for the thickness of the box, room to position the pcb and to run wires, etc., so the pcb is probably very small. The pcb is covered so I'm not going to mess with it, but I'd love to take a look at the circuit board. There can't be that many analog components on that small of a pcb, so I assume that the circuit of my Dual Field probably isn't that complex, compared to today's detectors & electronics.

View attachment 84770

Picked up that book myself.
Still thumbing thru.
Interesting reading.
Though gets a little technical.

 

[Sand Sifter]

Wow,612 pages about simple pi circuits.......there must be more to them than we thought..
The control box on the 4 is small and as you know only has two control knobs,the sensitivity and pulse control.......its so easy to set up and cscope probably think thats all anybody needs to get great results.......to be fair it probably is.There is a daft little light that lights up when you go over a target but its totally useless as you can't really see it in daylight,maybe cscope thought adding that would make the detector more appealing .
What sort of depths are you getting with the dual field on coins etc......might be interesting in comparing it to the 4 when i get it back and have learned it properly.

It's not just about PI's; it covers all metal detector technology from the beginning. There's chapters on BFO detectors, TR's, VLF's, PI's, Multifrequency, coils, just about everything you'd want to know/learn about detectors. I started with a BFO Heathkit back around 69', then upgraded to a White's Coinmaster IV TR in 71', then moved to VLF's, BBS/SMF, and finally got myself a PI last year. It's a pretty technical book, so sometimes, I need to re-read paragraphs, but he does include a lot of drawings, charts, schematics, etc., to help explain things visually.

I've only had the Dual Field out 4 times so far, and the last time was when I was really sick when I hunted for 2 days after a nor'easter. I could only last 3 hours on day 1, and 2 hours on the 2nd day. But on that 2nd day, I found a coin line in the wet and worked that to the right side until it ran out, then turned around and worked the same line to the left side of the wet. Found more coins and a Sterling Silver .925 ring with stones all the way around. They're very small, look like diamonds, so probably either chips or fakes, I guess. I haven't tested the stones, so can't say either way, but I was so sick when I found it, it was still a big thrill. IIRC, I think I dug 2 or 3 scoopfuls to get it, along with the coins. So, I'd estimate depth somewhere in the 10" - 15" range.

 

[Odanscoils]

It's not just about PI's; it covers all metal detector technology from the beginning. There's chapters on BFO detectors, TR's, VLF's, PI's, Multifrequency, coils, just about everything you'd want to know/learn about detectors. I started with a BFO Heathkit back around 69', then upgraded to a White's Coinmaster IV TR in 71', then moved to VLF's, BBS/SMF, and finally got myself a PI last year. It's a pretty technical book, so sometimes, I need to re-read paragraphs, but he does include a lot of drawings, charts, schematics, etc., to help explain things visually.

I've only had the Dual Field out 4 times so far, and the last time was when I was really sick when I hunted for 2 days after a nor'easter. I could only last 3 hours on day 1, and 2 hours on the 2nd day. But on that 2nd day, I found a coin line in the wet and worked that to the right side until it ran out, then turned around and worked the same line to the left side of the wet. Found more coins and a Sterling Silver .925 ring with stones all the way around. They're very small, look like diamonds, so probably either chips or fakes, I guess. I haven't tested the stones, so can't say either way, but I was so sick when I found it, it was still a big thrill. IIRC, I think I dug 2 or 3 scoopfuls to get it, along with the coins. So, I'd estimate depth somewhere in the 10" - 15" range.

View attachment 84820

View attachment 84821

Sweet.
Haven't found a line in quite awhile.

 

[Nauti]

It's not just about PI's; it covers all metal detector technology from the beginning. There's chapters on BFO detectors, TR's, VLF's, PI's, Multifrequency, coils, just about everything you'd want to know/learn about detectors. I started with a BFO Heathkit back around 69', then upgraded to a White's Coinmaster IV TR in 71', then moved to VLF's, BBS/SMF, and finally got myself a PI last year. It's a pretty technical book, so sometimes, I need to re-read paragraphs, but he does include a lot of drawings, charts, schematics, etc., to help explain things visually.

I've only had the Dual Field out 4 times so far, and the last time was when I was really sick when I hunted for 2 days after a nor'easter. I could only last 3 hours on day 1, and 2 hours on the 2nd day. But on that 2nd day, I found a coin line in the wet and worked that to the right side until it ran out, then turned around and worked the same line to the left side of the wet. Found more coins and a Sterling Silver .925 ring with stones all the way around. They're very small, look like diamonds, so probably either chips or fakes, I guess. I haven't tested the stones, so can't say either way, but I was so sick when I found it, it was still a big thrill. IIRC, I think I dug 2 or 3 scoopfuls to get it, along with the coins. So, I'd estimate depth somewhere in the 10" - 15" range.

View attachment 84820

View attachment 84821

Sounds like a great read.Sounds like your pi is working really well,hope the 4 gives me the same sort of depths.That ring is a little beauty........seeing stuff like that makes me want to get on the beach all the more,can't wait to get my pi back.

 

[LawrencetheMDer]

Thanks, just ordered Carl Mooreland's "Inside the Metal Detector" 3rd edition. Been looking for an updated book to better understand the inside of a metal detector and Mooreland's fits the bill.

 

[Odanscoils]

Thanks, just ordered Carl Mooreland's "Inside the Metal Detector" 3rd edition. Been looking for an updated book to better understand the inside of a metal detector and Mooreland's fits the bill.

Enjoy.
It can be a little complicated.
Do like you did in school.
Look up the big or misunderstood words.

 

[Sand Sifter]

Sounds like a great read.Sounds like your pi is working really well,hope the 4 gives me the same sort of depths.That ring is a little beauty........seeing stuff like that makes me want to get on the beach all the more,can't wait to get my pi back.

The most important thing for me and the PI when I found those coins and the ring is I actually got to hear their specific tone signatures. It was a combination of size, quality, and same tone in whatever direction I swung, sounded totally different than all the other targets. Since I was so friggin' sick that day, once I found a couple of coins and heard what they sounded like, I focused on those specific tones and started digging coins, one after another.

I was surprised to get what I thought was a coin tone, then it turned out to be the ring, but it's circular like a coin so probably why it gave me the same type of signature tone. BTW, a dime fits exactly inside of that ring, lol. And now that I know what that ring and coins sounded like, that should help me avoid a lot more junky targets with the PI.

 

[Sand Sifter]

Thanks, just ordered Carl Mooreland's "Inside the Metal Detector" 3rd edition. Been looking for an updated book to better understand the inside of a metal detector and Mooreland's fits the bill.

Carl is either a friggin' genius or has taken copious notes during his career, maybe a combination of the two. I can't believe all the detailed information he has compiled in that book, probably why it's 612 pages, lol.

 

[Sand Sifter]

Sweet.
Haven't found a line in quite awhile.

It had been a while for me as well, but once I hit that line, I milked it until it ran out, then turned around and worked the same line on the other side of the beach. I always get a kick when looking back at the holes I dug in the wet and can see a pretty well-defined line in the sand, lol.

 

[tvr]

It had been a while for me as well, but once I hit that line, I milked it until it ran out, then turned around and worked the same line on the other side of the beach. I always get a kick when looking back at the holes I dug in the wet and can see a pretty well-defined line in the sand, lol.

One thing I'll do when I don't want to fight the waves and decide to stay in the wet sand is, when I find a target I'll start at that point and start a spiral out from the target and see if I get more targets in about five or six spirals around the first target. Spirals are close enough to make sure I get very good coverage of the entire area as I work out away from the found target. Sometimes I get more hits and often the hits form a line. I'll then expand the line and hunt that line pretty thoroughly.

 

[Odanscoils]

One thing I'll do when I don't want to fight the waves and decide to stay in the wet sand is, when I find a target I'll start at that point and start a spiral out from the target and see if I get more targets in about five or six spirals around the first target. Spirals are close enough to make sure I get very good coverage of the entire area as I work out away from the found target. Sometimes I get more hits and often the hits form a line. I'll then expand the line and hunt that line pretty thoroughly.

One of my favorite beaches for lines.
Was Mentor Headlands Beach.
Mentor OH.
One of the largest beaches from Cleveland to the PA line.

Has dozens of lines.
About 300' from the sidewalk to the beach.
I never detected it all. Impossible it seems.

Had different groups varying distances.

The towel tanners with in a hundred ft of the concession stands.
Has about 8 of those.

The drinkers.
Far enough out the rangers rarely walked out to them.

Then the swimmers who would setup within a hundred ft of the shore.

I always wanted to detect the Cleveland beaches.
Always Leary of going there.
Gangbangers pretty much run it anymore.

 

[Nauti]

The most important thing for me and the PI when I found those coins and the ring is I actually got to hear their specific tone signatures. It was a combination of size, quality, and same tone in whatever direction I swung, sounded totally different than all the other targets. Since I was so friggin' sick that day, once I found a couple of coins and heard what they sounded like, I focused on those specific tones and started digging coins, one after another.

I was surprised to get what I thought was a coin tone, then it turned out to be the ring, but it's circular like a coin so probably why it gave me the same type of signature tone. BTW, a dime fits exactly inside of that ring, lol. And now that I know what that ring and coins sounded like, that should help me avoid a lot more junky targets with the PI.

Mine is due back sometime next week so im hoping to go out with it next weekend.Hopefully i can tune my ears to the targets and avoid some trash,luckily,some of the beaches i detect on aren't too badly contaminated with ferous items.

 

[Sand Sifter]

Mine is due back sometime next week so im hoping to go out with it next weekend.Hopefully i can tune my ears to the targets and avoid some trash,luckily,some of the beaches i detect on aren't too badly contaminated with ferous items.

It's super important, especially with a PI, to sweep in various directions when getting a signal. I might get a quick blip, then when I scan 90 degrees, the signal becomes long and drawn out. That's a pretty good indication of a tent stake. But that said, might it also be a cell phone, as that would give a shorter blip in one direction but a longer drawn-out signal in a 90-degree sweep. I was really sick that day that I found the ring, so I focused on cherry picking tones similar to the coin signal to conserve my strength. So that day was an anomaly. General rule for me is to dig everything, because what I think might be a tent stake might turn out to be a cell phone or stretched out bracelet/chain, just never know.