Custom/Light Weight GT Picture

[Critterhunter]

OK, I'm all set to order the Whites arm cup and whatever other parts I need to mount the box and get rid of the heavy 8.8oz Minelab arm cup, but first a few questions to clear things up for me...

First, the only arm cup for a Whites I can find is the one they sell at the Whites home page. It's described as being "stronger/thicker" material than the standard Whites arm cup. That concerns me since weight is my primary goal. Since you guys have had this thing in your hand would you say it's a lot lighter than the Sovereign arm cup? I would expect it is because the one for the GT is a boat anchor.

Secondly, I'm still a bit confused on how I can mount the box to the shaft without the slot on the stock arm cup. From what I think you're saying I need to order a Elite or Advantage box mount clip for the S shaft? If I'm reading you right (?) then I'd also need to get another V-clip like the one used for the meter. Bolt or rivet the V-clip onto the bottom of the shaft and then install the box mount clip, then the GT control box will clip right onto that? If the stock box clip will also mount on that thing in some way (you seem to hint to that by taking it apart) then I wouldn't need to buy one? Sorry for the questions but I can't seem to figure this thing out from the pictures.

Also, if anybody has any of the things I need for sale, including any Whites arm cup, I'd be willing to buy them from you rather than order new, though the Whites arm cup with strap is only $10. Where can I find the V-clip or any of the other parts as well without going directly to Minelab?

 

[kered]

The Elite/GT or Advantage box mount clip for the S shaft comes with 2 holes to rivet it onto the shaft, you could probably use the one you have with a few mods

 

[Critterhunter]

Oh, I think I see now. They are just the normal clip but riveted to the shaft, so I could just drill two rivet holes into my current box clip (if it doesn't already have them) to mount it to the shaft without needing to buy another. I was thinking those clips were designed to attach to a V-clip, unlike the GT's which is held in place by sliding it between the two halves of the arm cup and then bolting the arm cup down. Do I have this right? If that's the case then I'll only need to order the Whites arm cup I guess? Thanks for the help in clearing this up.

 

[kered]

i think you have it.
The XS shaft has V clips as the box is fixed on that way, the elite has both with V clip being on top for the meter(i'm talking S shaft here as even the new GT's come with the damn thing here in europe)

 

[Neil]

Oh, I think I see now. They are just the normal clip but riveted to the shaft, so I could just drill two rivet holes into my current box clip (if it doesn't already have them) to mount it to the shaft without needing to buy another. I was thinking those clips were designed to attach to a V-clip, unlike the GT's which is held in place by sliding it between the two halves of the arm cup and then bolting the arm cup down. Do I have this right? If that's the case then I'll only need to order the Whites arm cup I guess? Thanks for the help in clearing this up.

Critter if the one your referring to is the one that mounts under your armrest, your gonna need to seperate that by drilling out the two rivets on it. think careful about doing that, getting it back together if you ever wanted to go back that way would be a bit tough, at least with the rivet gun I have which leaves a portion of the rivet behind.(what you have there is a two piece arrangement, the piece that holds the box and the piece that slides under the armcuff. you will need to seperate those two to get the piece that holds the box so it mounts flush on your rod). sorry, Im trying not to be confusing, hard to do sometimes in describing somethings.

 

[Critterhunter]

No, you both did a good job and I got it now. I'll see if the "two piece" box clip can just be drilled completely through for two rivets without having to separate it. I'd rather keep things stock for re-sale so all can go back on the stock shaft and such, but I don't think I'll mind drilling two holes into the box clip, which wouldn't even show when the box is mounted anyway in stock form inside the stock arm cup. Just like my home made detector stand I'd rather use aluminum rivets than nuts/bolts because weight savings is my entire goal and aluminum rivets is as light as it gets. Thanks again...

 

[Critterhunter]

The lipo combined with the custom shaft really has the GT feeling light and easy to use now. After a 7 hour hunt I don't feel any arm fatigue and a lot less stiffness in my back. Just ordered the Whites arm cup so that's the next mod. After that I'm doing the spray on bed liner on the 15x12 so I don't have to use the coil cover and that should save about 3.6 ounces or very close to it. Next mod will then maybe be shortening down the coil and meter cables. I'll convert the cut off lengths into extensions so they can go back to being "stock" length for re-sale value or when I'm water hunting and want to chest mount the box.

 

[Critterhunter]

Got my "heavy duty" $10 Whites arm cup with strap in the mail the other day. I would have just bought the stock one for a Whites but they only listed this one. Either way, it doesn't look any heavier than any normal Whites arm cup. In fact, looks the same to me but don't have a Whites machine to compare it with along side at the moment. Anyway, the stock GT arm cup with strap is 8.8 ounces, over half a pound. This Whites one with strap is only 3.1 ounces! I am very happy that I'll be shaving yet even more weight off my custom GT, this time another 5.7 ounces- roughly 1/3rd pound more weight lost. The GT running a lipo and with my custom upper shaft and Whites Tall Man lower carbon shaft has already really dropped a good bit of weight in the feel of the machine, not to mention with the lighter/better custom hand grip and remote pinpoint to really set the thing off in feel and use. I'm even more convinced now that I'll be well over 20 ounces or at least a pound and a half or more off the weight of a stock GT, and that's still with me using the 15x12 coil. Once I lose the coil cover which weights 3.6 ounces and spray it with bed liner to protect it and then maybe shorten the coil/meter cables I might be pushing close to two pounds or so of lost weight. I'm anxious to see what machines I'll be lighter than including some Whites I've owned in the past.

Anybody know a local store that might sell those rubber selve sticking pads that Whites use inside the arm cup to keep it from slipping? I may put those in if I feel it's too slick without it but I don't want to order something like that. Maybe Home Depot or somebody like Office Max sells those things for things like sticking under office equipment to cut down on vibration.

Pictures/details soon.

 

[kered]

Hope you took he weight of the stock setup befor you started so you can let us know the total weight saving

 

[Critterhunter]

I've weighed most of the stock parts, so it will only take weighing a few other things to total up the stock weight. I might just throw all the stock parts for the GT into a box and weigh it. Everything, including control box, stock coil, shaft/grip, and the stock rechargable pack. When I'm done with this custom job I'll be doing that to post totals. Or, if somebody wants to save me the hassle of taking everything off my custom GT to weigh the stock unit please post a weight, including stock 10" coil and with rechargable pack and all other stock hardware on it. That would really be a big help, but I'll take it apart and weigh it all if I have to.

 

[Critterhunter]

Today I put the Whites arm cup on my GT. It was easy to do. With the stock arm cup still in place on the shaft I just drilled right through the two rivets on the plastic mount that the control box snaps to, drilling all the way into the shaft. These two rivets are what holds the two plastic parts together that the box snaps onto. Once drilled I removed the inner plastic piece since it is no longer needed in order to attach to the stock arm cup via the slots on it. I then took the lower box clip and placed in onto the bottom of the Whites arm cup in the proper spot, which I noted where it would go in relation to the clip/shaft before doing anything. Drilled through the now existing hole in the box clip (where the rivet was) and through the Whites arm cup. Used a rivet to secure them both to the shaft, and then I placed another rivet through the box clip where I had drilled the other rivet out to secure the clip more securely to the shaft. Didn't need to put any bolts or rivets anywhere else, as the whole thing is rather snug and tight, so that eliminated the need for a bolt or rivet through the side of the arm cup like the Whites cup would normally be secured to a shaft. After all that jazz I popped the plastic end cap off the shaft and turned it upside down and tapped on it to make sure any aluminum debri was not inside the shaft and would find it's way down to near the coil causing any performance problems.

Anyway, just weighed my custom GT's new weight with lipo battery, all the other previous mentioned mods, and now the Whites arm cup with strap. Even with the 15x12 SEF coil on she's at 4 pounds 13.6 ounces (77.6 ounces) now! That's without my Sony Studio Headphones, where are light anyway. I can not believe how much lighter this thing feels over a stock GT. Like a completely different machine. Next mod will be to remove the coil cover and spray the coil with 3 or 4 coats of spray on Bed Liner (Rustoleum). That should save another 3.6 ounces. After that I may shorten the coil cables which from memory I think will save me about 5 to 8 more ounces, so the final weight of this machine could be just over 4 pounds, some where around 4.2oz probably.

I'm not sure what the weight of a stock GT with 10" coil and rechargeable battery pack is and can't find anything on the net, so if anybody cares to quickly weigh there stock GT for me I'd appreciate it. That will save me having to pull everything apart so I can do that myself. I think though that I can figure out total weight savings over a stock GT because I took notes and have the stock weights over various parts and my replacement ones. If you do decide to weigh it don't have your headphones on it. Thanks in advance should anybody care to help.

Am also curious what a stock Whites like say a QXT or 6000 pro xl weighs. Can't seem to find any of those weights on the net either but this thing feels lighter.

Heading out for a day's hunt in a little bit here. Beautiful day for hunting...

 

[Dig]

Be careful...these cups break over time.

by removing that arm cuff setup which is pretty heavy, installing a whites armcuff with strap and mounting the control box mount under and through the whites arm cuff with rivets. you will have to drill out the arm cuff holes to accomodate the minelab 1/4" nylon bolts as you mount it to the rod. that alone has gotta be about a 5 or more ounce savings. also I dont know what your using for a lower rod, but the tesoro lower rods are a little on the short side but they are as light as it gets, have a hole right through the middle of them for draining when you wade and the difference at the end where the coil meets can be made up with a thicker washer. if youve made your aluminum rod long enough the difference in the lower rod length doesnt even matter.

Neil, have you seen this Whites arm cup used on a Sovereign? If so, how did they do it? The only way I can see doing this is by drilling through the side of the Minelab box clip and then mounting that just below the arm cup via some kind of bracket that will allow it to bolt through the Whites arm cup bolts just above it, as I can't think of any way to mount the box clip inside or between the arm cup. It isn't split in half like a Minelab arm cup and even if it was there wouldn't be enough gap in the pole mount area for the box clip to ride inside like it does on the stock Minelab cup. Just trying to figure out which way I want to go with this. Whites arm cups are only $10 and come with the arm strap and I figure it's probably half the weight or less than the stock 8.8oz arm cup, which is over half a pound when you think about it.

I still haven't ordered one. The only thing I see listed on Whites website is a heavy duty arm cup that is said to be stronger than the original. Not sure how much more it weighs than the standard Whites cup. Before I commit to buying one to mod in some way I'm going to look into other ideas that might work. I could bend a blank piece of aluminum into the proper dimensions, find an aluminum coffee pot or something else round to hack up, or go with perhaps a plastic or PVC drain pipe cut up to what I want. The main concern is weight. It needs to be lighter than the stock one otherwise what's the point.

Heavy Duty Arm Cup
Matte (Flat Black). Thicker material than standard. Recommended for heavy sand, brush, or water use. Non adjustment hole position. Comes with arm cup strap.
P/N 802-5257

 

[Critterhunter]

Supposed to be more "heavy duty" than a stock Whites arm cup and I've never had those break on me from years of abuse. I don't see where they'd even fail because it's just one entire piece of aluminum. Where are you finding them to fail exactly?

 

[Dig]

Well I am using them in the saltwater so that could have something to do with it but, I have had two crack and tear apart from strain over time.

 

[Critterhunter]

I could see water hunting being a problem. That's why I plan to use the stock shafts & cup for any water hunting with it. I will be using one of the ergonomic rubber grips that I didn't use on my custom shaft with the stock hardware, though. Just feels so much better than the foam stock grip.

 

[Critterhunter]

I finally got around to timing just how much run time I'm getting on these little lipo packs a friend gave me. One is 450ma and the other is 500. Both are giving me about 8 hours of run time, or at least somewhere in the 7 1/2 to 8 1/2 hour run time before the low battery alarm on my GT kicks in. The measured voltage at the alarm time is about 10.60 volts, which is more than safe to keep a lipo from being drawn below 9V (3V per cell), which would probably destroy the lipo. I did the math and that tells me that the GT is drawing roughly 59MA per hour based on my best estimate of run time, which I wasn't exact on due to forgetting to check the time while taking breaks and shutting the machine off and such, but it's close to say within a half hour or so.

Like I said before, I wouldn't use a 3 cell lipo this small but these were free. I'd opt for a 1000ma lipo to match and probably beat the stock pack, since a lipo holds it's voltage high to the very end unlike nimhs/nicads which drop much faster in voltage as they discharge. Even a 2000ma lipo will be much lighter than the stock rechargable pack and that will at least double your run time to probably something in the 40 or 50 hour range or maybe more.

 

[kered]

I'm still waiting for deans conectors that i ordered from UK, this Volcanic dust particle clouds from the Icelandic eruption is causing havoc with international airmail deliveries, normally takes 5-6 days and i'm waiting over 2 weeks, I could use other type of connector but i'd rather be safe than sorry the batteries being lipos

 

[Critterhunter]

I'm anxious to hear how you like using those lipos once you get the connectors you need. Forgot to mention that when I did the math on the amp draw of the GT that was based on how many MA was put back into the lipo after it hit the low voltage alarm on the GT. The 450ma 3 cell pack took 449MA when re-charged. 449 divided by 7 1/2 hours was about 59.8MA per hour. Might be a bit higher or lower since the run time might have been around 8 to 8 1/2 hours or as little as just over 7. Wasn't real precise with keeping track of the time. Anyway, I'm happy to see that the lipo took 449ma since it was only drained down to 10.6V when the low battery alarm hit. That means that had the pack been drained to just above 9V like the normal cycle of a lipo the capacity put back in would be well above the 450ma it lists on the label. That tells me the pack is in pretty good shape. Still need to check the capacity put back into my 500ma pack once it hits LVC (low voltage cutoff, or alarm as most know it). I'd expect it to take more than 449ma but if it's anything less than that tells me that that pack isn't as healthy as the 450ma one.

Kered, I know you've already got your packs and I'm sure they'll be great, but in the future if you are in the market for more lipos I'd lean towards Long Max, Rhinos, or Zippys. They've all been proven to be great packs in RC. Then again, Hobby King keeps switching the labels on their packs and many of them are the same regardless of what the label on the pack says. I think the Turnigys are Rhinos or Long Max, and so on.

 

[Critterhunter]

Several people have been emailing me complaining about the Whites Tall Man rod being $20 and not $10. I could have swore I paid $10 for mine from Whites, but I just looked on their website and yes it's $20 now. Hey, either they raised the price or I remembered wrong when I said $10. So don't shoot me, I don't set prices. Either way, at $20 it's still cheaper than the stock Minelab rod and much lighter.

While your on there I'd also pick up the $10 "heavy duty" arm cup from Whites (maybe that price is wrong too...check) which comes with a strap. The stock GT one weighs 8.8oz, over half a pound! The Whites one is much lighter. Drill out the two rivets on your two piece box clip that is normaly held onto the shaft by the stock arm cup. You only need the lower half since that's the only part the GT box clips to. Drill and rivet it onto your shaft, as well as the Whites arm cup. I'm pretty sure I just used one of the two rivets for the box clip to also hold the Whites arm cup in place and it's sturdy as heck.

Further details in the mod forum in the Sovereign GT Mods thread. Here's the Whites link with the lower Tall Man rod and the arm cup. Make sure you order the lower Tall Man fiber rod and not the Tall Man rod meant for the middle of a Whites shaft or whatever.

Also, if you've got a Hobby Town near you they are a Whites dealer and my local one has the lower Tall Man rod for $10. I should pick that up for my other coils to make swapping them faster.

http://whiteselectronics.com/products/accessories/replacementparts.html

 

[plugger]

n/t