CZ-3D: A Step Backwards?

[mrwilburino]

I just read the post about the CZ-5 being sold on Ebay. I checked out the listing and this is what the seller had to say:

"The CZ-5 in my opinion was the BEST of the CZ Series. Before Fisher was sold to First Texas, they re-badged the CZ-5 into the CZ-3D and Monkey'd with the software changing some of the calibration and this resulted in a step back-wards and problems with Nickel ID.... NOT with the CZ-5 a better thought out detector from the mind of Dave Johnson, leading project engineer."

My 3D has been great on nickels though some people have said otherwise, but what is the "step backwards" that this person is referring to? Is it the 3D's tendency to high-tone on rusty nails? Something else?

 

[JeffNS]

Not a step backwards...just a variation of. Depending on your ultimate goal one unit may serve a persons needs more so than the other. CZ5 was a three tone machine with nickels IDng on the scale as is the norm with other units....always a mid tone. Among other tweaks, the 3D prevents hearing fatigue by simplifying things a bit...no need to listen to the mid tones as much...for coin shooters at least. Just dig all the high tones kind of thing. I believe the 3D is a modified CZ6a not CZ5 but I could be mistaken. Both machines are very capable units from what I've read and so far have experienced with my 3D. The brand new CZ5 on Ebay is a cool find but not sure I'd want to spend what it's going to go for in the end. Last time I looked bidding was at $550 US. Of course, it comes with warranty...and possibly lifetime if Fisher honors it.

I'm curious what Tom Dankowski think of Dave's quote..if in fact it's true. I'm going to post it on Tom Dankowski's site and ask him just that.

 

[cometguy]

Hmmmmmmmm, which detector was he selling? Which did he say the best things about? Which was he trying to get three hundred or so dollars more than the typical used one sell for - - - I bet CZ 5. I sure wouldn't be bailing out of my CZ3d for a chance to try a CZ 5. However, given the chance, I would try a CZ 5. I carried a CZ70 to California to beach hunt and loved it. They all work and do what Fisher says they do.
Don't get wrapped up too much in an opinion. The nice thing about these Fishers they are available and fairly inexpensive so we can play with all them. Pick yours and have fun. If you get the chance try some of the others too. I know I still want to get my hands on an early CZ 3d.

Don
HH

 

[yardhunter]

I
Before Fisher was sold to First Texas, they re-badged the CZ-5 into the CZ-3D and Monkey'd with the software changing some of the calibration and this resulted in a step back-wards and problems with Nickel ID.... NOT with the CZ-5 a better thought out detector from the mind of Dave Johnson, leading project engineer."

?

Looks like a sales gimmick to sell the machine............probably to someone who has not used a 3D..............see ya mark.

 

[HaroldILL.]

First of all I have nothing to do with the sale of the CZ-5. But as far as the comment about him trying to get 300.00 over the price of a normal CZ-5, remember this detector is brand new in the box not used and scratched up. Some die hard cz guys would consider that a collectable! Beside's someone must have thought it was worth it. I seen where it sold for 550.00! I guess considering the cost of high end detectors today that's a great price! I would rather have that machine than a brand new F-75 any day!.

 

[Dan-Pa.]

Just one mans opinion and used correctly sort of two detectors in one..basically one for new areas and one for extremely old areas...Where the nickle problem comes in when the toggle is set for old areas it goes lower to catch older nickles such as V and Shield which come in lower on any unit due to metal makeup. In reallity its a two headed sword and using the unit in a new area set with the toggle for old areas does cause a problem as you would have to dig a lot of junk and miss many new Jefferson nickles. Having used every CZ model ever made they basically all go as deep and have the same stability and of course some are hotter depending on their tuning. All in all I think the problem is lack of ability and understanding of the operator with a CZ3D but they can be deadly in real old areas and with a flip of the toggle work well in new areas also. As far as E-bay adds go seller might say anything for personal gains and would shop the metal detector classifieds or deal directly with a Fisher dealer as you are usually dealing with a detectorist of sorts, not some pawn shop or whatever that doesn't know a detector from a broom.
Down and dirty Nasa Tom did a great job with the CZ3D and used correctly is certainly a nice modified unit added to the CZ line...

 

[cometguy]

Hey Dan,
I just had a fun and great demonstration of the CZ 3d and its love of old nickels. I was hunting one of my favorite spots. The kind of place we really should give up on, but because of the shade or the atmosphere we keep going back. I changed to new batteries and was wandering around and I got a very, very faint signal. I am always surprised when this place gives anything up after all of these years. I took a healthy five inches of ground out and the signal got much better. My probe still wouldn't pick up the target. One more scoop out of the hold and the pin pointer came to life. It took me a while to run it down but I came up with an 1895 nickel. It had quite a bit of wear but I still love finding them. I almost always hunt in the enhanced mode. I very seldom hit truly modern areas so it is a great fit for me. Thanks for your input.

Don
HH

 

[therover]

Just what the 3D and enhanced mode is made for. Old sites and bringing old coins out of the ground.

 

[JeffNS]

Yep...it'll find oldies...but I found these babies in Salt mode. For whatever reason my 3D isn't tuned to spec which hasn't posed a problem for me...at least not yet. Although I probably sacrifice an inch of so of depth. Found these two coins a foot apart from one another at about 4" deep. Silver coin is a 1900 Cdn. Ten Cent, The old copper is a 1910 Cdn. Large Cent.

 

[HaroldILL.]

If a person takes the time to learn a cz-5 it will find as many deep old nickels as a CZ-3D. Instead of a straight nickel reading you will get a nickel foil bounce. If it doesn't bounce it is most likely foil. But I will admit there is one thing a CZ-3D will do that no other machine will do. That is give a high tone on a 5 dollar gold piece ,That is if your lucky enough to walk over one.

 

[cometguy]

I know those old nickels aren't worth a lot, but I think the same thing that you mentioned every time it goes high tone. If I can find those old nickels, I will find that $5 gold piece when I walk over it. Only a nickel, but it could have been a gold piece.

Don
HH

 

[JeffNS]

I personally dig ALL mid - high tones and only ignore the low iron tone. Doing so renders identification accuracy of any detector a moot point. You'll dig alot more trash items using this method but you'll never miss a goodie that you're lucky enough to swing your coil over. If I happen to be in a very high trash area I will sometimes become a bit more selective but for the most part I dig everything. Depth on the CZ series is awesome.

 

[Boston Metal]

I personally dig ALL mid - high tones and only ignore the low iron tone. Doing so renders identification accuracy of any detector a moot point. You'll dig alot more trash items using this method but you'll never miss a goodie that you're lucky enough to swing your coil over. If I happen to be in a very high trash area I will sometimes become a bit more selective but for the most part I dig everything. Depth on the CZ series is awesome.

Hi Jeff, I noticed you also have an F4. Can you give me some idea of how much additonal depth you get on the CZ verses the f4?

Frank

 

[JeffNS]

Frank,

Funny you should ask...I just performed a depth test with my F4 versus the CZ3D. Depth on a dime on the F4 with sensitivity set to a "stable/no chatter" level was 6". Depth with CZ3D on a dime with sensitivity at 3 is approx. 10". At max. sensitivity with the CZ3D I was able to ascertain the dime at an incredible 15" and if I were to utilize volume boost (above 5) I could ascertain the dime at almost 18"!! Very faint mind you but there.

6" on a dime with F4 with my sensitivity set at less than half is pretty good imho. If I had been in an area with less interference (EMI) I would have been able to run my sensitivity much higher and I'm sure the F4 could easily detect a dime at 8" under optimum conditions. There's a few more experienced F4 users (Bthom) here on the forum that can probably give you more information.

In a nutshell though...any of the CZ detectors will slam an F4 on any depth test...along with many other models on the market for that matter.

 

[Boston Metal]

I appreciate the information. In my soil conditions, using the 11" DD, after ground balancing, sensitivity set at factory (3/4 I believe) and in discrmination mode with only the iron sgments discriminated out I have dug out a dime on a perfectly solid tone at 8 inches. Pinpoint actually read 10 inches, but I measured the depth at just over 8. I am ging to need to add a machine with more depth to the arsenal next year and a used CZ3D is appearing to be a good option. I gather from my reading on the forum that the CZ3D isn't a good choice for newer sites, do you agree with that? How about sites that are old, but also contain a ton of non obsolete coins? Does the salt mode work well for you at the beach?

Frank

 

[JeffNS]

My CZ3D isn't quite tuned like a standard CZ3D but that's another story. In any case, in more modern/trashy sites I've found that operating in Salt Mode works best for me and provided more accurate target ID...but remember...I'm hunting Cdn. coins and they differ in composition from US coinage. I can't say with certainty if Enhanced mode works better in the US but I'm assuming it does...however, in Enhanced mode, a significant number of square tabs will read as Nickel/Hi Tone...as will other trash at times. Salt Mode appears to provide more accurate target ID in most situations. There doesn't appear to be much loss of depth when in Salt mode. Enhanced mode is of no use in Canada as far as I can tell but more testing is required in this area and I may have my unit custom tuned to allow for some Cdn vs. US coin anomolies. Two of the features of the CZ3D I do like are the fact that it has 7 target windows...with NO ID#'s. I like this because it forces me to dig more targets I might otherwise pass if I was using a TID unit like the F4 which provided target segments as well as #'s from 0-99. I personally find the TID machines a bit fatiguing in comparison. Another 3D feature..unique to the 3D...is the added 4th tone for foil. It's between a low iron tone and a mid tone. Reasoning is that MOST gold rings fall in the foil range and if you had only one range to dig in the search for gold rings this would be it. (I'm waiting for the arguments to start now ) MOST gold rings are women's rings and women's rings are MOST likely to contain valueable gemstones. Having the 4th tone allow you to non-visually identify those desireable targets without having to look at the meter. Simple yet effective. Only difference between CZ5 and 3D is the 4th tone and the custom nickel "window" which brought nickels into the hitone range of targets when in Enhanced mode.

As far as beach hunting is concerned I've only just recently spent any amount of time in the wet, salt sand and the CZ3D ground balances with no problem. Was running AutoTune with Sens maxed and was digging rusty staples at 8" and found a few coins in the wet stuff at similiar depths. Runs very stable.

 

[mrwilburino]

And on a side note.....

The same CZ-5 that started this discussion was returned to the original seller and is now back up on ebay.