CZ's and masking...

[Dan-Pa.]

Got a deep high tone and dug approx. 6 inches and laid my steel digger approx. 18 inches from the hole on top of ground to further locate the exact position with my coil.
The signal was gone so I felt it was a ghost signal picked up my digger and went over hole again and high tone was back...so an object doesn't have to be next to the coin to be masked and if a horsehoe or can is in the ground 18 inches away you are not going to hear target in many cases. Yep it turned out to be a deep Barber dime..Sort of a test of masking under natural conditions...not man made conditions for testing...

 

[HaroldILL.]

How deep was it Dan? Fat boy on another Forum claims CZs can't hit dimes past 9"? Ha!

 

[Dan-Pa.]

11-12 inches.....perhaps his unit is not properly calibrated....if I had a CZ that couldn't get a dime at 9 inches in ground where it counts T.D. would surely be calibrating it..
Personally not into air tests...we don't find treasure in the air....

 

[tvr]

I did some tests a few years back where I took iron objects and placed them at various depths and distances from a good target to see how they masked the target.

Depth of the masking target with respect to the good target has a lot to do with what is masked and not masked. A 4 penny nail that is sitting next to a dime at the same depth, in many cases, will let you get a tone on the dime, even it is a broken tone or a one way tone. Raise the nail to slightly shallower than the dime and you are not likely to see the dime at all. An overwhelmingly large piece of iron will mask good targets that are above it too. Listening to all tones, sweeping slow from multiple directions over a target and paying attention to tone chirps can help unmask.

If you have seen Monte's nail board test, where all the nails and good target are on the same plane but in specific orientations, you can see how different detectors with different coils and changes to sweep speeds and sweep directions can behave. There can be many challenges to getting the goods.

 

[therover]

I may have this wrong, but I thought I read in one of Tom D's posts that if a CZ was sub par in the depth department, he couldn't do much about it and surely could not bring it up to the range of the 11-12 inch category.

He could re-calibrate the discriminate windows and do other things, but in terms of adding 2-3 inches of depth to a CZ that is sub par and can only hit dimes at 7-8 inches, he could not.

 

[HaroldILL.]

He can get maybe a inch if Lucky. Mine was a little over 11" and He was able to make it 12.1". The categories were the main problem.

 

[Dan-Pa.]

Relative question you are right some units Tom can add an inch or so and well just are sub-par units....for what its worth have used every CZ ever made(some several different units) and some were sub-par but still went much deeper than air tests....feel ones ground and expertise in using a CZ have a lot to do with getting deep silver...
with your 20 yr plus experience imagine you understand...as your sure one of the oldtimers with CZ's...
PS: am sure the CZ5 I just picked up would give Harolds competition rel depth...

 

[vlad]

(and the number of adjustments that need to be made, around 15-in sequential order can really throw things off)
it is possible that Tom, Keith Wills, or the factory could restore it to those optimum numbers.
But Tom does not work on the digital units, like the 70pro. (and Tom restores it to factory specs--not some magical misalignment of his own)
I have always run a unit with no discrimination; sometimes you can hear a conductive target near a piece of iron--but other times not--and it cuts down on falsing on iron near the edge.
Hitting the target from 2 directions can help too.
(I was wearing jungle boots out hunting once and getting lots of 'good' signals that, disappeared when I tried to home in.
At first I tried to stretch out my arm, but really strained it; I finally had to pull the rod out to add length. )
Bottom line, take more chances and dig questionable signals.

 

[marcomo]

How deep was it Dan? Fat boy on another Forum claims CZs can't hit dimes past 9"? Ha!

The size of the aforementioned fellow's ego makes the Grand Canyon look like a sandbox. I've said that one before but I kind of like it.

He has skill, but not nearly as much as he or his fanboys think he does.

And being relatively new to metal detecting, he has zero knowledge of anything relating to analog detectors.

 

[HaroldILL.]

Or only by the size of His stomach. Ha!
Seriously though You have to learn the tonal qualities of a analog. There is a lot more to a CZ than putting it in zero disc. and off You go. They also have no understanding of a proper tuned one. I thought it seemed weird He kept saying it was Tom tuned but No sticker or paper work? And the owner forgot what the inch number was on a dime? I mean it's one number how could You forget that? Seems like it was doomed to fail regardless. Then His fanboys want to bash Me because I won't sent Him My 12.1" CZ-3D?
Like the late Ronnie Van Zant said
' I may be crazy, But I ain't No fool.

 

[marcomo]

You are spot on, Harold.

My friend's daughter pulled off Tom Dankowski's validation sticker = My dog ate my homework.

It could be true, it no doubt could happen, but any Tom tuned cz-3d I've ever seen had his sticker very well affixed. Logic tells me that the detector in question was probably never validated by Dankowski. And if it was, a removed sticker would be WAY more likely to be intentionally removed then accidentally. And the only reason to intentionally remove it would be to cover up a less than design intent detector.

If I'm wrong, clarification would be simple and easy. Tom has a database of all units he has certified, all the Basher would have to do is give him the serial # off the detector (unless the little urchin pulled that off too) and I'm sure he would be more than happy to provide the numbers.

Don't hold your breath waiting for that clarification.

 

[H2OAU]

I saw the video as well, and all the tests he ran are worth absolutely zero. As soon as any of those objects get into the ground for a couple of years all of his numbers go out the window. All anybody has to do is watch a YouTube video of somebody with the equinox to see that just about any Target is going to have a number swing of four or five digits. And then if anything happens to be in the ground near it, add or subtract even more numbers. as far as CZ's not hitting silver deeper than 9 in, that's straight-up hogwash. A couple weeks ago I pulled a 10 to 11 inch 1917 Mercury dime from a school yard with my cz-21 which is locked in salt mode. And that signal sounded like it was only 3 in deep. If he wants this metal detectorist to believe anything he has to say he needs to take that equinox and his cz3d out into the field and find real targets in the ground. And he needs to have somebody that knows how to run a CZ use it to verify the targets he finds with his equinox.

 

[H2OAU]

No wonder he disables the comments for his YouTube videos.