Detech Labs EXCELERATOR "S" coil on Sov Elite?

[robby4570]

I received this coil with the Sovereign Elite I purchased used. The seller wasn't sure if it was for the Sov or one of his other detectors. It has never been used and the plug/connector DOES fit my Sov Elite so I would assume it is the correct coil for my Sov. I just wanted to be sure before I turn on the Sov with this coil in case there's some reason I should not use it on the Sov.

Thanks All!

 

[Critterhunter]

Did you see the three in the coil sticky? All three I think are the same but have different stickers and are the currently made 5" coil, and one I think has the same sticker as yours. But of course it could be for an FBS machine.

If you Email Kellyco or Detech and give them the serial # you have hidden under the penny you might be able to find out that way whether it's for a BBS Sov/Excal machine or the FBS Etrac/Explorer.

Another way to tell maybe is if the coil cable is curly or is straight. Far as I know (?) all FBS coils are curly on a part of them in order to make it easier to snake them up inside the shaft on those machines, while all coils far as I know for the BBS machines have straight cables.

Short of the serial # thing though, the only real way to tell is to take measurements of all the pin outs at the end of the coil connector using an ohm meter. Take readings from all the combinations of pairs of pins you can think off. Post that on here and I'll do the same with one of my coils and we'll see if they match.

All Sovereign coils, regardless of make or size, are going to have the same resistance readings across say the TX coil and RX coil due to the windings and gauge having to be calibrated in such a way to put the coil into the same specs the machine needs to see. I forget off hand how the pre-amp circuit is wired but I think it'll be the only variable in the equation depending on what was used to build it and how it's wired, but I'm pretty sure that didn't matter when I took some readings of various coils a while back. I'll see if I can dig up those readings I posted and post them here for you. If just one reading matches (Tx coil pins or RX pins) and the other doesn't due to the pre-amp circuit then it's for sure for a BBS machine, as the other might change due to components in the pre-amp circuit. Other metal detectors will have the same deal going on, in that the resistance readings for them will be unique and different from what the BBS machines want to see. Every coil for every brand of machine has to be tuned to it via proper windings and gauge of wire to bring it into the specs the machine needs to run properly.

By the way, can you do me a favor and measure the actual size of that coil across it's width? I'm pretty sure somebody a while back said the coil was actually 4" and something but want to nail that down for the coil sticky.

 

[Critterhunter]

Here, in this thread I read the resistance of both the 10" Tornado and the 12x10 and find the same resistance numbers for both and list them. If at least the TX (2 pins) or the RX (2 pins) match on yours then you've got a BBS coil, as I said from memory I can't remember if the pre-amp circuit components might make the readings of one or the other a variable, but if you read that thread I think it doesn't change anything from both. Can't remember off hand and don't feel like reading the thread right now. Just make sure to read the thread all the way to the end as I think I corrected a pin out # or something I mis-typed earlier on.

http://www.findmall.com/read.php?21,1295019,1295599#msg-1295599

Let us know what you find out, and let me know what the actual size across that body of that coil is.

 

[Ron from Michigan]

n/t

 

[Critterhunter]

Ron, that would make it more simple, wouldn't it? I didn't know the FBS machines had a different # of pins than the BBS ones? If so then yea, there you go... But, what if that coil is for another machine other than the FBS ones and has the same # of pins as the BBS units? Reading the pin resistances is the one way to take any guess work out of it as it's unique like a fingerprint to each detector brand, but he did say it was either for a FBS or BBS machine when he bought it so then the proper pin # thing should mean it's BBS I guess.

I thought I remember a few weeks back that somebody on here plugged an BBS coil into an FBS machine just to see what would happen? If the pins are 5 on one and 6 on the other how would that be possible to even plug in, as I thought 5 and 6 pin plugs of these types are offset in their spacing differently than each other?

Robby, besides measuring the actual size of that coil how about a depth report on it and how high you can run sensitivity when you get around to using it?

 

[Ron from Michigan]

I would make sure if it is a 6 pin, that it is for the Sovereign.Thanks Ron

 

[robby4570]

It is just shy of 5 inches on the top half and the bottom half is RIGHT at 4 and 3/4 inches across.

and it is a SIX pin connector...

 

[Critterhunter]

Thanks for that info. That makes it smaller than the S-5 which is 5.5" in size, although I don't know if it's windings are smaller than that. Same deal with your coil. The actual windings might be smaller and the outside padded as has recently been talked about with some coils by Ralph at Sun Ray in the coil sticky. Some who want max separation might want to opt for the smallest coil possible, but even if the S-5 is a true 5.5" internaly it's still one tiny little coil. Much smaller than the Whites concentric trash coils I used on the low frequency Whites. Those are bigger than the name implies on them. This is going in the coil sticky just FYI...

 

[robby4570]

I went ahead and bit the bullet here and hooked it up and tried it out... And on a positive note, I didn't let any of the smoke out of the Sov!! I did find that I have to set the sens way below "Beach" to get it to stop chattering at me, at least here in the RV park we live in. I only played with it for a little bit but tomorrow if it's not pouring down rain again I plan on going to the beach early in the AM and trying it out around the beach chairs. I'll post a better review after that....

 

[Critterhunter]

Don't worry, it'll probably calm down away from the EMI. Give us a quick review of it's stability/how high you can run sensitivity at the beach and such, and any kind of depth reports you can muster on say a clad dime or something with it. Thanks

I should note, I corrected a few mistakes in my response when I re-posted part of that info in the coil sticky. Ralph did say the S-5 is filled with epoxy, which means it should be waterproof I would guess and not just rated water resistant, and also means the coil windings should go to the edge of the coil and not be smaller due to padding to protect the windings in pancake coils that aren't epoxy filled, so I would guess then it's a true 5.5" coil.

As for your coil, does it feel light it's filled with epoxy? Try pushing your finger on it. Will it squeeze? If so then it's probably hollow, which means only water resistant and could be risky to use in the water, and you should take a few precautions such as sealing the coil cable nut and rubber nut sleeve with rubber cemet or something.

I find it funny Detech says "for beach hunting" as one of the specialties for that little coil. Most people on the beach or in the water prefer a large coil, and little trash coils are mostly used in super heavy trash at old parks and such.

I'm curious how sensitive that little coil is to tiny fine gold chains and such compared to a larger coil. That reminds me, I should do the same test with my S-5 against my 10" Tornado and 12x10 to see if any is better at fine gold than the other. The Sovereigns will hit the thinnest of gold rings at incredible depths, but like other Minelabs have they trouble with "non-looped" fine gold such as fine gold chains or small gold earings. I kind of prefer that though, as it makes them less noisy bumping on tiny flakes of foil and such in parks. Hated that on some machines I owned. Digging good solid hits in the hopes of a gold ring only to find a tiny blob of foil.

 

[robby4570]

Well, did a beach chair hunt using the Excelerator coil and got $1.38 that my 10" Tornado was not able to see due to the proximity of the chairs. Most finds were pocket spills of 2 or 3 coins each at two sets of chairs that I had hit the night before with the 10" on. I am amazed at how different it is to swing that itty-bitty coil! It takes a real concious effort to go slow with it. It seems not to have the depth that I expected though. I dug a hole to 10 inches depth and placed a dime in it and could only get a hit at about 4 inches, now granted some have told me that this was akin to Air Testing and not to be relied on and I realize it. I repeated with a nickel and a quarter and got a little more with the nickel than the quarter (???), about 6 inches on the nickel and somewhere between the dime and the nickel on the quarter. This was a quick little test and I will do some more extensive testing somewhere soon and report back. My seetings were NO DISC, NO NOTCH, Variable and Disc with volume all the way clockwise and sensitivity at just a hair more clockwise than beach. The machine was stable and hit hard on any targets within 4 inches under the coil.

 

[bootyhoundpa]

i have that same coil and like you mentioned the depth on it isnt that great...... i had decent success with it at an old farm field homesite that i had worked to death many times with the 10 inch coil......the area i worked is rather nail and iron infested amongst other small metalic debris.....was able to pull out a few coins and flat buttons that the 10 inch could not see..... as you mentioned it is an ok coil for working closer to large metalic objects or where target seperation is a must.....

 

[robby4570]

Hey thanks for the reply there bootyhoundpa! It's good to know someone else has and uses this coil. I am just beginning to get used to my Sov and starting to try to wring every ounce of goodness I can out of it. I have really come to realize that it is one deep seekin' machine with the 10" Tornado coil and I only use the "BEACH" setting on the sensitivity knob right now.

 

[Critterhunter]

Thanks for the field reports from both of you on that coil. On land, is where I'm anxious to hear what it does depth wise on coins. The S-5 is said by some FBS guys to get a bit more depth than it, but that's to be expected as the S/X-5 is a bit bigger coil. I saw one report somewhere from a BBS guy who said the S-5 was a bit deeper and more stabile, but I bet that coil of yours will sniper stuff out of trash even more than the deadly S-5 just due to it's shear smaller size (less than 5") compared to the 5.5" S-5. Keep the reports coming in!

 

[sierraimage]

Ok, I read all of the threads. Here is my info for this coil that I am trying to determine if it can be used on my Sov GT. This is the 5" excelerator eq2 pro coil made by detech. (by the way I emailed them and they did not return me email).

I'll Keep it short with out too much heady tech talk, It is a fast read forum after all. On a 200 ohm setting on my cheap meter...the readings between pins 1 & 2 are 3.3 ohms once it settles. So is this for a sov gt machine using BBS based on your info? Thanks

By the way on this...i just tested my 10" tornado 1000 on pin 1&2 and it's very erratic and it calms down to a 2.8 ohm reading? Wouldn't that mean the 5" excelerator is not meant for a Minelab?? I have no idea.

 

[Critterhunter]

The reason the resistance is changing a bit at first is you are probably energizing the pre-amp circuit a bit and it has to reach a balance with the low voltage from the ohm meter charging capacitors a bit or such. Did you use your lowest scale ohm setting on your meter to get as accurate of a reading as possible? Either way, 2.8 and 3.3 ohms is very close to each other so that I would almost bet that's the right coil then. The differences are probably just due to slight differences in design of the pre-amp or something, but I'd rather you took a few more pin readings. Did you read that thread link near the top of this thread to see what my readings were for those two pins? Here, let me check real fast and see...

 

[Critterhunter]

OK, I just checked my thread. Pins 1 and 2 are the output power leads to the TX winding. Your 2.8 and 3.3 ohm readings are very close to each other, and for me in that thread both my 10" Tornado and 12x10 read 1.9 ohms. I suspect your meter is reading a little high only due to variances of the meter, because reading ohms this low is rather hard for a cheap meter to do real accurately.

These leads also supply power to the pre-amp, so that probably explains your fluctuating numbers at first as the pre-amp is slightly energized, and could also explain the slight variances you got in readings from both coils because the components on both pre-amps are going to vary a little no matter how good of parts they are in tolerance specifications.

I'm about headed for bed and too tired to think real straight at the moment, but I'd say you are golden. Those readings are so close I bet it's the right coil, but just to be cautious read pins 4 and 3. 4 is the RX coil output and ground is pin 3. I got 1.218K ohms for my 12x10 and 1.119K ohns for the 10" Tornado. You may have to adjust your scale on your meter for this as I don't know what scaling your are set on.

Really the RX coil reading isn't of the RX coil, but rather a general reading of the resistance of the entire circuit on that end because of the pre-amp and other components involved in that the RX coil alone can't be isolated unless you cut into the coil.

I'd say if you get a resistance reading of around those two numbers for the RX coil you should be good to go, but as always don't take my word for it and I'm not responsible if you let the magic smoke out of your machine. I'm too tired to look up other variances in numbers from a site that others have posted this info on when building Sovereign coils and I'm too tired to read the pins on my S-5 to see how much it may vary from my other two coils I posted. If you wait until tomorrow I'll read my S-5 and see if it varies from my other two coils by the TX readings as much as yours does, but it's so slight in your readings that if your RX reads close to the two I just posted for those pins then I'd say your golden. I just always like to be extra cautious when I don't know for sure without some further checking but your TX windings are super close to both your coils to each other, and as said they are reading a bit higher than mine due to the accuracy of your cheap meter.

If I knew off hand how far say the TX windings read different on an FBS coil then if that's way off then we can rule that out as being that coil. With the RX reading if that's close to mine then I'd say you've got a BBS coil there.

Got to get off this thing and go to bed. I'll check back and post that info tomorrow...

 

[robby4570]

Thanks for the field reports from both of you on that coil. On land, is where I'm anxious to hear what it does depth wise on coins. The S-5 is said by some FBS guys to get a bit more depth than it, but that's to be expected as the S/X-5 is a bit bigger coil. I saw one report somewhere from a BBS guy who said the S-5 was a bit deeper and more stabile, but I bet that coil of yours will sniper stuff out of trash even more than the deadly S-5 just due to it's shear smaller size (less than 5") compared to the 5.5" S-5. Keep the reports coming in!

You're welcome! I will do a better test on the beach with a test garden one of these days, and after it cools off here in Nov/Dec, I'll do a test garden in the field out back of the RV Park we live in and post the resuts as well.

Based on my measurements and guessing at the thickness of the plastic, I would say that the actual windings of the coil do not exceed 4-3/4 inches. Now, I don't know from Adam about the S-5 or the S/X-5, this coil is called the "Excelerator S" and I can't find it anywhere on any website so I assume it is obsolete now. It was brand new un-used when I got it...

 

[Critterhunter]

The Sunray S-5 is 5.5" and the FBS (Etrac/Explorer) version is called the X-5. I bet your S coil is the same exact 5" Excelerator as the other 3 posted in the coil sticky and the sticker was just changed for various markets or such, because at least the outer shell on all 4 coils looks identical except for (was it yours?) the one that looks like it might have a bit thicker ears on the coil.

Don't know if Detech made internal upgrades of those small Exclerators because at least the big Excelerators 12 to 18" size ranges or so were said to be kind of bad coils in the early years but then later they were said to be much better due to internal changes to them. I wonder if that is the case with the 5" Excelerators or not? The early versions of the big Excelerators might have been called Penetrators unless that was just the over seas name for them, then I think they were called Excelerator IIs or something and then I think the latest name/label change was to EQ2 Excelerators or something like that but am not sure. But I think there were only two versions of those coils. The first that many said were too unstable, and then the later ones that were said to be much better and are still made to this day.

If the little 5" ones made some changes internaly too I don't know, because the label might just be different for no rhyme or reason on them for UK markets and such. I *think* Kellyco also sold a 6" Excelerator for the Sovereign for a while before the 5" one came out but that's from vague memory. The Sovereign version of the 5" coil is still made by Detech but I haven't seen it on Kellyco's site for a year or so, but that doesn't mean they don't carry it. Might just be listed badly or not on the web page as the Sovereign version of the 12x10 was also hard to find on there for a while unless you looked in just the right obscure spot.

That's why I tell people if they ever are looking for a Sovereign coil and don't see it on their site, make sure you talk to either JW or the guy I listed the name for in the coil sticky, as they both seem to be up on exactly what stock they have or are getting in while some of those sales people don't seem to know what they have unless they can easily find it on their webpage. So don't take a "we don't carry the Sovereign version" by somebody as a for sure thing until you ask at least one or two others at Kellyco who might know otherwise.

 

[Critterhunter]

Hey SeirraImage, I had a late night last night and am still pretty groggy, but I'll get around to taking the readings of my S-5 sometime today here and post the readings of both the RX and TX pinouts for you. Sounds like you're TX readings are so close to each other with one coil being a known BBS coil but let's just play it safe here and verify a few more variances in numbers first. Also read your RX pinouts as I said. Never hurts to be cautious and re-confirm numbers when it only takes a little patience. Stick your hand on a live wire without checking it twice for voltage and you ask what you get for. I've checked two 120V lines on a compressor TWICE and got zero volts. Thought...Always check three times and sure enough 240V! Turns out the spot on the copper where I was taking the reading has oxide on it and was not giving me a good connection. Even if that didn't kill me it would have ruined my whole day.