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Detecting Idaho BLM land
- Thread starter Billium
- Start date
BarberBill
New member
You should be able to google their rules. Watch for and read the signs around camp grounds. Up here in N. Idaho and on into Washington along the Snake, the Corps has signs on the campgrounds with the posted rules including where one can and can't detect. If you're out well away from any attraction or develpment I think you'd be okay. Seldom does one see any employee that monitors this and I'd guess that in most cases the worst case would be you'd be told to quit unless you're digging in a true archaelogical site or study area, then it might get interesting.
BB
BB
I would normally check the web site but it seems it is not functioning properly. I guess it's due to no funding currently, also guessing no real field personnel. I/we would be out away from the normal attractions but my luck the one thing this administration would want to keep funded in this government shut down would be patrolling the stuff they will never find. I will likely have to go in person to check into it. I just hate to "wake up the dog" so to speak.
I had a link that said that BLM land was ok for detecting. Ie.: specific ALLOWANCE (and not just simply silent-on-the-matter, which I would also consider a green-light, if something is not specifically forbidden). However, the link I have is for-some-reason not working now. Leads to just a home page, and from there, am not finding the verbage that used to pop up. It had said something like "in developed campgrounds or developed areas, as long as you're not in archaeological sensitive areas", or something to that effect.
I agree with Barber bill: If you're back in the boondocks (where you've perhaps found foundations, or old campsites, etc...), and it's in the middle of nowhere, do you really think anyone cares? I mean, sure, stay away from obvious historic landmarks and sensitive monuments. But as for other spots in the forests/hills, heck, you're just looking for the boyscout ring you lost when you were a kid there, right?
I agree with Barber bill: If you're back in the boondocks (where you've perhaps found foundations, or old campsites, etc...), and it's in the middle of nowhere, do you really think anyone cares? I mean, sure, stay away from obvious historic landmarks and sensitive monuments. But as for other spots in the forests/hills, heck, you're just looking for the boyscout ring you lost when you were a kid there, right?
Wear blaze orange this time of year, not sure of Idaho seasons, but when I lived in SD, BLM land gets hunted quite a bit...western land is usually safer than the thick eastern forests, since most hunters use spotting scopes and binoculars to properly identify a shot, and its so wide open theres usually no mistaking a person for an animal, but still...On your question, I dont know, but I do know theres thousands of square miles of BLM that in no way can be covered by one CO, who most likely wouldnt give a durn about you or your detector, if they are out at all, they are checking hunters.
Mud
Mud
All good points.
It is hunting season here and the hunters are not as aware and/or cautious as they used to be so Blaze Orange is a great idea.
I did find out from some friends that there are certain "historic districts" that cannot be hunted. They fall under the antiquities act and apparently these areas don't need to be posted, we are supposed to make ourselves aware of these areas. I won't go off on this here. I'll save it for another thread.
Some one, a while back, went out and detected a section of the Oregon trail. It was all over the news. I don't think anyone would have known if they would have filled their holes. Idiots....
It's people like that that get us locked out of "our land".
Me and my family used to do a lot of deer hunting and to my recolection we lost a lot of pocket watches, rings, knives etc in those areas.......Good idea!
It is hunting season here and the hunters are not as aware and/or cautious as they used to be so Blaze Orange is a great idea.
I did find out from some friends that there are certain "historic districts" that cannot be hunted. They fall under the antiquities act and apparently these areas don't need to be posted, we are supposed to make ourselves aware of these areas. I won't go off on this here. I'll save it for another thread.
Some one, a while back, went out and detected a section of the Oregon trail. It was all over the news. I don't think anyone would have known if they would have filled their holes. Idiots....
It's people like that that get us locked out of "our land".
Me and my family used to do a lot of deer hunting and to my recolection we lost a lot of pocket watches, rings, knives etc in those areas.......Good idea!
billium, it's easy for us to read of some bust somewhere, and wonder "gee, I wonder if I can detect?". Ie.: the more scary stories one reads, naturally the more he wonders "what are the laws" and "can I detect", and so forth. A subconscious understandable reaction. And yes, no doubt, there will always be some crazy stories popping up of someone roughed up for md'ing, somewhere, somehow, if you look hard enough. But in the over-all scheme of things, any actual REAL hassles (arrests, tickets, confiscations, etc...) are rare. And in most all of the cases, you will either see someone who was a) night-sneaking obvious historic monuments type things, or b) couldn't take a warning, or c) just someone who was a clown who stuck out like a sore-thumb, begging for attention.
So while the "scary stories" seem ominous, I think of them like this: No doubt you can also find a story of a motorist pulled over, and roughed up by an over-zealous cop, for nothing but a tail-light out. Yup, arrested, car confiscated, ticket, etc... But seriously, does that mean the rest of us should therefore fear driving? No. We all look at such things as exceptions, or extremes. Might they happen? SURE, anything can happen. But there comes a point when you have to make a decision to even leave your front door in the morning. Not saying to be reck-less and throw caution to the wind, but just saying .....
So while the "scary stories" seem ominous, I think of them like this: No doubt you can also find a story of a motorist pulled over, and roughed up by an over-zealous cop, for nothing but a tail-light out. Yup, arrested, car confiscated, ticket, etc... But seriously, does that mean the rest of us should therefore fear driving? No. We all look at such things as exceptions, or extremes. Might they happen? SURE, anything can happen. But there comes a point when you have to make a decision to even leave your front door in the morning. Not saying to be reck-less and throw caution to the wind, but just saying .....
Tom,
I completely agree. I just try to be aware of possible issues and try to avoid drawing attention my way. I sure wouldn't want to draw negative attention to our sport. It just damages the public opinion no mater if anything wrong was done or not. Most people think what we do is cool and a small few, who usually get the most attention, think we are destroying/poaching something therefore I try not to attract too much attention.
I completely agree. I just try to be aware of possible issues and try to avoid drawing attention my way. I sure wouldn't want to draw negative attention to our sport. It just damages the public opinion no mater if anything wrong was done or not. Most people think what we do is cool and a small few, who usually get the most attention, think we are destroying/poaching something therefore I try not to attract too much attention.
Billium said:
Billium, yes, I too try not to attract attention. Detecting has connotations afterall: You might be about to make a mess, you might find something valuable, blah blah blah.... So it's gotten to where I do most of my detecting at odd-ball times. Even at night. NOT because there's necessarily anything wrong or illegal about spots I'm at, but ONLY to keep busy-body-lookie-lous from wanting to chime in with their stuff. The only exception would be the beach. I'll go in broad daylight, even at heavy usage times. But for things like parks, school yards, demolition sites, etc...., I always pick low traffic times. Out of sight is out of mind. So peaceful, so serene
I beleive Blm Land is ok to hunt for mineral withdrawel but historic sites are off limits. You can hunt them "for nuggets" but are not supposed to take anything of historic value like a primer can lid or arrowheads and native american items. Common sense respect and watching for claims will usually keep you out of trouble. I have gone down the wrong road before start seeing something shiney and then notice the camo nets and the row of fifty plus harlys hiding out in the woods. Not a little comunity I want to happen into I turned around real quick like exite stage left allready!!!!!!!!!
HH
Jim
HH
Jim
Reminds me of an encounter I had with a National Forest ranger. He came by while I was detecting some CCC era camps. He tried to say "you can't detect". But then he relaxed a little and said I could detect, but that if I found anything older than 50 yrs. old, I was to drop it off at the ranger station. Then he drove off. Hmmm, I guess it's up to my math skills after that? I mean, let's be real: How many people here have EVER had someone follow them around, to see if you found a nugget vs a coin? Or if you did (gasp) find a coin, how many people have ever had someone standing over them with a calculator doing the math on the ages? I mean .... seriously now.
Its the most selfish law I have ever seen but in the USA you are supposed to have a national treasure hunters license at a cost of I think $400 or else your supposed to put that wheatie back. 
That's why the ranger cannot leagly tell you not to hunt you just can't take anything old other than mineralsinnochio because that 1963 penny is a national treasure.
HH
That's why the ranger cannot leagly tell you not to hunt you just can't take anything old other than minerals
innochio because that 1963 penny is a national treasure.HH
salmonriverhotrock
New member
Where you need to research this is in the Antiquities Acts, Federal and State. As far as I understand, there are no Federal metal detecting Laws in the Federal Codes but the Federals and States can and do go after Detectorist violating the Antiquities Acts and you can violate them even without a metal detector.
The section of Oregon Trail that was dug in Idaho was I believe down by Burley and the unfilled holes as I understood the report were shovel size or bigger. The Oregon Trail and I believe the recognized alternate routes in Idaho are protected unless on private property. I know for a fact the Goodalls Cutoff back home in SE Idaho was marked a number of years ago on BLM grounds. You really need to read these antiquities laws to get the feel for it all. Just my opinion but I think if any metal detector Dealer ever told a potential buyer about these laws, they would make very few sales. Yes, you can take your chances as life is a chance but I do know a Vietnam Vet here on the Little Salmon River who had his day in the Federal Court in Moscow Idaho because of a BLM Ranger. Fortunately, the head BLM Archaeologist for the region had the case thrown out because the bullet he found on a sandy Salmon River beach was not from the Nez Perce Indian Wars. Back home about 5-6 years ago, a woman was convicted not for digging in a marked or known archaeological site but found one and began removing artifacts and taking them home to store. Back in the early 1980's back home, we had a Californian come in and established his family in our community. He was eventually caught not only removing Indian artifacts on Federal land, he was taking them back to California and selling them.
Also, there is such a thing as Electronic Prospecting. Beware of lands withdrawn from prospecting, beware of what constitutes Prospecting, beware of Mineral Leases and Mining Claims.
I have metal detected here in Idaho for many years and I have not had any problems yet. This area of Idaho I came to from SE Idaho however, has an abundance of Federals and State Lands folks not to forget the Nez Perce Indian history plus at least two Battle Grounds and I honestly have not detected near as much here as I used to back home simply because of my awareness of the Antiquities Laws and what seems a never ending presence of Federals. Also, do not discount people in civilian clothes. Archaeologist do have some authority and do get nosey and the University of Idaho is to my north and Boise State is to my south and these people do use the only highway that runs through here and connects North and South Idaho. Idaho is getting harder and harder to find a place to be without someone else being there to see you. I remember the days in Idaho, when I used to snowmachine all day by myself and never see another soul.
Phillip_in_NM
Member
I really hate to be the 'wet blanket' voice of reason but the days of "This land is your land, this land is my land" are over. Archaeologists, museum scientists and bureaucrats are steaming over what they perceive as nothing less than the raping and pillaging of the American historical legacy. Having trained in Museum Science, and still keeping in relatively close contact with many in that and related fields, I can assure you that there are many in the historical science community who are bristling for a fight and just waiting for that perfect scapegoat who will serve as a warning to those in this hobby. I can tell you that before shows like "Diggers" came on the scene, detectorists were mainly perceived as an annoyance. Now we are the subject of lectures, symposia and inter-facility correspondence. We are seen as looters of the national legacy.
Someone mentioned that one rarely hears of a hobbyist actually punished for pursuing our hobby, but trust me, we will all hear more and more of it. And just imagine if you personally become one of the archaeological community's scapegoats. For digging up a wheatie on public land, you could lose your job, your money, perhaps even your freedom. Is it worth it?
Someone mentioned that one rarely hears of a hobbyist actually punished for pursuing our hobby, but trust me, we will all hear more and more of it. And just imagine if you personally become one of the archaeological community's scapegoats. For digging up a wheatie on public land, you could lose your job, your money, perhaps even your freedom. Is it worth it?
This may be a little late. The blm goes by ARPA. It is legal to use a metal detector on blm land. You cannot detect archaeological sites. Under ARPA an item is only considered protected if it is over 100 years old. So you can keep your 1915 penny but your 1913 has to be left. And as always, if someone tells you to leave, leave.
Garry
Sw idaho
Garry
Sw idaho
Hey guys, I've been at this hobby now for 35+ years. And I'm as brazen as they come. And I have YET to ever have anyone follow me around with a pocket-calcuator, doing the math on the ages of each item I dig up.
And to the extent that someone here *MIGHT* have some isolated odd-ball case of someone who got roughed up for an ARPA violation (specifically the 1912 vs the 1915 wheatie example), oh PUUULLLEEEEAASSSEE. Tell me you don't see that as an extreme exception. I mean, doh, so too can I perhaps find a story or link of someone who got roughed up by an over-zealous cop (jailed, fined, ticketed, etc...) FOR NOTHING BUT A TAIL-LIGHT OUT. For pete's sake, do you really think navy commando seal archies are waiting behind every tree to jump out with their calculators? Ok, sure then, put that 1912 penny back in the hole (or your "other" pocket). Sheesk, sometimes I think md'rs have become such nancy-boy pansies.
Sure, I'm not saying to throw caution to the wind and tromp on sensitive historic monuments. Sure, use common sense. But in the middle of a frickin forest somewhere in the middle of nowhere?
And to the extent that someone here *MIGHT* have some isolated odd-ball case of someone who got roughed up for an ARPA violation (specifically the 1912 vs the 1915 wheatie example), oh PUUULLLEEEEAASSSEE. Tell me you don't see that as an extreme exception. I mean, doh, so too can I perhaps find a story or link of someone who got roughed up by an over-zealous cop (jailed, fined, ticketed, etc...) FOR NOTHING BUT A TAIL-LIGHT OUT. For pete's sake, do you really think navy commando seal archies are waiting behind every tree to jump out with their calculators? Ok, sure then, put that 1912 penny back in the hole (or your "other" pocket). Sheesk, sometimes I think md'rs have become such nancy-boy pansies.
Sure, I'm not saying to throw caution to the wind and tromp on sensitive historic monuments. Sure, use common sense. But in the middle of a frickin forest somewhere in the middle of nowhere?
Tom_in_CA said:Hey guys, I've been at this hobby now for 35+ years. And I'm as brazen as they come. And I have YET to ever have anyone follow me around with a pocket-calcuator, doing the math on the ages of each item I dig up.
And to the extent that someone here *MIGHT* have some isolated odd-ball case of someone who got roughed up for an ARPA violation (specifically the 1912 vs the 1915 wheatie example), oh PUUULLLEEEEAASSSEE. Tell me you don't see that as an extreme exception. I mean, doh, so too can I perhaps find a story or link of someone who got roughed up by an over-zealous cop (jailed, fined, ticketed, etc...) FOR NOTHING BUT A TAIL-LIGHT OUT. For pete's sake, do you really think navy commando seal archies are waiting behind every tree to jump out with their calculators? Ok, sure then, put that 1912 penny back in the hole (or your "other" pocket). Sheesk, sometimes I think md'rs have become such nancy-boy pansies.
Sure, I'm not saying to throw caution to the wind and tromp on sensitive historic monuments. Sure, use common sense. But in the middle of a frickin forest somewhere in the middle of nowhere?
Agreed Tom_in_CA. If a person rolls up on a registered historic place and starts swingin and throwin dirt there WILL be trouble.Like the jack ass's in southern Idaho last year that dug up the Oregon Trail AND left the holes open. They sure didn't help our cause and if I knew who the were I would make a strong effort to have a personal word with them.
Also if a person digs deep enough in the permission process they will most likely be told no because they have now become irritating or found some one's obscure opinion on a rule taken out of context by someone having no clue what the original intent of the ruling meant.
I will go where ever I want unless there is specific rules/laws published.
I sure didn't think this would get this far.....
This whole "trespassing" notion is a funny concept...and I suppose most laws in general are...
Govt's do it all the time, with little regard to private property, historic or religious sites...Trespassing seems to only be enforceable based upon the strength and presence of the "current" property owner...in this instance the trespassing laws seem to be a "point in time" issue, and not necessarily a legal or moral one?...If somebody trespasses on MY property, and I dont see them or know about it, does it bother me? NO! How could it if I dont see them at the time, or notice any sign they were there!
So in this way its a strange and funny concept...
If a guy trespasses and doesnt get "caught" was he really trespassing? Does not getting caught the deciding factor?
Or are we to self enforce? If a person breaks the speed limit and doesnt get caught was he really speeding? Yes and No, Yes he was speeding in his minds eye according to the posted limit in that particular stretch of road at the time,, but No he didnt get caught by the ones who enforce that law, so in their eyes No, he wasn't speeding...See?...
I've heard said that Organized Religion keeps a community stable so the populace self enforce personal behavior on matters such as these, and, it helps keeps the poor from killing the rich! I dont know about that, but still, its sort of fun to try to think all these things through...no, I'm not a lawyer, or ever went to college, just thinking about these strange and funny things we have to deal with as we attempt to walk this Earth unhindered..
I'm sure every indigenous tribe found this trespassing concept equally perplexing. Land they walked and hunted for 1000's of years is now "off limits" just because somebody says they "own" it?
Mud
Govt's do it all the time, with little regard to private property, historic or religious sites...Trespassing seems to only be enforceable based upon the strength and presence of the "current" property owner...in this instance the trespassing laws seem to be a "point in time" issue, and not necessarily a legal or moral one?...If somebody trespasses on MY property, and I dont see them or know about it, does it bother me? NO! How could it if I dont see them at the time, or notice any sign they were there!
So in this way its a strange and funny concept...If a guy trespasses and doesnt get "caught" was he really trespassing? Does not getting caught the deciding factor?
Or are we to self enforce? If a person breaks the speed limit and doesnt get caught was he really speeding? Yes and No, Yes he was speeding in his minds eye according to the posted limit in that particular stretch of road at the time,, but No he didnt get caught by the ones who enforce that law, so in their eyes No, he wasn't speeding...See?...I've heard said that Organized Religion keeps a community stable so the populace self enforce personal behavior on matters such as these, and, it helps keeps the poor from killing the rich! I dont know about that, but still, its sort of fun to try to think all these things through...no, I'm not a lawyer, or ever went to college, just thinking about these strange and funny things we have to deal with as we attempt to walk this Earth unhindered..
I'm sure every indigenous tribe found this trespassing concept equally perplexing. Land they walked and hunted for 1000's of years is now "off limits" just because somebody says they "own" it?
Mud