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DFX Owner
- Thread starter Architex
- Start date
Jason in TN
New member
You are correct the Explorer does not have near as many adjustments as the DFX. I own both If depth is waht you are after the Explorer will get deeper no doubt in my mind. I have used both alot with every coil combination there is. For true Id at 10" or less the DFX will out do the explorer any day of the week. The Explorer will give the right tone alot of tomes but the smart find screen will be way off. I dig more by tone on my Explorer and ignore the smart find on deeper stuff. The DFX has many more adjustment than the Explorer. Both are great machines. Where the ground has been plower or disturbed the DFX in single freqency mode is the best choice. At the beach digging any signal the Explorer will get much more depht. They both have there place and uses. I would buy both if I was you.
have as many adjustments, I've never even seen a DFX. What I do know for certain is that far too many users bought their Explorer and didn't give much consideration to learning the machine. They'd try the factory settings, decide that wasn't working for one reason or another, then try every suggested setting from who ever cared to share theirs.
Never having worked with any one (or two or three) settings for a suitable number of hours in order to learn what the machine was saying, they grew frustrated and sold their machine. In fact some folks bought and sold the Explorer as many as (3) times before they allowed themselves to learn. Thus was born the myth of "huge learning curve" with the Explorer.
Part of the problem is (IMHO) a design issue with the user interface. One example is the "Gain" setting. To most folks "Gain" means sensitivity. The Minelab engineers had a different "Gain" in mind, in this case it's how much the audio response is "amped-up" in response to a target. With a gain of (1), the audio presents a pretty much linear loudness response. A small or deep target will sound very faint, while a large and or shallow target will the significantly louder. Well, the "Gain" setting allows you to warp the audio response so that at gain 10, a deep and small target will be just as loud (or very nearly so) as a surface target. To minimize massively loud sounds from blowing your headphones off, Minelab included the "Maximun Limit" function which is the primary volume control. No matter how big or how "loud" the target response is, it will never exceed your selected limit.
There are a few more issues like this with the Explorer user interface that have put off more than a few new users. When you think one parameter means one thing, only to find out it is in no way related to what "common sense" taught you to believe it meant, well, some folks can't work past stuff like this. Again, another reason for the "Explorer steep learning curve". Of course it's steep when you have to sidestep common sense in order to understand the lingo of the designers!
What the Explorer does offer is usable configurability. Once you learn the basics and have become proficient, you have the options available to tailor the machine's response to suit your needs, and this can mean different settings at different types of sites.
Having said all that, there are published settings that several users have shared that run the machine at the limit in virtually every type of hunting conditions. With those settings come a mass of akward sounds and chirps, all of which mean something to the TRAINED ear. The new user's head might ache to use these tweaked settings, but that's why the machine is configurable. Unfortunately, far too many people refused to learn the machine before they went off the path to never ending tweaking. Still other folks treat the Explorer as a tweak-toy that rumor has it can be used to find metallic object beneath the soil.
I'm not sure if any of this helped, you'll have to let me know.
DAS
Never having worked with any one (or two or three) settings for a suitable number of hours in order to learn what the machine was saying, they grew frustrated and sold their machine. In fact some folks bought and sold the Explorer as many as (3) times before they allowed themselves to learn. Thus was born the myth of "huge learning curve" with the Explorer.
Part of the problem is (IMHO) a design issue with the user interface. One example is the "Gain" setting. To most folks "Gain" means sensitivity. The Minelab engineers had a different "Gain" in mind, in this case it's how much the audio response is "amped-up" in response to a target. With a gain of (1), the audio presents a pretty much linear loudness response. A small or deep target will sound very faint, while a large and or shallow target will the significantly louder. Well, the "Gain" setting allows you to warp the audio response so that at gain 10, a deep and small target will be just as loud (or very nearly so) as a surface target. To minimize massively loud sounds from blowing your headphones off, Minelab included the "Maximun Limit" function which is the primary volume control. No matter how big or how "loud" the target response is, it will never exceed your selected limit.
There are a few more issues like this with the Explorer user interface that have put off more than a few new users. When you think one parameter means one thing, only to find out it is in no way related to what "common sense" taught you to believe it meant, well, some folks can't work past stuff like this. Again, another reason for the "Explorer steep learning curve". Of course it's steep when you have to sidestep common sense in order to understand the lingo of the designers!
What the Explorer does offer is usable configurability. Once you learn the basics and have become proficient, you have the options available to tailor the machine's response to suit your needs, and this can mean different settings at different types of sites.
Having said all that, there are published settings that several users have shared that run the machine at the limit in virtually every type of hunting conditions. With those settings come a mass of akward sounds and chirps, all of which mean something to the TRAINED ear. The new user's head might ache to use these tweaked settings, but that's why the machine is configurable. Unfortunately, far too many people refused to learn the machine before they went off the path to never ending tweaking. Still other folks treat the Explorer as a tweak-toy that rumor has it can be used to find metallic object beneath the soil.
I'm not sure if any of this helped, you'll have to let me know.
DAS
updated:
well i find it very interesting that in a Minelab forum...
the subject reads "DFX Owner" and someone with the handle "swingingmydfx" anwsers this post in a most positive light about White's.
Frankly I don't believe this person is a first time poster in Findmall - anymore than I believe "swingingmydfx" is.
"swingingmydfx"
- you are incorrect on your assessment of the Explorer adjustments for the simple fact that the Explorer is programmable to an almost infinite set of disc settings where you can accept or reject any given item within that program. But I guess that isn't an adjustment
according to your criteria.
well i find it very interesting that in a Minelab forum...
the subject reads "DFX Owner" and someone with the handle "swingingmydfx" anwsers this post in a most positive light about White's.
Frankly I don't believe this person is a first time poster in Findmall - anymore than I believe "swingingmydfx" is.
"swingingmydfx"
- you are incorrect on your assessment of the Explorer adjustments for the simple fact that the Explorer is programmable to an almost infinite set of disc settings where you can accept or reject any given item within that program. But I guess that isn't an adjustment
according to your criteria.
Jason in TN
New member
Ocean no need to be harsh you were a first time poster one time too. What Architex has stated is that the DFX has more adjustments than the Explorer. This is 100 percent a fact. Does that make it better than the Explorer for some things yes. For other reasons no. I have and use both. Again for there own reasons both are great detectors. And have there uses for depth the Explorer will get my vote. The DFX is also much more technical and has a much steeper learning curve than the Explorer.
the subject reads "DFX Owner" and someone with the handle "swingingmydfx" anwsers this post in a most positive light about White's.
Frankly I don't believe this person is a first time poster in Findmall
- anymore than I believe you are.
and you are incorrect on your assessment of the Explorer adjustments for the simple fact that the Explorer is programmable to an almost infinite set of disc settings where you can accept or reject any given item within that program. But I guess that isn't an adjustment
according to your criteria.
Frankly I don't believe this person is a first time poster in Findmall
- anymore than I believe you are.
and you are incorrect on your assessment of the Explorer adjustments for the simple fact that the Explorer is programmable to an almost infinite set of disc settings where you can accept or reject any given item within that program. But I guess that isn't an adjustment
according to your criteria.
without actually have to say so, is number of adjustment does not a detector make. I won't play the brand loyalty game, I'm happy with my Explorer, but science hasn't invented a scale small enough to measure the satisfaction I would get by having someone else decide my choice of the Explorer was a good one. Frankly, as cold as it may sound, the only opinion that matters to me, is MINE.
Having said that, I feel the adjustability is both the strongest and weakest points the Explorer has to offer. Some options, having tried them, will NEVER be used, they simply have no value to me. Wasted space in the firmware so far as I'm concerned. In fact I'd give up Audio 2 and 3, Constant Sounds, Conductive Tones, and Deep for an immediate update of the smartscreen cursor. I know the engineers were worried about the cursor bouncing "too much" but I'd prefer a live update rather than having to wait for a null. If there was one feature I'd SLAM Minelab over, that would be it.
I have a setup in my test gargen where a silver dime is buried under the lip of a partially crushed aluminum Coke can, with a piece of rusty angle iron an inch and a half away (assuming the soil hasn't moved too much). The dime depth is 8 inches, the iron is at 8 inches, and the can spans 6 to 8 inches, with the flattened part only 0.5 inches above the dime. (Again, assuming it all settled as intended).
Well, the Explorer shows me a HUGE high signal (the can) a solid but brief blip of that nice "flutey" silver coin sound, followed by the harsh high blip of the edge of the iron, followed by a grunt (ferrous tones) of the body of the angle iron. Well, it SOUNDS like a dig is warranted, but the cursor only resets to the bogusly large can or iron signal. If the cursor update was live, I'd see the dime, and I know this because I can HEAR the dime. So basically, it chaps my hide that someone decided the "cursor needed to settle down in order for users to accept it". In this case, I'm dissatisfied because the cursor has been programmed to reject info I could use to help make my decision to dig.
Anyway, I try hard not to reject folks who's "loyalties" lie elsewhere, since I expect a few of them at least are like me, and would feel downright foolish to have a stable full of different purpose detectors all from the same manufacturer.
DAS
Having said that, I feel the adjustability is both the strongest and weakest points the Explorer has to offer. Some options, having tried them, will NEVER be used, they simply have no value to me. Wasted space in the firmware so far as I'm concerned. In fact I'd give up Audio 2 and 3, Constant Sounds, Conductive Tones, and Deep for an immediate update of the smartscreen cursor. I know the engineers were worried about the cursor bouncing "too much" but I'd prefer a live update rather than having to wait for a null. If there was one feature I'd SLAM Minelab over, that would be it.
I have a setup in my test gargen where a silver dime is buried under the lip of a partially crushed aluminum Coke can, with a piece of rusty angle iron an inch and a half away (assuming the soil hasn't moved too much). The dime depth is 8 inches, the iron is at 8 inches, and the can spans 6 to 8 inches, with the flattened part only 0.5 inches above the dime. (Again, assuming it all settled as intended).
Well, the Explorer shows me a HUGE high signal (the can) a solid but brief blip of that nice "flutey" silver coin sound, followed by the harsh high blip of the edge of the iron, followed by a grunt (ferrous tones) of the body of the angle iron. Well, it SOUNDS like a dig is warranted, but the cursor only resets to the bogusly large can or iron signal. If the cursor update was live, I'd see the dime, and I know this because I can HEAR the dime. So basically, it chaps my hide that someone decided the "cursor needed to settle down in order for users to accept it". In this case, I'm dissatisfied because the cursor has been programmed to reject info I could use to help make my decision to dig.
Anyway, I try hard not to reject folks who's "loyalties" lie elsewhere, since I expect a few of them at least are like me, and would feel downright foolish to have a stable full of different purpose detectors all from the same manufacturer.
DAS
I requested information from Whites and at the same time I requested info from Minelab on their top detectors. Well the only one to repsond was Minelab who sent out a great information package and DVDs. That ment alot when it came to service response. So I purchased the EXII this year. It could have been the other way around. But it wasnt.
jimb
jimb
detecting I'm using the most powerful detector you can buy, and that my friend is a Minelab Explorer II.
As for who's opinion matters - I agree. My posts were not directed towards you. We've had a rash of DFX or White's users who seem to want to sell us on the DFX. And they make silly statements like buy both of them. yeah right! Who makes that kind of statement? Frequently dealers who sell all brands. Or someone who has a vested interest in the other company or brand because they got a free detector from that company in exchange for field testing and promotion of that brand. Why do think field tests in TH'ing magazines are never very critical if critical at all (rare)???? because the machine has no flaws??? NO! Think about it - you'll never read any field test trashing a MD for it's flaws. Why?
I do have brand loyalty and if you could go back and see all my finds with this machine - you might understand why. But if you want to listen to a DFX guy on Minelab forum - by all means go right ahead!
Just remember that most dealers are not unbiased about what they actually sell. I don't sell detectors - I just use them.
As for who's opinion matters - I agree. My posts were not directed towards you. We've had a rash of DFX or White's users who seem to want to sell us on the DFX. And they make silly statements like buy both of them. yeah right! Who makes that kind of statement? Frequently dealers who sell all brands. Or someone who has a vested interest in the other company or brand because they got a free detector from that company in exchange for field testing and promotion of that brand. Why do think field tests in TH'ing magazines are never very critical if critical at all (rare)???? because the machine has no flaws??? NO! Think about it - you'll never read any field test trashing a MD for it's flaws. Why?
I do have brand loyalty and if you could go back and see all my finds with this machine - you might understand why. But if you want to listen to a DFX guy on Minelab forum - by all means go right ahead!
Just remember that most dealers are not unbiased about what they actually sell. I don't sell detectors - I just use them.
Hello VAR'
Your posts are a 'rare feast', in what has sometimes been a trash-can of garbage kick-about, slanging match.
I mark you down in my book as one of the most astute 'commentators' I've had the pleasure of 'listening' to, in this otherwise negative debate.
Enough said on that point.
.....................................
I strongly agree with you on the point recalled in the following sectioned quote from your post 572.
QUOTE:- So basically, it chaps my hide that someone decided the "cursor needed to settle down in order for users to accept it". In this case, I'm dissatisfied because the cursor has been programmed to reject info I could use to help make my decision to dig.(End quote)
Var...I can't imagine how that concept ever got off the floor and into the design strategy for the Explorer II.
Further more....How was it allowed to survive the later field-trial stages I'll never figure out?
Who ever Minelab engaged in doing such tests, were not up to the required standard, in my opinion.....Sad, for it is a great machine
May I add just two other personal observations?
The pin-pointing is decrepit, compared to it depth capabilities.
Of the variety of audio options made available, WHY WAS NO PROVISION MADE TO ADJUST THE *NORMAL* audio tone?
.....MattR.UK.
Your posts are a 'rare feast', in what has sometimes been a trash-can of garbage kick-about, slanging match.
I mark you down in my book as one of the most astute 'commentators' I've had the pleasure of 'listening' to, in this otherwise negative debate.
Enough said on that point.
.....................................
I strongly agree with you on the point recalled in the following sectioned quote from your post 572.
QUOTE:- So basically, it chaps my hide that someone decided the "cursor needed to settle down in order for users to accept it". In this case, I'm dissatisfied because the cursor has been programmed to reject info I could use to help make my decision to dig.(End quote)
Var...I can't imagine how that concept ever got off the floor and into the design strategy for the Explorer II.
Further more....How was it allowed to survive the later field-trial stages I'll never figure out?
Who ever Minelab engaged in doing such tests, were not up to the required standard, in my opinion.....Sad, for it is a great machine
May I add just two other personal observations?
The pin-pointing is decrepit, compared to it depth capabilities.
Of the variety of audio options made available, WHY WAS NO PROVISION MADE TO ADJUST THE *NORMAL* audio tone?
.....MattR.UK.
I've not had much of a problem pinpointing, but then again my experience level is pretty low. My state is a "written permission ONLY" state, and far too many people have either had bad experiences with previous detectorists (and said so) or simply don't like the idea of someone on their property, or further still, don't like the idea of someone "taking THEIR stuff".
Sort of a funny concept "THEIR stuff" because any finds are forevermore relagated to rotting away or dropping out of reach unless someone finds them with a metal detector! Certainly I understand at least the the concept of "mine" but only if you are willing to find it!
Anyway, on the targets I've found in my gold-belt soil have been relatively shallow (no 14 inch deep quarters!) but have hit well enough in both normal and pinpoint modes. Once that changes and I do have pinpoint problems at depth, I'll be sure and post the same.
Someone mentioned detector reviews and how glowing the reports always seem to be. Well, there are two distinct types of testing, pre-release and post production. Folks like Andy S. and others have built a phenominal record of metal detecting, and have been invited to be on the inner track of development. These are the reviews that are between field tester and the designers, the reports we aren't privy to. Post production review machines (let's call it the freebies for reviews program) are an entirely different animal. The factory is hoping against all odds that the reviews go well and generate business. I'm not prepared to call it underhanded, but I am prepared to state that they HOPE the critical comments are at a bare minimum.
I wondered for only a short time how I would react if given a "freebie for review" unit. I came to the conclusion that my review would be scathing on the items I didn't like, and only mildly praising on the items I did. I feel I owe that much to my fellow detectorists as well as the company in question. There is little value in having the company sell 1000 units on a sing-song series of reviews, only to have those sales collapse when the word finally gets around that a "non-issue" turns out to be a huge issue in the field. If there ends up being a real problem with a unit, the "flowery" reviewers AND the company end up taking a hit, and future business will suffer, IMO. Some might ask how I would dare be so "backstabbing when you were GIVEN a unit for review", my simple reply is my integrity is not for sale or trade.
Anyway, I wish you all the best, and thanks again for the kind comments.
DAS
Sort of a funny concept "THEIR stuff" because any finds are forevermore relagated to rotting away or dropping out of reach unless someone finds them with a metal detector! Certainly I understand at least the the concept of "mine" but only if you are willing to find it!
Anyway, on the targets I've found in my gold-belt soil have been relatively shallow (no 14 inch deep quarters!) but have hit well enough in both normal and pinpoint modes. Once that changes and I do have pinpoint problems at depth, I'll be sure and post the same.
Someone mentioned detector reviews and how glowing the reports always seem to be. Well, there are two distinct types of testing, pre-release and post production. Folks like Andy S. and others have built a phenominal record of metal detecting, and have been invited to be on the inner track of development. These are the reviews that are between field tester and the designers, the reports we aren't privy to. Post production review machines (let's call it the freebies for reviews program) are an entirely different animal. The factory is hoping against all odds that the reviews go well and generate business. I'm not prepared to call it underhanded, but I am prepared to state that they HOPE the critical comments are at a bare minimum.
I wondered for only a short time how I would react if given a "freebie for review" unit. I came to the conclusion that my review would be scathing on the items I didn't like, and only mildly praising on the items I did. I feel I owe that much to my fellow detectorists as well as the company in question. There is little value in having the company sell 1000 units on a sing-song series of reviews, only to have those sales collapse when the word finally gets around that a "non-issue" turns out to be a huge issue in the field. If there ends up being a real problem with a unit, the "flowery" reviewers AND the company end up taking a hit, and future business will suffer, IMO. Some might ask how I would dare be so "backstabbing when you were GIVEN a unit for review", my simple reply is my integrity is not for sale or trade.
Anyway, I wish you all the best, and thanks again for the kind comments.
DAS
You may want to look back a few weeks on the dfx fourm.One of the newer users(Desmond) found 10 mercs,2 barber and 6 seated dimes in three trips to a local park.I've found loads of barbers myself but don't usually post pics of the newer stuff.Both machines work well,but are only as good as the user swinging it.Dave
Jason in TN
New member
No sir I am selling nothing and am not a DFX man I own almost one of every top end brand and said in one of my other post that the Explorer will out perform the DFX in certain situations. And the DFX will do the same That is why I use and own both. Just trying to be friendly and help out here. I will say again 100% that the DFX has more adjustments than the Explorer. Does this make it a better detector sometimes but not all of the time. The Explorer will get more depth under most circumstances. I love them both. The one I use depends on what I want to find and where I am hunting.
Mike (Virginia Beach)
New member
And we all know the Mustang wins THAT one hands down! 
As has been said, just because the DFX has more adjustments doesn't make it better. It might make somebody wonder why the Explorer II has the reputation of having such a dreadful learning curve.
I've had the DFX and currently have the Explorer II. Both are sophisticated and complicated machines. Both have competent performance right out of the box but can really shine when "tweaked". Both are the flagship machines of their respective companies, and rightfully so.
I really like what Varmint said too, about the many users who buy an Exlporer and don't give it a chance, quickly determining that it's too complicated. And also what was said about people jumping on programs that push the edge of performance (and DO work) but carry the "negative" of also making the machine somewhat unstable and intimidating for the new user who's trying to learn the machine. The "Dave Z" program for the DFX and the "Charles' Rock Solid Setup" for the Explorer are classic examples of this.
Bottom line, both machines can (and do) kick butt in the right hands when used properly. And there are a number of different ways to "properly" use them.
As has been said, just because the DFX has more adjustments doesn't make it better. It might make somebody wonder why the Explorer II has the reputation of having such a dreadful learning curve.
I've had the DFX and currently have the Explorer II. Both are sophisticated and complicated machines. Both have competent performance right out of the box but can really shine when "tweaked". Both are the flagship machines of their respective companies, and rightfully so.
I really like what Varmint said too, about the many users who buy an Exlporer and don't give it a chance, quickly determining that it's too complicated. And also what was said about people jumping on programs that push the edge of performance (and DO work) but carry the "negative" of also making the machine somewhat unstable and intimidating for the new user who's trying to learn the machine. The "Dave Z" program for the DFX and the "Charles' Rock Solid Setup" for the Explorer are classic examples of this.
Bottom line, both machines can (and do) kick butt in the right hands when used properly. And there are a number of different ways to "properly" use them.
The normal audio mode having a adjustment, I never have liked the normal audio mode and have always used audio 1, the normal audio just resets way too fast to my liking and giving me the thought that I will pass good deep targets. Yes I know most use it and do well with it so I guess it is a mere personal preference for me but I am glad the Exp has the adjustments that is has as it allows a fairly good range to suit personal tastes.
Steve(MS)
Steve(MS)