A buddy of mine and I went on a hunt today. Wjile on the way home (125 miles) he was explaining an oddity of the Deus. He had a very high end Diamond stud earing (unknown metal) that he said his Deus would not hit...and his GM Power from across the pond wouldn't either! I unashamedly told him mine would! When we returned from our hunt we tested the stud on my Deus in my program and no problem! Hit it fine. Then we swithched to stock programs and darn if none of the stock programs could hit the stud even with 0 disc, 0 reactivity -1....except the Gold Field Program. Then I switched to full tones on the stock programs and whala, all could hit the stud. Somehow stock programs tone out the stud.....interesting.
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Did a test today and found something odd about the Deus
- Thread starter BerntOut
- Start date
beepsilver
Member
I had a sneaky suspicion about full tones!
Old California
New member
Hello Brent,
Was great getting out with you today, Fun day for sure.
With todays test on the earring stud, Had a feeling what the reasoning was and todays test puts this test to rest. Now, I know why the Deus with using preset programs wasn't getting the earring stud.
What's happening is even thought iron disc may be set at 0 the program still has some form of preset iron discrimination built in that we're not aware of. As we seen today, Using Full Tones eliminates this iron preset, Using any of the other tone features enables iron preset even with using 0 discrimination, That's what's happening so it appears Full tones may have an edge.
I've read from some users claiming the Deus does not fare well with coins on edge, I've never experienced this but with todays Full Tone experience with the earring stud maybe using Full Tones will enhance coins on edge? Apparently, Full Tones is just that (FULL TONES) one hears everything which should reduce masking.
Unless XP changes the software with an upgrade, Full Tones may be the tone feature to use. Then on the other hand, Maybe this preset iron disc is put in for a reason to help eliminate ground noise?
Had a good day Brent,
Paul (Ca)
Was great getting out with you today, Fun day for sure.
With todays test on the earring stud, Had a feeling what the reasoning was and todays test puts this test to rest. Now, I know why the Deus with using preset programs wasn't getting the earring stud.
What's happening is even thought iron disc may be set at 0 the program still has some form of preset iron discrimination built in that we're not aware of. As we seen today, Using Full Tones eliminates this iron preset, Using any of the other tone features enables iron preset even with using 0 discrimination, That's what's happening so it appears Full tones may have an edge.
I've read from some users claiming the Deus does not fare well with coins on edge, I've never experienced this but with todays Full Tone experience with the earring stud maybe using Full Tones will enhance coins on edge? Apparently, Full Tones is just that (FULL TONES) one hears everything which should reduce masking.
Unless XP changes the software with an upgrade, Full Tones may be the tone feature to use. Then on the other hand, Maybe this preset iron disc is put in for a reason to help eliminate ground noise?
Had a good day Brent,
Paul (Ca)
I have been hunting in Full Tones for a few months. I believe Full Tones gives me an edge for more and deeper targets. Until yesterday's experiment, I could not figure out why......now we know.
Yea, I had a great time hunting with you too Paul. You have the best sites to hunt for sure! THANK YOU!
Yea, I had a great time hunting with you too Paul. You have the best sites to hunt for sure! THANK YOU!
Low-Boy/LCPM
Active member
Interesting I have never liked or uses full tones would you mind sending me the stud so I can test it? Now you said the stud was made of a metal that your are not sure of and I'm sure it is very thin and small maybe there is a reason the deus didn't hit it. I wonder if that would make a difference in iron or I'm sure the use of full tones would in no way hinder a hunt in any type of ground...keep up the good work
Old California
New member
Same here LowBoy,
Never cared for full tones for relic hunting, Prefer two tone or sometimes 3 tone depending on the machine.
Although the stud is of high end and does have a diamond, The stud alloy falls in the iron range and to be honest haven't a clue what type of metal it is only that it ID's as iron. It's big enough to be easily detected by most top end detectors, But will ID as iron. With the Deus and GMP, These two units have some form of preset iron discrimination even when operating with 0 disc, Noticed this a while back first with the GMP then the Deus. I believe XP did this for a reason, What ever reason that only XP would know and maybe for good reason?
However, Full Tones will detect the stud but not any of the other tone features using 0 disc setting. Using Full Tones eliminates the iron preset as used with other tone features, I know sounds crazy but that's what's happening all the other tone features apparently have some form of preset iron disc programed into them.
Sure, PM me your mailing address and I'll forward you the stud. You'll see what we experienced and most likely come to the same conclusion. Does this preset iron disc hinder or improve? Maybe both.....
HH, Paul (Ca)
Never cared for full tones for relic hunting, Prefer two tone or sometimes 3 tone depending on the machine.
Although the stud is of high end and does have a diamond, The stud alloy falls in the iron range and to be honest haven't a clue what type of metal it is only that it ID's as iron. It's big enough to be easily detected by most top end detectors, But will ID as iron. With the Deus and GMP, These two units have some form of preset iron discrimination even when operating with 0 disc, Noticed this a while back first with the GMP then the Deus. I believe XP did this for a reason, What ever reason that only XP would know and maybe for good reason?
However, Full Tones will detect the stud but not any of the other tone features using 0 disc setting. Using Full Tones eliminates the iron preset as used with other tone features, I know sounds crazy but that's what's happening all the other tone features apparently have some form of preset iron disc programed into them.
Sure, PM me your mailing address and I'll forward you the stud. You'll see what we experienced and most likely come to the same conclusion. Does this preset iron disc hinder or improve? Maybe both.....
HH, Paul (Ca)
That stud is so small of a unknown metal that it has to be very close to the coil for the Deus to get it in an air test. Not sure why a test in iron is necessary but I think the only way to test it would be to lay it on the ground and do the test. I believe the Deus and BlissTool would get it at maybe even a couple of inches.
Myself and I believe others through much experimentation have discovered Full Tones is the setting to use with the Deus. I use it exclusively during all my hunts. I have a lot of confidence in this machine and am very curious what the Engineers at XP are going to improve with the next release....I for one think a tiny hockey puck coil would be the best improvement....expensive as that might be.
Myself and I believe others through much experimentation have discovered Full Tones is the setting to use with the Deus. I use it exclusively during all my hunts. I have a lot of confidence in this machine and am very curious what the Engineers at XP are going to improve with the next release....I for one think a tiny hockey puck coil would be the best improvement....expensive as that might be.
jtalley007
Active member
Paul, as you know, generally speaking any form of discrimination affects depth, worse the minerals, more affect, etc.
That's why I LOVED the Mark One. Could run zero disc and listen for any tone above iron. I w0nder now if some of the depth we got was due to this fact and setting?
That's why I LOVED the Mark One. Could run zero disc and listen for any tone above iron. I w0nder now if some of the depth we got was due to this fact and setting?
PryorCreekJoe
Member
Posted on garysdetecting.co.uk, Sep 13, 2013, by Gary
My Deus version 3.2 programs and tips
I have assigned them 2 names "Hot" and "Cold"
Cold is for cold searching, this is when you are on a new field and are trying to find the hot spots, or simply coin shooting / relic hunting
Hot is to be used when you have found your area of ancient habitation and want to get the most out of your productive patch, this setting finds tiny Roman and hammered coins amongst iron and has a unique high tone which is great for identifying high conductive targets such as deep silver coins or large artefacts.
Use factory defaults if feature is not mentioned
Cold
Load up the default Gold Maxx Power settings....Change
Discrimination.....6
Tones...2 tones >Tone 1 (202) Tone 2 (702)
Frequency....11.7
You can see how close to the factory pre sets these settings are, however small tweaks can make a big difference.
Hot
Load up the Deus fast program....Change
Discrimination.....between 0 and 5, if you have problems identifying differenced between low tones use disc 5 and dig every repeatable tone
Tones....Full tones
Iron Vol.....0
Audio response....3-4
Here we have some big changes, at first don't be afraid to use a discrimination of 3 - 5 until you get used to the audio feedback.
My Deus version 3.2 programs and tips
I have assigned them 2 names "Hot" and "Cold"
Cold is for cold searching, this is when you are on a new field and are trying to find the hot spots, or simply coin shooting / relic hunting
Hot is to be used when you have found your area of ancient habitation and want to get the most out of your productive patch, this setting finds tiny Roman and hammered coins amongst iron and has a unique high tone which is great for identifying high conductive targets such as deep silver coins or large artefacts.
Use factory defaults if feature is not mentioned
Cold
Load up the default Gold Maxx Power settings....Change
Discrimination.....6
Tones...2 tones >Tone 1 (202) Tone 2 (702)
Frequency....11.7
You can see how close to the factory pre sets these settings are, however small tweaks can make a big difference.
Hot
Load up the Deus fast program....Change
Discrimination.....between 0 and 5, if you have problems identifying differenced between low tones use disc 5 and dig every repeatable tone
Tones....Full tones
Iron Vol.....0
Audio response....3-4
Here we have some big changes, at first don't be afraid to use a discrimination of 3 - 5 until you get used to the audio feedback.
CZconnoisseur
Active member
Full tones at least for me seems to be more sensitive to all types of targets - and as many of us are aware most of the factory programs have Disc set between 5 and 10 which does eliminate most iron targets and make for a more stable unit, at the cost of deeper and smaller targets.
I realize that air testing has limited value, but the depth and sensitivity DIFFERENCE between factory presets and any CUSTOM program with similar parameters is very noticeable - I conducted a slew of tests last year along these lines; and then again when 3.2 was reloaded - and noticed the same trend. Using a Disc = 2.0 and notching out iron (2-10) seems to have the same effect as using Disc = 10 - if you are not interested in hearing the iron, but less Disc equals more sensitivity in all cases.
The problem with using 2,3,4, or 5 tone audio IMO is that if you have a target that is on the edge of being notched then you run the risk of misinterpreting that target for junk (not digging it) if there is a lot of trash present. We know that the VDI of some targets is NOT reliable in some cases, and Full tone audio is closely correlated with the VDI reading. So if you have an Indian cent that reads "53-55" in 4 khz for example and your notch (in anything BUT full tones) runs from 41-55 (to help with aluminum trash), you may not dig that signal because of it being "clipped" due to the lack of full tones. Targets that have remained in the ground a long time very frequently will not have a steady VDI...and Full tones will tell you this information via audio as opposed to changing VDI readings. I don't know how many nickels I've dug that don't sound like much, but are deeper and severely corroded giving them a "cloudy" appearance to the software vs a freshly buried coin with no "halo" present.
I worked some fairly mineralized and trashy ground over the weekend and found a lot of good targets that didn't sound like much - Full tones may take a little while to learn but it will pay dividends once you get a good feel for it
I realize that air testing has limited value, but the depth and sensitivity DIFFERENCE between factory presets and any CUSTOM program with similar parameters is very noticeable - I conducted a slew of tests last year along these lines; and then again when 3.2 was reloaded - and noticed the same trend. Using a Disc = 2.0 and notching out iron (2-10) seems to have the same effect as using Disc = 10 - if you are not interested in hearing the iron, but less Disc equals more sensitivity in all cases.
The problem with using 2,3,4, or 5 tone audio IMO is that if you have a target that is on the edge of being notched then you run the risk of misinterpreting that target for junk (not digging it) if there is a lot of trash present. We know that the VDI of some targets is NOT reliable in some cases, and Full tone audio is closely correlated with the VDI reading. So if you have an Indian cent that reads "53-55" in 4 khz for example and your notch (in anything BUT full tones) runs from 41-55 (to help with aluminum trash), you may not dig that signal because of it being "clipped" due to the lack of full tones. Targets that have remained in the ground a long time very frequently will not have a steady VDI...and Full tones will tell you this information via audio as opposed to changing VDI readings. I don't know how many nickels I've dug that don't sound like much, but are deeper and severely corroded giving them a "cloudy" appearance to the software vs a freshly buried coin with no "halo" present.
I worked some fairly mineralized and trashy ground over the weekend and found a lot of good targets that didn't sound like much - Full tones may take a little while to learn but it will pay dividends once you get a good feel for it
Well said CZ. I wish I could explain these metal detecting "things" as well as you and others on this XP Forum.
When Paul and I did the air test...and yes, we know air tests are not real world so to speak, we loaded up stock programs, zeroed out disc, stud was not detected, This indicates factory programs we tested on each of our Deus' still had some factory set disc. (??) built into those programs even when disc was set to zero (??). We tried other setting within the stock programs and still dead on the stud. Gold Fields program easily hit the stud. I had suspected this phenomena after going to the dark side of Full Tones but am to dumb to have put it together until we did this test. Now it all makes sense!
I REALLY REALLY like my Deus a lot and I have not ever been truly "enamored" with a metal detector until now!
When Paul and I did the air test...and yes, we know air tests are not real world so to speak, we loaded up stock programs, zeroed out disc, stud was not detected, This indicates factory programs we tested on each of our Deus' still had some factory set disc. (??) built into those programs even when disc was set to zero (??). We tried other setting within the stock programs and still dead on the stud. Gold Fields program easily hit the stud. I had suspected this phenomena after going to the dark side of Full Tones but am to dumb to have put it together until we did this test. Now it all makes sense!
I REALLY REALLY like my Deus a lot and I have not ever been truly "enamored" with a metal detector until now!
CZconnoisseur said:
CZ,
Since those targets didn't sound like much and you dug them anyway what was the advantage of full tones? Are you suggesting that they wouldn't have sounded in 3 or 5 tones at all or that they would have sounded even worse and for that reason not have been dug.
CZconnoisseur
Active member
Targets that are on the verge of being notched, like 1-2 points away from the edge of the window, can sometimes get clipped since the VDI of some targets doesn't always lock on to ONE number. If there's trash close to the target it may skew the numbers, or else read normally in one direction, but be a few VDI points higher or lower on a cross-scan. In these cases, a cross-scan would make the target sound "worse" in 2-5 tone audio vs Full tones...You get more audio info and (I can't prove this, but...) iffy targets are more pronounced which would incline you to want to dig! So to answer the question, I would think some targets would sound worse - but those may the ones you'd want to dig in an old enough site.
I remember one specific target at my last house that jumped around in the 70s but wouldn't settle...I was in 4khz Reactivity 4 IIRC right next to the house. Got down to 5" and found a silver quarter with several roofing nails above the quarter, and some at the same level as the quarter. The pinpointer indicated more iron below the quarter...what was happening was the iron was "pulling down" the VDI of the quarter and it tried to average out somewhere in the low-mid 70s while a clean silver quarter will hit "86" almost every time in 4khz. I didn't switch to 2 or 3 tone audio with this target, but there was enough of a high-tone coming through that sounded "round enough" for me to investigate further. Found a silver Rosie not far away from this mixed in with roofing nails as well - this one was a one-way hit and silent on a cross-scan.
Full tones will make it easier to pull nickels - I don't know why but it's true IMO! Dug plenty of beavertails that sounded very similar, but many of the deeper, older nickels have a steady "yerp" sound that is smoother than some aluminum hits. Most aluminum tends to be a little more crackly than a round coin, exception to this being those round ring tabs...
I remember one specific target at my last house that jumped around in the 70s but wouldn't settle...I was in 4khz Reactivity 4 IIRC right next to the house. Got down to 5" and found a silver quarter with several roofing nails above the quarter, and some at the same level as the quarter. The pinpointer indicated more iron below the quarter...what was happening was the iron was "pulling down" the VDI of the quarter and it tried to average out somewhere in the low-mid 70s while a clean silver quarter will hit "86" almost every time in 4khz. I didn't switch to 2 or 3 tone audio with this target, but there was enough of a high-tone coming through that sounded "round enough" for me to investigate further. Found a silver Rosie not far away from this mixed in with roofing nails as well - this one was a one-way hit and silent on a cross-scan.
Full tones will make it easier to pull nickels - I don't know why but it's true IMO! Dug plenty of beavertails that sounded very similar, but many of the deeper, older nickels have a steady "yerp" sound that is smoother than some aluminum hits. Most aluminum tends to be a little more crackly than a round coin, exception to this being those round ring tabs...
CZ thanks for the reply. Still trying to get my head and ears around using full tones and the potential benefits. Coming from a CTX it is hard to want to investigate many targets that only hit one way while not sounding great to begin with; have probably passed up some good ones.
When I first got the Deus I never hunted in FT but when I did, it really changed things up for me and I liked them after a few hunts. I like digging a lot of iffy tones, in return I dig a lot of "junk" but have recovered some great deep keepers too. The other day I was relic hunting and got a 1902 Indian head which sounded like a pull tab but I dug it cuz of where I was at. I usually would probably not dig that particular tone in a park...unless it is a very old park! LOL! I also did not dig much iron but dug more modern day can slaw than I'd like to admit and some earlier pull tabs but that is normal at this particular site. My hearing is very bad and maybe that is why I like FT's? When I hear high tones or some mid tones and after exploring the target with the detector and it gives me an idea of it's "shape", I decide to Dig It or not and pass up the low iron grunts....unless I am digging everything, which I do at certain sites.
In my opinion and experience, hunting in full tones gets me more good targets that 2 - 5 tones as Paul and my test proved, simple as that.
In my opinion and experience, hunting in full tones gets me more good targets that 2 - 5 tones as Paul and my test proved, simple as that.