Disc and Notch

[jamesinwesttexas]

I've been having a great time finding coins and trash with the GT and the 8 inch Tornado, definitely still in the learning mode. The only meter I have is the bar graph, but I'm learning to use it and it's a great help. Most advise no notch or disc but for what it's worth let me report what I'm finding out by experimenting a little in my test garden, ground about 70 on an MXT. I have a thin gold ring, 10k, that I found in a tot lot, with meter [the bar graph] bouncing between foil and nickle. My settings are disc mode with iron mask on, sensitivity at 11:30, threshold a bare hum. I can run the disc up to the 4th dot on the disc knob and still get a good sound from this ring. I have a fatter 10k gold ring that I bought from a street person in Mexico, reading about the same as a zinc penny on my meter. I can set the notch between the 2nd and 3rd to the last dot on the knob and still get a good tone from this ring. Also, at this setting, I can just get a good tone from a nickle while just killing a pesky square tab that I often mistake for a nickel. At this setting, a gold plated square charm I found in Mexico sounds good. I get a good tone from a small Alaskan gold nugget, a picture with it on a wheat penny I once posted on this forum. Also, a quartz rock with some specimen electrum I found in central America will sound off good with the disc at that setting, reading between foil and nickle. These settings seem to rule out a lot of common trash while giving a good shot at the gold and the coins. Of course some good stuff would be missed and I certainly would not use these settings at every site. Let me know what you think and don't be afraid to be critical, that's how we learn, and thanks for all the advice I've gotten on this forum.
James

 

[chuck ky]

i have an older sovereign xs but i thnk the disc. is the same on the gt. at full disc. you should still be able to get the zinc pennies, also indian heads and some gold that reads higher.

 

[Neil]

Hi James,

Some points to consider would be, when you say you can run your disc up to the 4th dot and still get that small ring, that when you cut your disc point that close to an item your increasing your risk of masking said target. It just leaves to small a window on the lower end so perhaps a small piece of foil or item disced out could now more easily mask that ring out.
On the ring you have that reads as a zinc, thats a pretty high reading for a gold ring. Ive only found two that would ring up that high, and Ive found a load of rings over the years.
personally I dont like using the notch system but I mostly beach hunt and digging is fairly easy. any setting you choose on disc/notch is gonna increase your masking on those adjacent targets(to your disc/notch setpoints). I do see what your saying about cutting down on trash, the idea is good, always good to look for ways to increase finds.
I would guess youve seen the list of rings Fisher sampled when they developed the CZ series? They then listed probabilities/percentages to the rings based on what areas they fell into(foil range, nickel range, pulltab range and so forth). Its an interesting read and could get one thinking along the lines your doing but take a look at the ring Ron from Michigan just found and he tells us it fell in the pulltab range which the notch system can knock out that also, get my drift? you never know what your gonna run your coil over, no matter what anyone tells you about percentages on types/sizes of rings or gold targets, they are just to varied. what we do know is the low end and high end(small iron to zinc penny) are solid points for gold jewelrys and some gold coins.

 

[jamesinwesttexas]

Thanks for the comments Chuck and Neil. There are no easy answers to hunting in trash. The dig it all approach is a hard bullet to bite. I think maybe learning the tones may ultimately be the best answer, after all the great discriminating ability of the Sovereign must be worth something. Anyhow, it's fun trying to learn it. James

 

[jamesinwesttexas]

I might add to this subject since I brought it up that Critter's thread beginning Nov 2009 this forum Spliitting Hairs On Ring VDI Numbers is very informative especially the first page with responses from Crazyman and others. As to the CZ study, Monte, on the Technetics forum, March 2, 2011 had some interesting things to say. I think I would have to agree that if you're looking for gold rings, concentrate on areas where they are lost [ ex. beaches, tot lots, sports fields] and dig all nonferous targets. Other, more trashy areas, I would do some disc and notching or at least pay close attention to the tones. James

 

[Neil]

James first/foremost the tones in disc are important to learn on the Sov. Probably the number one thing anyone will tell you to learn. there are subtle audio differences between some gold targets and say a pulltab even though they may ID on the meter the same or closely.
As far as where a target hits on any meter, that should be used as a general guideline only and I wouldnt base my digs solely on that unless time is limited or its just a crystal clear single signal. often targets have other targets nearby, whether it be small bits of foil/iron, you name it, it all gets read if under your coil so that can change both tone and meter ID accuracy.

 

[jamesinwesttexas]

Neil, good advice, and I think that's the type of advice I was fishing for. I've learned something from you guys with the experience. Surely the meter can only give the electrical conductivity of the target but the tones like you say must be more important and I'm hoping that once I practice, practice, practice and get the experience using it, I can begin to pick up on those nuances of tone that may tell if it's a gold target. I have faith that the Sovereign should be able to do it..

 

[Buried Crap NJ]

Thanks for the comments Chuck and Neil. There are no easy answers to hunting in trash. The dig it all approach is a hard bullet to bite. I think maybe learning the tones may ultimately be the best answer, after all the great discriminating ability of the Sovereign must be worth something. Anyhow, it's fun trying to learn it. James

I dug a great ring (My Best)about three weeks ago at 177 and thought it was a penny. Since then I have not dug any other item of value since in the same park. I believe this to be because I am now discriminating too much by the numbers. Not the machine but me and that meter! I dig several dollars in clad each visit.
This location gets 2000 people a week and there should be more targets of value. I would think that if it gets lots of hunters there would be far less coins. Cherry picking parks is a common practices in parks do to trash. So that means I should be digging more trash less coins and since the cherry pickers are leaving pull tabs and nickles I should be able to find the rings left behind? This isn't the case so far. I am going back and digging every target with good tone regardless to the meter reading.
(The dig it all approach is a hard bullet to bite. )
When I found the ring I was in zero zero on both Disc and Notch I have since notched out sq tab! Not any more!
steve

 

[Neil]

Steve try this for an eye opener. with your notch set to take out square tabs, lay that ring you found on the ground and put a square tab a few inches from it and check the target with your sov, sweeping it at the speed your normally hunt at.

thats a heck of a good sized ring to come in at that high on the sov meter

 

[Rick(ND)]

With the Sovereign I find the tones is where it is at if you want the gold, but it is not 100% accurate either and there is where the meter number help too plus the most important experience with the Sovereign. The gold rings I have found or for that matter any interesting items like tokens, old dog tags and other misc targets if from knowing the Sovereign and digging a lot of trash to begin with, but soon you will see some items that read as trash as far a numbers on the meter just sound different, some have a smoother sound to them than those pull tabs we seem to see so much of. You just got dig those that act different then the normal trash.
The one that comes to mind more than any of them is the time I was detecting what was a old football field that had been really worked hard over the years. I like some challenging spots at times and I decided to work the front of the area where the stands used to be and full of rusty bottle caps, pull tabs and other trash trying to pull a few old coins out of the trash with the Sovereign as I knew it could be done with the Sovereign going slow enough. I did get a few merc and some wheat pennies, but was listening to all those pull tabs and nulls of the rusty caps when I hears a signal that sounded smooth like a nickle, but my meter read more like a beaver tail off the round pull tab. Now this sounded different than what I have heard before on the trash, sounded like a nickle read like a beaver tail at 140-141 as nickle read for me at 144-145 for me, but it sounded smoother and more full body than a beaver tail and what got me was it sounded deeper (weaker signal) than most pull tabs I have found, so it was one I wanted to dig as it didn't sound like the normal trash. When dug was the nicest gold ring i have ever dug and big too to read so low in numbers. Took it to a jeweler to have it checked out as it had no KT marking, was told it was very old and probably 18KT or better as it is softer than a 14KT. I have found other items like this too as I did all those that are deeper and repeatable no matter what the meter says as most trash for me is not real deep, dig all targets that sound different than my normal trash which you learn from experience as there is no short cuts finding gold and 100% for sure, just ways to eliminate some of the trash.
Since i have started doing this by digging trash signals that sound different and all deep signals that are repeatable i have more misc items in my collection that is not trash by any means.
I would love to hear of other veteran hunters with the Sovereign if you do it the same way on land where there is more trash from experience with the detector you have learned.

Rick

 

[jamesinwesttexas]

Interesting replies, especially Rick, that's about the best and most informative description of how to hunt for gold in trash that I've ever read. That post is definitely going into my permanent file. Makes me want to go back to some of the trashy spots I've been to, namely around some old abandoned bars and train station in Mexico. Although I made some interesting finds, I sort of gave up on those places thinking I would at least maybe take a rake to them first. That ground is literally a carpet of old bottle tops and other trash. Anyway, I also love to hear from the veteran users of the Sovereign as well as the experiences of the new users.
James

 

[chuck ky]

i haven't used my sovereign for awhile. i've been using the t-2 and explorer xs. you talked about digging all good tones but most of the signals i get are all good tones. i do remember 2 really bad ones when i first started using the sovereign and both where walking liberty halfs

 

[Critterhunter]

If you play with enough gold rings and trash you'll find the gold rings have a nice warm, round, smooth, "coin" shaped target type of response. Trash often sounds harsh, bangy, tinny, washed out, and so on.

 

[Buried Crap NJ]

Rick enjoyed your post also. I only have a few months with the GT and I have not been able to tell deep targets from shallow one's. Still learning the tones as they all seem dragged and scratchy to me. The coin signals minus the pennies have good tone. I tried critterhunter adjustment of the meter to see if I could get silver to read 181 over 180 for clad I dug the sterling bracelet last week but it read 180 could have been the low mass. Keep the post coming I want to be more confused next week when I hunt. steve

 

[Rick(ND)]

The meter reading takes some time and experience to tell the silver from the clad and not a 100% either and the same setting I have talked about for years. Once you get to know the Sovereign well you will see on those not super deep seem to hang more at 179-180 for the copper pennies and dimes, but the quarters and silver seem to lock more on the 180 and don't seem to go to 179 as much while the silver quarters, half's seem to lock right on to 180 and may just change to 181 once in a while. Alum cans also can do this and if they are big by raising the coil up 4 or 5 inches they don't seem to change the signal much, but a coin or smaller piece of alum can you will see there will be a difference.
Going slow and getting those signals and working them can tell you the depth too, one not real deep will be a bigger signal swinging the coil side to side while those that are deep seem to be a smaller area you get a response and you have to do shorter sweeps to keep it locked in, this also is a very good reason to go real slow in those older areas that many considered worked out so you can hear those smaller and weaker signal of a deep coin. Most with experience you can tell better than any depth meter on any detector just by the way it sounds.

Rick

 

[Buried Crap NJ]

Thanks Rick, My older Compass XP Pro I can tell depth by sound and coins from trash. But I have used it since 1991
I'll get there with the GT. steve