Even the town parks ordinance on digging. Metal detecting not mentioned.

[Digdoggy]

Hey all, I know as does everyone in CT that our state parks permit metal detecting but recovery is limited to picking up targets on the surface. We can't dig. But we have our town parks, not all it seems. You have to look up the ordinances and most terribly I did on a town I grew up in. A small town with a couple parks and the biggest was the old fair grounds. For yrs they had the circus there annually, carnivals and fairs and did so before I was moved there in 1964.
The wording is the exact same in any town that has the code. Reads something like - "No digging, removing or disturbing plants, soil, rocks exc....... and no excavating with any tool" as if someone has already argued or pleaded for use of the Lesche. Hmmm... its getting down to private property and beaches are going to be the only sites without risking a fine. Its time to invent that coil that lights a nice swath of ground under it. Headlamps can be seen across the park!

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Hey all, I know as does everyone in CT that our state parks permit metal detecting but recovery is limited to picking up targets on the surface. We can't dig.......

dig-doggy, to address this first: I do see what you're alluding to, if you're talking about the particular text, for example, on the FMDAC's state-by-state list. But notice it never said "no digging". It only said "surface collecting only". Believe it or not, some md'rs have come up with ingenious .... uh .... liberty with that to say that "probing" or "popping" is not the same as "digging". I realize this doesn't help you with very deep coins, but assume for the moment a target that is only, say .... 2 or 3" deep. You can conceivably probe to touch the target with a blunt long screwdriver, right ? Then slit (wriggle) the ground, insert fingers, and extract target. Technically no dirt was removed, so .... that is not digging in a lot of people's minds (and has passed legal muster, believe it or not! haha). And ...... while it's not as easy as making a plug, yet .... if it were me, and I was very determined, I am capable of getting down further than "2 or 3" with this method, doh!

Now of course this isn't to say that there might not be some lone person there, somewhere in state capitol, who would want to debate those semantics. But for pete's sake, isn't this where a little common sense on when you're going, and who you plan to parade yourself in front of, comes into play ? I mean, sure, don't waltz through an archie convention proudly proclaiming this distinction. But .... for in the middle of nowhere, it has been known to pass muster.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

..... But we have our town parks, not all it seems. You have to look up the ordinances and most terribly I did on a town I grew up in. A small town with a couple parks and the biggest was the old fair grounds. For yrs they had the circus there annually, carnivals and fairs and did so before I was moved there in 1964.
The wording is the exact same in any town that has the code. Reads something like - "No digging, removing or disturbing plants, soil, rocks exc....... and no excavating with any tool" as if someone has already argued or pleaded for use of the Lesche. Hmmm... its getting down to private property and beaches are going to be the only sites without risking a fine. Its time to invent that coil that lights a nice swath of ground under it. Headlamps can be seen across the park!

Some places do not have the word "dig" in their muni code. But you're right: they will, at a minimum, have something like "deface" or "disturb" or "excavate", etc.... Assuming that for the moment, then THINK of it: All such words inherently and distinctly refer to the END result. Do they not? In other words: If you left the ground exactly like you found it (covered your spot, left no marks, etc..), then technically speaking , you have not defacED, disturbED, or excavatED , now have you ?

Yes: if the evil "dig" word is used (an active verb) that's a bit more problematic. I suppose a person could argue dig versus dug, if they wanted to. Since that is CLEARLY the intent and spirit of the law, isn't it ?

All I can tell you dig-doggy is this: That ALL public land has such verbage (I mean, duh, did you really think any place "allows" vandalism, destruction, defacing, etc...?). So therefore if you/we are to think that such things automatically preclude detecting, then that's the day that you might as well for-go all public property everywhere. Eh ?

But on the contrary: detecting IS going on routinely at such places. And the vast majority of time, most reasonable people understand that if you're not making a mess, not being a nuisance, then they are not usually enforced. It's an interpretation issue. As proof of that: Notice that some md'rs have even been known to go "get permission" where those VERY RULES exist. They might be told something like "as long as you cover your holes", for instance. Well what does that tell you then ? : It tells you that rule(s) WERE a bit arbitrary and up for personal mood/whim interpretation. THE SAME FOR LOTS of laws that are purposefully written broadly in a "catch-all" manner, so as to be applied to various situations that may arise in the field, as an LEO may seem fit to use. For example: vague laws that forbid "annoyances", etc.... The mere fact that some cop, or city person can say "ignore that, you can dig, etc...", tells me this is the case. Because think of it: can they "allow" you to break the speed limit? Or tell you that stop signs don't apply to you when driving? No, of course not. Because THOSE things ARE clear cut. Hence I do NOT consider the verbage you list to necessarily mean no detecting. If someone cares to come out and alert me that they do, they're more than welcome to.

Oh, and as for the end part of your post: No, don't use headlamps. Just go on full-moon nights, and there's enough light to walk around, swing, etc... You can have a penlight on a lanyard to turn on when needed to look at dates on coins, etc.... Hunting turf at night is sseeeooo peaceful. So serene. No busy bodies to draw wrong connotations, etc....

 

[Digdoggy]

Yep, I like the once covered and everything back in place aspect then there's nothing been " disturbed " here. Actually that works for me. Didn't see the post on the FMDF. No matter same such code or wording. I actually was on my old hometown website. But my , confused from reading too much today in too many places, mind combined wording from two separate but annoying osources. Wife , little dog and I went out scouting old parks and state recreation areas in the countryside today. Read the ordinance this morning on the town website and read a sign at a town park with a huge "Open Space" with hiking trails area that had the No Digging rule jumping out in bold amongst such classics as the recovering and bagging of your dog poop verbage (not a bad idea).
Your right on the mark here with the mders are actively recovering targets leaving the area in a "Dug you say, what dug, where?. And I can cut a slit with the lesche and finger out a coin in record time nowadays. My pinpointing is spot on. I wrote this post today in a slight fececious with a tad of annoyance with the Imperial Town Regulators mood today. I'm going to detect and pop/slit n pop coins out of these places until they clearly outlaw detecting altogether in our parks. This is always a touchy subject and I can't believe I just wrote the word"outlaw" next to detecting. Eeeeewh. I'm gonna go to sleep and have happy thoughts and erase the thought.
HH...n keep "Digging".

 

[dirt doctor]

This is always a touchy subject and I can't believe I just wrote the word"outlaw" next to detecting. Eeeeewh. I'm gonna go to sleep and have happy thoughts and erase the thought.
HH...n keep "Digging".[/quote]

Here's a little something to think about there are actually detectors named Outlaw and Bandido .

 

[Tom_in_CA]

I have never completely understood the logic that going detecting at a place with no specific prohbitions, "might bring about a law". Ie.: someone sees you (d/t you've taken liberty to interpret that the "deface" rule means-the-end-result). Said person "doesn't like it", so .... presto, they invent a law.

The implied moral of the above series of happenings is usually meant to imply that the md'r, in that case, should have asked first "lest he bring about a rule that specifically spells out "no detecting", right? But this doesn't logically follow. Because let's just say for a minute that it's true that that person in authority might indeed come along and not like detecting , eh ? Ok then, what would have changed, had you gone in there BEFORE-HAND asking "can I?". If it's already a "given" that this supposed person "didn't like it", well, duh, guess what they're answer is probably going to be ? "no". Thus nothing's changed.

In fact, the only thing you gain by asking first (in the presence of no prohibitions) is simply the ACCELERATING of the "no", simply because you bring to them a "pressing question", in need of their princely blessing. So if someone's inclined to "not like it", then how does anything think that's changed by going in ahead of time and asking for their love and approval ? If anything it only FURTHERS the notion that something must be amiss or dangerous or harmful about this activity. Because, think about it: If the activity were innocuous and harmless, why would you be standing there asking if you can do it? This is not subconsciously lost on the person you're asking, so they're even MORE inclined to have some mental image of damage, etc....

This doesn't change the fact that, yes, it's entirely possible that "someone might not like it". You and I can not change the admitted connotations that this hobby has. You and I are not going to get every last person to love and condone us, roll out red carpets, etc.... So sometimes you just need to avoid types of persons who may not like it. Kind of like nose-picking: not necessarily illegal, but ... sheesk, don't we ALL kind of use a little discretion in our timing, lest we offend someone ?

 

[BillF]

I got booted from a park yesterday. Been there many times. The park attendant says his boss is afraid we'll hit the sprinkler system. Even though the city rules says we can detect in this park some supervisor has taken it upon themselves to say we cannot.
I have talked to this attendant before and he claims that he told his boss that I use good recovery techniques and have never given him any lip, which is true, but I feel he really is the reason for the ban. How else would his supervisor know?
He did give me the supers name and suggested I go to city hall and pitch-a-bitch, but I'm not sure how far to push this.
I wasn't a happy camper after this.

 

[Digdoggy]

I got booted from a park yesterday. Been there many times. The park attendant says his boss is afraid we'll hit the sprinkler system. Even though the city rules says we can detect in this park some supervisor has taken it upon themselves to say we cannot.
I have talked to this attendant before and he claims that he told his boss that I use good recovery techniques and have never given him any lip, which is true, but I feel he really is the reason for the ban. How else would his supervisor know?
He did give me the supers name and suggested I go to city hall and pitch-a-bitch, but I'm not sure how far to push this.
I wasn't a happy camper after this.

That stinks, Sorry Bill. On two occasions I've shown up when grounds maintainence were at a park. I keep right on going and opt for another site. I just don't want to put myself into any situation where I feel I'm being watched by someone with authority over the situation. I'm fortunate to be able to detect whenever I want. Others may only have their day off and just drove a good distance to find the greens keeper on site. I also believe as Tom put it above that volunteering out loud what we do, or putting the question on a authority figure is much more likely to get a No than a yes when asking if you can detect a site. You say its been allowed prior to this over zealous Barney Fife of a Lawn Mower Man stopping you. That's a tough one. I've read on some town websites, right after ordinances that the property/park manager on duty at the time can rule with his/her discretion. One site reads the mayor can give special permission to pick flowers, collect rocks, and even dig minerals. I'm sure the mayor would give the OK to detect then. That's a town in CT. You need to get on the website for that town and read find out if there's anything written like my example above on the mayor thing. Man,,,good luck..HH .hope you have some nice alternatives to that place.

 

[coondog]

Wow! That really stinks Bill. I have never been given the boot but I m trying to figure how I would honestly react to that.

I think I would have first called his bluff and said, well that's just stinks and I guess I'll have to stop detecting this park right after I see that in black and white or am arrested by Barney Fife.

Getting such a negative reaction to metal detecting is pretty rare for me, but I have the lucthary of having allot of sites to pop in and out of. The one park I hit hard last year I got to know the 2 grass cutters very well and we are on a first name bases. They were curious to what I was finding so I would give them updates. I think once they see your not digging up any fortunes they just kinda stop worrying what your digging up. I tell them my take is about a dollar an hour on a good day, and on the rare occasion I find a gold ring I get about .25 cent bonus for each hour I put in to find it. My highlites for that park were about 7 u.s silver's a couple silver rings and one 1867 silver French 50 cent piece. This was not a park till the 1940s so it must have been dropped by some traveler camping out on the forested hill where I found it. I have also found some brass sadle parts there.

I am not so friendly with the neighboring towns park workers because they are a bunch of tax waisting do nothings. I could go on for ever with the in your face abuse of tax payer money. I walked write up to one sleeping in a new truck while running with the heat on to stay warm. I got some nice photos then woke him up. I asked if he was having a tuff day at work and he assured me he worked so hard that day that he deserved a paid nap.

I think maybe bad reactions from some maybe jealousy because they think every time you digging something that you just found another gold ring. Then once they know your digging pennies per hour with an occasional cool find they stop dreaming of all the good treasures they could find once they get some time and a metal detecter.

Another advantage to hopping around is I never tear up an area so bad that it's noticeable. I learned last year at a area I hit hard and then we got no rain for months looked pretty ugly when I returned to the area to find dried out plugs and plugs dug out by critters looking for grubs. I have since improved my digging skills drastically since seeing that.

So hope you get that worked out Bill and hope to see you out there.

 

[BillF]

I have lots of parks here to hunt. Spokane has a population of about 250,000 but the founding fathers saw benefits in having a park for each neighborhood so we have a plethora of 100+ year old parks. The one I got booted from is about the oldest and largest, its my best shot for old coins in a town that has about 2.5 million detectors. Just kidding of course, but these places are pounded hard by others.
I guess why I'm so bothered by it is because some other jerk could decide to just change the rules at one of the other parks. I work for this city, I know how things work and if I make a stink about this it could impact some other location, because 2 supervisors happen to talk at the local watering hole or the next staff meeting.
I never argue with any of them, at least no more than to say its spelled out right in rules that I can be there. When they tell me to leave, I just leave. I don't want my attitude to be the reason for an all out ban. My wife thinks I should just go to another part of the park where they may not see me but I don't think its a good idea, right now.
Time may change the situation. I just wish we, as group, didn't have to deal with situations like this. Its such a harmless hobby.

 

[ChicagoJohn]

I got booted from a park yesterday. Been there many times. The park attendant says his boss is afraid we'll hit the sprinkler system. Even though the city rules says we can detect in this park some supervisor has taken it upon themselves to say we cannot.
I have talked to this attendant before and he claims that he told his boss that I use good recovery techniques and have never given him any lip, which is true, but I feel he really is the reason for the ban. How else would his supervisor know?
He did give me the supers name and suggested I go to city hall and pitch-a-bitch, but I'm not sure how far to push this.
I wasn't a happy camper after this.

Go on weekend while they are off from work!

 

[BillF]

I got booted from a park yesterday. Been there many times. The park attendant says his boss is afraid we'll hit the sprinkler system. Even though the city rules says we can detect in this park some supervisor has taken it upon themselves to say we cannot.
I have talked to this attendant before and he claims that he told his boss that I use good recovery techniques and have never given him any lip, which is true, but I feel he really is the reason for the ban. How else would his supervisor know?
He did give me the supers name and suggested I go to city hall and pitch-a-bitch, but I'm not sure how far to push this.
I wasn't a happy camper after this.

Go on weekend while they are off from work!

They work weekends, unfortunately.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

....Go on weekend while they are off from work!

Haha, good one John! As I read Bill's dilema, I thought the same thing. It was NOT a case of "actual law", as he was pointing out. But .... rather .... some one individual's personal whim or opinion, etc.... Thus it would seem to me that if Bill hadn't (or doesn't) run into that one person, then PRESTO, problem solved. I know that's not a perfect solution (because none of us likes to have to pick opportune times, etc....) But we have to admit that our hobby has connotations, and that not every last person on this planet is going to love and condone it.

As for the park being maintained and staffed on weekends, well, then a few other options: 6 to 7am on Sunday. Or federal holidays. Or even night-hunting for pete's sake. Heck, it's gotten to where I hunt park turf almost exclusively at night nowadays. NOT because I think there's anything illegal about md'ing at those sites, but ONLY so that I don't have be parade myself in front of someone who may decide on the spot that it might harm earthworms, or poke sprinklers, or whatever.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.... I guess why I'm so bothered by it is because some other jerk could decide to just change the rules at one of the other parks. ...

Don't be so quick to call this person's statement a new "rule". If someone comes up to me and says "you can't do that", I do not necessarily equate that to being a "new rule" that I must now go down to city hall and fight, etc.... For example: If a cop had been the one to come up to me, it may very well be that he's simply responding to a "miss lookie-lou" call. You know the psychology, where .... now he's got to justify the fact that he's just had to come all the way to the park, and now wants to please miss-lookie lou. I even had a cop be upfront with me once, and say, .... with a wink .... "it's the lady I such & such house on the corner, so just come back another day, or go around to the other end, etc...." But even if the cop had not volunteered such info as to his reason for coming, it's still possible that ... as I say .... they're just appeasing a griper. Same for a gardener: If he says "you can't do that", I do not interpret that as necessarily meaning it's a "rule". It might mean to just give the park a break for awhile, and pick a time when he's not going to be offended in the future.

..... I never argue with any of them, at least no more than to say its spelled out right in rules that I can be there. When they tell me to leave, I just leave. I don't want my attitude to be the reason for an all out ban....

Yes! Very good observation: If you or I try to debate them, and point out there's not a specific rule saying you can't, well.... THEN GUESS WHAT? They might be inclined to close that loophole and PROPOSE a rule or law at the next city council meeting! I've seen that happen before. And NOT just for someone debating or seeking clarification, but even for just asking at city halls "can I metal detect?". If asked in such away as to imply "show me the law to back up your answer", then ... while that seems to put the burden of proof on them to cite any such law (if one existed), yet it can back-fire and have the result of getting laws written. Doh!

 

[BillF]

Tom,
When I say I don't argue it isn't EXACTLY true. I did tell the gent that the printed rules state that I have the right to be there. He told me he knew, he has it 'right here on my IPad'. I knew then I couldn't win so I packed it in.
I'm there with you. I don't ask to do something. Just do it.
The funny thing is, this city is building a new freeway. It will be years before its complete. Acres and acres of homes have been purchased and destroyed and now they are vacant fields. But some bureaucrat with a name tag occasionally takes it upon themselves to stop someone MDing in one of these empty,weed infested lots. It pisses me off. I'm a state taxpayer who payed for these fields. So, I will not ask permission to be here. Or anywhere else for that matter from here on out.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

I hear you loud and clear on demolition sites, of the nature you describe. A buddy of mine owns a demolition company, so we have "carte-blanche" to any of his sites. Yum yum . And even his competitor company's sites if we really pushed it. Well, I mean if someone came and tried to boot us, he *could* whip out his cell-phone, call his competitor, and say "hey, do me a favor and authorize us....". But .... being as how he doesn't want to over-stay his welcome with that acquaintance (it is a competitor afterall), we keep things simple and ..... just hit them anyhow. Because, odds are, so long as you're not sticking out and/or being a nuisance, people will just assume you know what you're doing (looking for a pipe, or whatever). And in the chance that someone griped, we'd either give lip service, or "drop names" if we had to.

But yeah, there's demolitions my friend has done that just SIT there for an entire additional year, pending some other development eventually coming in, etc... What HARM can it possibly do if someone detects? So .... we just go. Not advocating this for any and everyone, if that's not your cup-of-tea, but .... on the other hand .... oh well .

 

[HaroldILL.]

I think 5 years from now you won't be able to detect anywhere. I'm sure everyone knows about are cook county forrest preserves being closed to detecting. I heard there is a state law on the books that will be pushed through the next 2 years or so baning parks also. So you better enjoy it while you can. What ever happened to that Medal detecting federation that was suppose to protect are right's?

 

[ChicagoJohn]

When I am at park and I am worry about park workers than cops! Cops did stop by to see how I am doing. When I see park workers then I leave! One time cop stop by and told me its okay to metal detecting because someone called cop to check on what I am doing! More important is never leave any holes and make sure grass look good!

 

[ChicagoJohn]

I think 5 years from now you won't be able to detect anywhere. I'm sure everyone knows about are cook county forrest preserves being closed to detecting. I heard there is a state law on the books that will be pushed through the next 2 years or so baning parks also. So you better enjoy it while you can. What ever happened to that Medal detecting federation that was suppose to protect are right's?

I know about (beep) Cook Co Forest Preserve! Lot of garbage out there! Many garbage cans are so full and over flowed garbage and 6 inch high grass! They seem pick up garbage and cut grass every other week!

 

[Ground_Hog_MD]

I have been seen detecting some of the NE Florida Water management areas along the St Johns river and St Augustine which saw heavy colonial
and civil war activity. i have even been stopped and spoken to one of the land management specialist and land manager himself.
both asked if i had any luck or found anything interesting, of course i told them no, and that if i did we would all be sailing.
chatted for a few minutes and went on detecting. not a word about not being able to detect there. i keep the land managers card
on me any time i detect in any of his areas, he may not have given permission, but he did not say to stop when he saw me.
and told me to have a good day, as i walked off into the park with my detector ... and as you say in order to avoid being told i cannot
detect there, i take extra effort to make sure there is no trace of my digging or holes.