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Explorer "Recover" options?

I read with great interest "Mike Moutray's Exp. setup program", I have also read many opinions that advise you should never have Fast & Deep "on"
at the same time, which leaves me a little confused by the following:
.
"Recover: Fast: I have this turned on most times except when I'm in very clean ground, I'll turn it off. This has the effect of making a faint audio signal "wider" in the sweep of the coil - the detector sort of grabs hold of the signal and sounds it out longer than with Fast turned on. In trashier situations you need Fast on so that the detector can process a signal to an audio and visual response on the meter faster and reset for the next signal to be processed - this is referred to as "target separation".

Deep: I always have this turned on! Never found a reason to have it off. Be careful to turn this on when you first set up your machine as this is normally off in the preset mode."


Am I not reading/understanding correctly or what? Help me out please.
 
When I first got serious about the explorers...I used a combination of Mike's settings...and GOLDDIGGER'S...and that was a NO lose combination.:clapping:

My personal reason for not running deep on is very simple....I already have my gain jacked to 10...so there is no reason for me to run deep on.

To me...when you run both high gain and deep on...it's like running your stereo at full volume...and getting a distorted sound through the speakers.

If I ran a lower gain setting of 7 or 8...I would probably run deep on...but I like my gain jacked.

We all have opinions as to what our ears prefer...and trust me...Mikes setup works...and works well...because I did very well with it for some time.

I then began to piddle...experiment...learn...etc...and decided to more "personalize" my settings.

I ran BOTH fast and deep ON for quite some time and did very well...but then as I said...began experimenting and found my personal preference was having them both off.

http://www.findmall.com/read.php?19,1224263,1224263#msg-1224263
 
Thanks Bryce for your reply. I certainly hope I did'nt come across as criticizing Mike's program. I was just confused
because, as I said most opinions are counter to running Fast/Deep "on" at the same time and Im still not sure if I read
it right....it does seem to imply however that since he never turned Deep off and sometimes used Fast on there would
be those times when both would be on. Like you say, No right or wrong way. Just trying to understand what he meant.
Being a newcomer/late bloomer I'm still trying to soak up as much knowledge as I can and most of you guys on this forum
have taught me a lot more than I could have ever learned on my own...Thanks again and keep up the good work.
 
Hi...No you didn't come accross as criticizing at all friend:thumbup:

And you're right...it can be very confusing...especially since there are so many ways that produce well.

I seriously hunted with both fast and deep on for at least a year and did very well...regardless of what the manual says:cool: :bouncy:

This forum has a ton of good fellers' who provide some useful info...so keep soakin' it in.:clapping:

Take care...and good luck hunting.
 
Who can disagree with any of Mikes setting after looking at his finds. I hunt with both off too for the same reason Bryce does. I like my gain at 9 because i still get a bit of modulation on deep targets. Its been awhile, but i think Mike runs gain at 7and a higher sensitivity to go along with deep on. While with a high gain like we run you run a lower sensitivity. Ill do what ever works in the area im hunting.... if i need fast on ill turn it on, ill open up the IM... go to Ferr, lower sensitivity what evers needed. The Explorers allow you a lot of flexibility to find your settings. Ask questions and learn what each of the settings do on burried targets. It takes awhile because initially you dont notice the slight differences.

Dew
 
Hi I wanted to know with the explorer se with a 13" ultimate Detech loop will I get better deeper results for coin sized objects adjusting the Gain to 10 and Deep-Off Fast-Off or running Deep On and keeping Gain at 6-8? Should I also run Sensitivity Automatic or manual 26 or higher?
 
Explorer.se said:
Hi I wanted to know with the explorer se with a 13" ultimate Detech loop will I get better deeper results for coin sized objects adjusting the Gain to 10 and Deep-Off Fast-Off or running Deep On and keeping Gain at 6-8? Should I also run Sensitivity Automatic or manual 26 or higher?

Whatever you wind up doing,remember that Sensitivity finds the target in the first place,Gain is in the audio stage that will dictate how loud it is. Turning Fast ON turns OFF some filtering,allowing the machine to be,well...faster. You may lose a bit of depth and accuracy for VDI,I haven't noticed too much of a difference but I'm nowhere near as experienced as most of these guys. Having Deep ON will enhance the audio on the weaker signals that the machine has already obtained and sent to the audio stage. Gain at 10 makes ALL signals,regardless of depth or strength,about the same-LOUD! So having Deep ON and Gain at 10 is overkill,I think it kind of distorts the signal some. Again,just some observations from a relatively green user of the Explorer2.
Manual Sensitivitiy does detect deeper in most,if not all cases. You don't need it pegged all the time,and with the Ultimate you're not going to get away trying for long. There will be bad ground conditions and EMI that will force you to use lower levels of Manual or go to Auto and let the machine set it. The more I've used my Explorer2 the more I see that running Manual Sens around 18-22 really does a good job finding the 8-10" coins. A genuine 10" coin is a hell of a find,not many guys do it much. That's because a 10" coin doesn't sound like a 5" coin,and guys look for that certain sound. Unless you're in sand or the cleanest dirt on earth,it isn't going to sound like a 5" coin,it'll be more broken sounding and may even have the Minelab "thunk" along with it. Also,when in Manual Sens,things are somewhat more cluttered in the audio,it's not just a clean clear coin signal. In Auto,things are very stable and easy to hear,in Manual it's picking up a lot more stuff because all of the frequencies are involved now. It takes some getting used to....
That being said,I do not have an Ultimate coil but I've heard nothing but good things about how deep they are. If you don't have a coin garden,maybe plant one if you have room. I'd also have to think that even at lower levels of Manual Sens,you'll have no problem finding the 7-9" coins and even the occasional 10-11 incher with the Ultimate. Personally,I'd run something like 18-22 Manual Sens,Gain 7/8,Fast Off and Deep ON. It should be noted that finding a basic set of settings and sticking to it helps to develop your acuity to the sound of coins at different depths. Putzing with the settings all the time can be detrimental to training your ears and brain for the sounds you're after. Experiment some to find what works for you in your sites and plant that coin garden if you can...
 
Thank you IDX I appreciate the sound advice. I cant wait to test my new loop on Saturday. There will be a learning curve and I will try Manual sensitivity to get used to it. I will look into possibly building a coin garden as well. I will also turn the DEEP on because it would be hard for me getting used Gain at 10 as every signal would sound the same. Im with you thank you so much. Cant wait till Saturday :geek:
 
Can you tell me IDX what do you use for discrimination: Iron Mask setting or minelab preset discrimination? which is better and why?
 
Ok,a few things will dictate results and they are, in order of importance...LOCATION,EQUIPMENT/OPERATOR,PERSEVERANCE. I don't know your level of experience so I'll assume you at least have been detecting SOME before. I will also say the Explorer SE is different in some ways than the Explorer2,which is what I have. I'll go so far as to assume the models are similar enough that you can run yours like mine and have similar results.
I've done quite well with the Explorer2,once you have a couple hundred hours of detecting time in you'll know what to do and what not to do,and what you CANNOT do,depending on the site you are in.
If I am in a site with little to no EMI,I will run Manual Sensitivity up until it's starts making erratic noises WHILE THE COIL IS SITTING STILL,and then turn it back down 2-3 points. Be sure to have your Threshold just barely humming so you can hear it,and it must remain humming WITHOUT ANY erratic noises for 10 seconds straight. That way I know the machine is stable,and for ME,the machine HAS to be stable. If you have EMI,the machine is interpreting that noise as actual signals,and you will not be able to tell a good faint deep target from an EMI false,you will chase your tail all day. Again,I'm assuming you don't have a lot of time with this machine,or any machine for that matter. The Explorers CAN be run at full Sensitivity and making all kinds of noise,but that is not for this discussion. If you're asking MY advice,you are not anywhere near running an Explorer full tilt. No worries,neither am I.
The coil/machine combo I LIKE the most and the combo I USE the most are different. I'll keep this conversation geared toward a larger coil. You are going to run the Ultimate 13",while I have a 12.5" Sunray X-12. The X-12 is the coil I use the most,because it is STABLE,gets very good depth even while running in Auto,and it is ACCURATE with tonal response,ID and separation.
This is how I run it,everywhere I go,with tiny tweaks as needed.
Tone section-
Threshold 5 (Be aware that changing the Threshold tone shifts the ENTIRE range of tones for targets,you'll see what I mean if you dont already know)
Variability 10 (This allows for the greatest difference between tones-very handy)
Limits 10 (This allows the machine to use its entire tonal range,just use it)

Volume section-
Max Limits 10 (Allows for full volume output,adjust the volume in your headphones as needed)
Gain 10 (Any target the machine sees that is not discriminated out will have the same or very similar volume)

Sounds section-
Ferrous (If you choose to run Ferrous,the machine will give you an audio response according to how Ferrous the item is. Be aware that if either in Ferrous or Conductive,the cursor placement and VDI remain UNCHANGED,only the tones you hear are different.)

Options section-
Response Normal (The other options just sound like crap to me)
Recover Fast and Deep are usually both OFF. If I'm having trouble in a lot of trash I may turn Fast ON,which allows the Recovery to be sped up to some degree,I usually notice that the signals are less robust and kind of "thin" when using this. It is a last resort when combatting trash with the large coil. I may turn Deep On when I'm in a field or a somewhat less trashy park and I'm having NO luck,just to try and reach a bit further. This is a SLOW SWING application,you're going for the deepest of the deep. Don't get caught swinging TOO slow,you'll miss stuff that way too,usually a 3-4 second sweep of 4-5 feet is what I use. You can certainly go slower than that,but it has to be fast enough to outrun the Autotune of the machine or it will interpret a super deep faint target as just more of the ground.)
Noise I always let it Noise Cancel by itself,automatically,before every hunt and again every 15-30 minutes,depending on how far I've travelled from my starting point. It may not be needed but if it was and you didn't do it,you could be sacrificing performance. Remember,in MY world,were looking for a stable machine,or as stable as we can get it,right at the edge of instability and then down a point or two. If you Noise Cancel at Manual 20 and you still get a bit of erratic behavior while the coil is motionless,turn it down to 19,18,17....you get the picture.

That's about it for settings. I run NO discrimination and listen for solid/fairly solid REPEATABLE high tones when coin hunting,which is all I do. I look for numbers with FE reading of less than 20 and CO readings of more than 22-23. Keep in mind this is DEEP coin hunting,6" and deeper. Coins shallower than that usually have better readings,lower FE readings and higher CO readings. CO numbers of 30-31 are generally hot rocks or junk of some kind,but multiple coins together can push funny numbers. If it sounds weird in all aspects you might want to check it out with the shovel...but if there's a certain amount of goodness to the signal and it's got that depth meter about empty,it should be investigated!

Lastly....Manual Sensitivity will get more depth in just about EVERY situation when used according to the above setup. It HAS to be stable. You will be very pleasantly surprised at how deep that Ultimate will find coins at silly depths with Manual Sensitivity used in moderation. High Manual Sensitivity will pick up on ANYTHING within the detection field of the coil,including the smallest flake of iron,minerals,etc and will WREAK HAVOC on your brain. DONT DO IT! Auto Sensitivity is great for that "Sunday drive" around the park when you just don't want to think about setups too much and you don't want any trouble. It'll cost you a couple of inches in depth but it's nice to use sometimes. Auto CAN and WILL go deep,but the ground conditions have to be very favorable,with the right moisture content,low minerals,light trash,etc. I have found MANY more DEEPER coins running Manual Sensitivity 18-22 than I have running ANY other way.

Use this advice at your own risk Grasshopper. It's what I do. As Bryce said,there really isn't any right or wrong,but there ARE certain setups that will optimize your coin hunting. The biggest difference with MY setup is running Ferrous ALL the time...EVERYWHERE. Once you run your SE for awhile you'll become acutely aware of why you should do something and why you shouldn't,according to where you are.

I'm tired,it's late,good night.
 
Wow thank you IDX I will run my machine Ferrous and Manual this is a big Christmas gift to me! If I find anything of value I will share pics! You know your stuff! I have about 15 years detecting experience but Ive always been the inpatient person who would always go for the low lying fruit but no more! My oldest coins are a 1916 Barber Dime and 1917 Mercury Dime. I'm still looking for my first Indian Head Penney. Ill keep swinging till I find one. I feel like I am closer to my goal with your information!

Thanks again IDX!

I'll keep you posted!
 
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