F19 and the gold bug coil

[dfmike]

I wanted to test out an old coil I had almost forgotten. I bought that coil on the used market not long after I purchased my F5. I must have tried it once or twice on that detector and wanted better ground coverage so I pretty much ditched it. I don't even remember using it once on the F19 so it was about time. Since the areas I search nowadays are high in trash,using small coils like this is the only choice when one wants to unmask what has been left behind.

It was good to spend some time with the F19 in dirt this time (I've been using it exclusively in sand as of late). The small coil did not disappoint and I was surprised to get some goodies after searching that same wooded area with my other detectors last year and in the spring. I spent about 3 hours in that area and I still have lots of ground to cover. That particular place is littered with foil, tin and rusty bottle caps. Detecting there is an exercise in patience since there is so much junk. The F19 being VCO, I would almost always ignore the targets that would scream loudly (mostly foil and tin within 2 inches from the surface) and check out the ID on softer tones. The 1945 Mercury dime was found at about 4 inches and the sound wasn't whisper quiet but it was much softer than the surface targets. It was not an easy target to find as there were 2 surface targets in the high 40's at about one inch to the right and left. Still, the F19 picked it up with a solid ID of 83 when moving the coil tightly in the middle. I'm sure a bigger coil would have ignored it in favor of the 2 trash items.

The 1932 CAD nickel was found nearby at 5 inches. Again, the sound was faint but ID was stable. I also found a 1953 USA nickel and a few pennies from the 40's and 60's.

The small coil impressed with with its unmasking capabilities but as expected the price to pay is lack of depth. A six inch silver dime would probably be a mere whisper with this coil if it could even get it at all even with gain maxed out. I sometimes wish the F19 had some kind of boost but would we lose the awesome ID stability ? I wonder.

I should be getting an MGC labs 5 X 8" DD coil this week, I'm hoping it will unmask as well as the Gold Bug coil and give me another inch so I can more easily get fringe targets.

 

[D&P-OR]

Good write up Mike, thanks for posting it.-----That little coil works/seperates in the iron (nails) excellently also.-----Del

 

[Rob in (Ca)]

Love the 5inch coil......On my Gold Bug I use only The All metal mode when using The 5 inch to make up the depth lost.

 

[dfmike]

Love the 5inch coil......On my Gold Bug I use only The All metal mode when using The 5 inch to make up the depth lost.

Does the Gold Bug have the same type display where in all metal only the Ground Balance value appears in the middle and a small notch up top indicates what the target is ? That is one of the reasons why I never use all metal with the F19. I would use it sometimes (in low trash) if the target ID would be displayed in the middle in all metal as it does in discrimination. At arms length, I can barely see the tiny notch display moving on top. Coin hunting in all metal and in high trash areas is not for me anyways. I have to kill the iron audio somehow or I go crazy after a few hours. I set the volume at 10 on the F19 and iron is no longer an issue.

I have read many times that all metal will yield an extra 2 inch with most coils on the F19 and G2+. I have seen this on youtube as well.

 

[still looking 52]

Dfmike, this year we've done nothing but woods hunting and I learned this little trick that helps me move through the high time surface trash found everywhere in the woods. When I get the loud signal my next step is to use my small hand held pinpointer and check what's going on with it before I try anything else, if my pinpointer won't pick up the signal then I know I've got a " decent" target worth more work. Most of the time my pinpointer will pick up the signal and the I just hit the spot with my shovel and out pops trash, saves time for me.

 

[Monte]

I used to use All Metal mode quite a bit, but mainly in those earlier-years of the '70s and '80s. By the mid-to-late '80s I was concentrating more and more on very densely littered sites where All Metal mode isn't functional or practical. That said, I do still make use of All Metal mode from time-to-time based on the site environment I am searching ... and I enjoy using it with a detector model that also shows an easily viewable numeric VDI read-out.

I can use my CoRe, Relic, Racer 2, F-44 and T2+ and get a very clean Target ID when using the All Metal mode, and quite often I will have a 5" coil mounted on the working end. Matter-of-fact, I have the ±5" DD coils always mounted on all of these models, or a 7" Concentric on the Racer 2 and F-44, but with their small coil on a spare lower rod for quick-change if desired. I do have a virtually new F44 in the box I am selling, but just might change my mind and keep a 5" DD mounted on it full-time as well.

I used to use the 5" DD a lot of the time on the Teknetics Omega 8000 starting in 2010, and almost full-time on the Tek. G2. Then I used that same 5" DD on the Fisher Gold Bug, then on a couple of Euro-Tek Pro's, and finally on a few F-19's I had. A really handy coil to have in your arsenal. I have devices that outperform others in dense nail environments and high ferrous trash content Relic Hunting sites, but keep the 5" on the T2+ and at-the-ready for the Racer 2 and F-44 which are my get-serious Coin & Jewelry Hunting units for more urban settings.

Like I mentioned, I mostly hunt in a motion-based Discriminate mode, but I do often make use of an All Metal mode ... as well as a 5" DD coil ... and one reason I like these models in my Detector Team is because they give me an easy-to-see VDI read-out in All Metal. I don't use TID all the time, but, when I want it, it's nice to have it working for me.

Monte

 

[dfmike]

Good to hear from you Monte. It's been awhile.

The only reason I would even consider all metal in trashy areas is to get more depth. The 5" probably goes at least 1 inch deeper on the Tek2 and F75. Although the good targets here are rarely beyond 6 inches because of the ground makeup, the small round coil is slightly disappointing in depth on the F19 and the target sound quickly becomes a whisper at 4 inches or more. All metal would certainly give me an edge when it comes to depth but alas, Fisher chose to put a real time ground balance value as center display on that detector in all metal instead of target ID. There must have been a reason but it eludes me especially since the F19 has such a tight and stable ID at the limit of its depth. For this reason I would consider using all metal with the CoRe but not with the F19 as it is. Nevertheless, I still like the F19 a lot and plan to use it more until the end of the season which I hope will not come before Christmas.

 

[dfmike]

Dfmike, this year we've done nothing but woods hunting and I learned this little trick that helps me move through the high time surface trash found everywhere in the woods. When I get the loud signal my next step is to use my small hand held pinpointer and check what's going on with it before I try anything else, if my pinpointer won't pick up the signal then I know I've got a " decent" target worth more work. Most of the time my pinpointer will pick up the signal and the I just hit the spot with my shovel and out pops trash, saves time for me.

Thanks for the tip. The thing is that in this particular area, signals in the 40's abound. On the F19 that means foil or tin can bits. If I would spend the time to dig them out, I would literally waste hours in a small space and slow down to a crawl. I am talking repeatable signals in the 40's at about every foot or so. I don't know exactly what happened here at one time but it's fascinating. I get all those blaring 40's signals that are not deep (1-2 inches) along with a few older style pull tabs thrown in for good measure (these I dig because they can ID close to a nickel), then I get those pesky rusted bottle caps with a slightly softer sound because they are somewhat deeper and then sometimes in all this junk, I get the whisper and the unmistakable ID of a copper or silver coin. Almost never a recent clad coin (post 1970). I've talked to a few guys who have detected here as well and nobody can figure out what all these beer bottle caps are doing in the woods. And it's not just a section of the woods, they are everywhere. There must have been one hell of a party at one time.

 

[Monte]

.. was limited depth-of-detection, and another was a weaker response from higher-conductive targets. That seemed to be more true with the earlier units but still evident with the F-19 and G2+. I was a Teknetics Dealer for a while and had an original T2, Omega 8000 and G2 as well. I mainly hunt dense iron contaminated places when away from town, and settle for Coin Hunting when I'm stuck in the city. I favor smaller-size to mid-sized coils and I'm not fond of the 11" BiAxial coil. I kept the 5" DD mounted on the T2, most of the time an 8" Concentric or 5" DD on the Omega 8000, and in more open areas the 5X10 DD or 5" DD on the G2.

Typically, the Omega 8000 gave me some of the better in-the-field performance when I was using a 5" DD on all three models, even besting the T2 most of the time, but the G2 trailed when it came to detection depth. At the time, I could only associate their performance based on their operating frequency and the fact that most places I searched here in the US were going to produce copper cents or clad or silver dimes, quarters and occasionally a half or dollar coin, all higher-conductive. The T2 worked at about 13 kHz, the Omega 8000 at 7.8 kHz and the G2 at about 19 kHz.

I did / do use my detectors in All Metal mode at times for certain applications, but most of the time I rely on the motion-based Disc. mode and I run with a high Sensitivity setting and Disc. low enough to accept common iron nails [size=small](when a detector allows that adjustment range)[/size].

The only reason I would even consider all metal in trashy areas is to get more depth.

I do, but rarely, use All Metal mode in trashier sites, and it's especially less than useful if I think I want to get better depth. Depth performance is naturally hampered by nearby or shallower located trash and the only really effective way to get hits on a deeper-keeper in trash it to have a detector that can use a smaller-size coil and still get decent depth. Back about seven or eight years ago I achieved better small-coil performance in trash with the Tek. Omega 8000 w/5" DD or modified White's IDX Pro w/4½' Concentric.

That changed I January of '15 when I put the Nokta FORS CoRe w/'OOR' DD [size=small](4.7X5.2 DD)[/size] to work against these and other models I had at the time, and then again a year later with the FORS Relic w/5" DD. Today in my Regular-Use Detector Outfit I still get the best depth and all-around small-coil performance from the CoRe and Relic, and I have, or have recently had, other units with a 5" DD mounted that falls short, and that includes my T2+.

The 5" probably goes at least 1 inch deeper on the Tek2 and F75.

Maybe. I know it isn't as sickly on depth as the F19 and other 19 kHz models from FTP. By the way, the CoRe that does well operates at 15 kHz and the Relic is 19 kHz like the F19.

Although the good targets here are rarely beyond 6 inches because of the ground makeup, the small round coil is slightly disappointing in depth on the F19 and the target sound quickly becomes a whisper at 4 inches or more.

On the G2, Gold Bug Pro, G2+ and F-19's I was also disappointed in their overall depth performance when compared to ... ummm ... just about anything.

All metal would certainly give me an edge when it comes to depth but alas, Fisher chose to put a real time ground balance value as center display on that detector in all metal instead of target ID. There must have been a reason but it eludes me especially since the F19 has such a tight and stable ID at the limit of its depth.

That was also one design glitch I noted. I don't rely on visual TID all the time, but ....

For this reason I would consider using all metal with the CoRe but not with the F19 as it is.

The Core and Relic are my premier performing units whenever I hunt in dense iron, and they handle well in a mix of ferrous and non-ferrous trash in more modern sites, too.

Nevertheless, I still like the F19 a lot and plan to use it more until the end of the season which I hope will not come before Christmas.

When I still had one of the F-19's on-hand [size=small](aka unsold)[/size] I worked it and the 5" DD against a new Fisher F-44 I had just bought with the 5" DD coil. In tighter target spaces the F-19 did have a little edge on fast-recovery, but in modest to mellower trash environments I had better depth and better general performance from the F-44. I got it more for some of the urban Coin Hunting tasks and not as a serious Relic Hunting tool.

I'm with you in hoping a cold and white winter will hold off for a good while longer so we can get some detecting in. Enjoy all the units you have.

Monte

 

[Mike Hillis]

Monte should have clarified that the Goldbug is primarily designed for gold prospecting and is designed around that specific target at 19 kHz. Many folks enjoyed using it in nails for low conductive relic hunting so 1st Texas added some features to enhance its relic hunting abilities and marketed it as a relic hunter under the F19 and G2, G2+ models. While this series of detectors can be used for high conductive coin hunting, coin hunting is not what it is designed for nor is it promoted as such and if you use it for that particular application (high conductive coin hunting ) well, yeah...it will under perform other models and makes that are designed around that target type.

So...while Monte is once again promoting another mfg's models on the Fisher forum........he is also missing some details.

HH
Mike

 

[dfmike]

Thanks Monte and Mike. I know the F19 was not specifically designed for coin hunting but it has performed very well for me in different applications whether it was designed for them or not. I don't want to start a metal detector comparison in this specific forum but I have used the F44, F5, Omega V6, MX7, CoRe and a few others. The F19 can hold its own against any of these for coin hunting in trashy areas as long as the coins are not too deep where the smaller coils just can't reach them. I can trust the ID more than any detector in this list and that makes up for a lot of shortcomings it might have. Anyway there is no such thing as the perfect detector and that's why I have a few and enjoy using them all.

 

[Monte]

From Use Manual 'A':
While the XXXXXXXXX makes for a highly competent coin-shooting detector, its user interface and features
are not specifically designed for this purpose. As a coin-shooter, you will notice that the XXXXXXXXX exhibits
slightly lower sensitivity to high-conductivity coins, like a U.S. quarter this is a result of its specialized design
to emphasize sensitivity to small, low conductivity metals like gold nuggets.


From User Manual 'B':
While theXXXXXXXXX makes for a highly competent Coinshooting detector, its user interface and features
are not specifically designed for this purpose. As a coin-shooter, you will notice that the XXXXXXXXX exhibits
slightly lower sensitivity to high-conductivity coins, like a U.S. quarter; this is a result of its specialized design
to emphasize sensitivity to smaller, lower conductivity metals like relics and gold nuggets.


Unless I am mistaken, the good folks at FTP did point out that the above two detector models "make for a highly competent coin-shooting detector, its user interface and features are not specifically designed for this purpose." So while not dedicating these two models specifically for gold nugget hunting or for relic hunting, they certainly didn't exclude coin hunting from their usefulness. It was confusing, to me, that they would emphasize this paragraph in their manuals by saying they are "highly competent" and then immediately follow that up with the warning that they have a "slightly lower sensitivity to high-conductivity coins like a US quarter."

The Fisher Gold Bug Pro, with the circuitry also used in the Teknetics G2, went through several revisions before and at the time of its introduction. Reading forum reports back then you could note the complaints about poor detection depth as well as wimpy performance on higher-conductive targets. Engineering finally stated they had done what they were going to do with it and it was what it was because they were moving on with other projects. I used a Gold Bug Pro in some comparisons, but as a Teknetics Dealer at the time I kept a T2, Omega 8000 and G2 in my personal detector outfit, using the Omega 8000 and G2 the most. I only worked the G2 a minor amount with the 5X10 DD, preferring the 5" DD to take advantage of what it could do for me in the trashier sites I was working which were a series of house demolitions in an older neighborhood.

On the Omega 8000 I used the 5X10 DD at times, the round 8" Concentric as a regular-use coil for most urban Coin Hunting, and I'd also work the 5" DD a fair amount in trash or confined spaces. I did a lot of side-by-side comparisons using the 5" DD between the Omega and G2. The G2 was clearly the wimpy performer when it came to signaling on higher conductive coins and other more conductive targets, and fell way short of depth-of-detection in the cleaner areas where depth could be achieved due to reduced good-target masking.

Due to relocating, health, and personal reasons, I sold out everything the end of 2013 and stopped being a dealer, but I certainly didn't give up on this great sport. And, as always, I have a keen interest in new products from any manufacturer and like to give most of them a try just to be certain I have some of the best detectors on the market in my personal Detector outfit. They might be older models, to include out-of-production, to recent offerings to even the "latest-and-greatest" .... as long as they work, work well, and provide me some level of beneficial performance for the variety of sites I enjoy searching.

Five to eight years ago I was using an XLT, modified IDX Pro, Bandido II µMAX and Silver Sabre µMAX because they were favorites of mine and provided a level of satisfaction for me even though all of them were older and/or discontinued. I also used some of the then-current models from other detector makers that were current production, such as an MXT Pro, XL Pro, F75, T2, Omega 8000 G2, and tried several others as well. If something I felt was better came along, I'd likely add it to my Outfit, and if I felt overloaded' I'd let something go. Like many of us, I'd part with something only to realize I missed it and wanted it, or a duplicate, back in my Outfit.

Today, a glance at my den wall or peek on the back seat shows that I still have an XLT, modified IDX Pro, Bandido II µMAX and Silver Sabre µMAX on hand for the very same reasons: They work and work well, are rugged and dependable, and in many applications they will match or better what the competitor's offer even in newer designed packages. They are part of my entire working set of detectors that have proven themselves afield, such as my Nokta CoRe and Relic, Makro Racer 2, XP ORX, newer Teknetics T2+, and even the budget-level Fisher F44. Why have these? Because they also work and work well for their intended applications.

Among the other currently-produced models I have bought and worked afield and then parted with were four .. 4 .. Fisher F19's. Both when first introduced when I bought two of them, and again in the last two years when I had two others. Do they work? Of course they do! Do they work well enough to satisfy me such that I hang onto them or do I feel they have a functional place in my Outfit? Nope, not at all. Why not? For some of the reasons 'dfmike' mentioned as well as what the manufacturer warned about in their manual: Poor depth with the 5" DD (and other coils by comparison) and poor performance on higher-conductive coins/targets.

The F19 is, essentially, just a Gold Bug Pro with some enhancements like Tone Break and Iron Volume control.


To Mike [size=small](the topic poster)[/size], I wish you the best when you work that new-to-you search coil. Like others, I will also follow with interest your reports on the results. Sometimes a detector can have some weaker performance and sometimes it can be a search coil related issue. Perhaps this new coil will provide some benefit for the sites you're hunting, and especially for hitting on the Canadian coins that are an additional challenge [size=small](those made of Nickel or Steel)[/size].

I like the fact the rod-mount is more centrally positioned and wish all manufacturers would make their coils that way for improved balance and handling.

Monte

[size=small]PS: The User Manual A is the Gold Bug Pro and User Manual B is for the F19.[/size]

 

[Rob in (Ca)]

Dirtfishing on Utube has live dig videos with the G2, with the 11 Biaxle coil, finding very deep silver coins.

so The G2 / F19 with the correct coil, can find deep coins.

 

[Mike Hillis]

Bill makes good hunt videos!
HH
Mike

 

[dfmike]

Bill makes good hunt videos!
HH
Mike

I wish he would make more. He's been quiet lately.

To Rob: He also made a lot of videos with the F19 which he seemed to really like at the time. He certainly rated it higher than other known coin shooters. Originally he was the one that convinced me to try an F19. Then the videos of Hunter GT and his wife doing coin shootouts at parks and his wife winning almost all the time with her F19 vs the T2 pushed me over the edge.

 

[jmaclen]

I, similar to Monte am on my 3rd F19/G2+. I seem to have finally got one of the "hot" ones that Keith Southern has talked about in his reviews of the F19/G2+. It was very recently manufactured. It works well with the 10X5, 5" and my favorite, the Detech Ultimate coil. It will detect targets at the depth of the width of these coils easily. I have detectors that can go deeper, separate better and are faster but the F19/G2+ form factor and outstanding All Metal mode make it an excellent choice for some of my detecting needs. It makes a great relic and prospecting detector for loaning out to inexperienced friends and family too. In disc mode, it has rock solid target ID on good quality targets down to 6" or so which is better than any other detector I own or have used except for the Equinox in my high mineralization hunting areas. Like the manual says, it is a competent coin and jewelry detector.

Jeff