F2 and the 11" DD performance

[dbax]

Has anyone used or owned a Fisher F2 with the 11"DD coil? I put a NEL sharpshooter 5.5x9.5 DD on my F2 and I'm not too impressed, so I am wondering about the 11" DD that is available for the F2/F4 -- is it just a waste of money? Anyone with any information on this?

 

[dbax]

I might add that I also have a NEL Sharpshooter for my F70 and love it. The depth is really good and signals sharp and pinpointing precise. The F2 Sharpshooter is a mixed bag, so far. I loaned it out to a hunt buddy and after about an hour of using it he wanted to put the 10" round stock coil back on it. A little disappointed but I am going to mess with it some more and see what the problem might be. Still wondering about the 11" DD for this machine, or, is it a waste of time. I love the 11" DD on my F70 -- maybe I am just expecting too much out of the F2 by comparing??

 

[yowow#1]

I have used a 11" DD on a F4, and it ain't super deep but when you learn it, it is as accurate in TID as any machine. I haven't used this set up in a long time but when i did i could tell a nickel from a pull tab all day long. Some will say 'well that is just knowing your machine, and i agree, but, some machines just seem to have something you can't put your finger on? If you're not looking for DEEP, than the F4 or in your case F2 with the DD is great, imo. If you are looking for DEEP than i would say maybe try another machine. again jmo. GL

 

[dbax]

Thanks yowow that is just the kind of info I was after. It seems to me that it is the machine that makes the coil, not the coil that makes the machine. The F2 is a good machine and I have found a lot of stuff but nothing like what I am uncovering with the F70, but REVIER found a real use for it, especially with the 4" coil in searching special areas. Guess I was hoping the coil would somehow make this F2 more powerful than it really is. I think it is operating in the 8.5 HZ zone, while the F70 is above 13 HZ in all of its 7 settings -- hey, maybe some kind of buster could be wired into the F2/F4? No, I am joking -- I think You are right, common sense tells me this too, good money on top of bad -- new machine would be the better investment. Besides this is a loaner, my wife's machine

 

[REVIER]

Thanks yowow that is just the kind of info I was after. It seems to me that it is the machine that makes the coil, not the coil that makes the machine. The F2 is a good machine and I have found a lot of stuff but nothing like what I am uncovering with the F70, but REVIER found a real use for it, especially with the 4" coil in searching special areas. Guess I was hoping the coil would somehow make this F2 more powerful than it really is. I think it is operating in the 8.5 HZ zone, while the F70 is above 13 HZ in all of its 7 settings -- hey, maybe some kind of buster could be wired into the F2/F4? No, I am joking -- I think You are right, common sense tells me this too, good money on top of bad -- new machine would be the better investment. Besides this is a loaner, my wife's machine

Since you mentioned me I will give you my thoughts on this one.
I have read that F2 owners that have this one are split...some love it some not so much.
More seem like it than the amount that are not impressed.
I never got one for my F2 for a few reasons.

One, I already had a large one for my Vaquero so buying one for my F2 seemed a bit redundant, but I loved using that big coil in wide open areas where I wanted to cover a lot of ground.
The wider scanning field is an advantage in that situation because you don't have to overlap so much and I had some pretty good confidence that it was not missing much at those large open sites so the "what ifs" didn't bother me so much.
I very well could have missed some targets but it didn't seem that way in my mind so that worked for me.
I did use that Vaq and coil set up here in Kansas at a park in one of those wide open areas one day and at the end of a hunt with not much to show for the last half hour I was literally running around one of these open areas swinging the coil so fast you would have laughed because I looked like a hockey play moving down the ice on a power play looking for one last "Hail Mary" good target.
As funny as it looked this actually worked and I did get a quick signal, stopped and went back to examine it further and found a 14k nice gold ring on that one.
There is a possibility I might have found it using that detector or others including the F2 and concentric coils, but to this day I am convinced that it was the wide scanning field of that coil along with the fast speed of the Tesoro, which the F2 is close to equal in that area, that actually enabled me to acquire and even notice that signal as fast as I was moving that day.

In the area of mineralization I have always read that the DD coils handle it better and I have read many posts from hunters in areas of mineralized soil that have found this to be true with 1-2" or more in depth achievable over concentrics...including the 10" coil for the F2.
If I did get one for use on my F2 when I lived in Birmingham I really don't believe that would have been the result for me because in that area we not only had super heavy mineralization but also a severe problem with iron and that limited depth on all detectors and coils so virtually every detector was pretty much on an even playing field in the worst of that stuff.
None of us got much depth no matter what we swung and no matter what brand or coil.
I believe only a PI unit would have made any headway in that devil dirt and I seriously considered getting one but then I moved to extremely great soil in Kansas so it became a none issue.
That is actually why I got the 10X12 DD coil for the Vaq by the way, to get better depth, but in my case I don't believe it helped at all and I don't think getting a DD coil for the F2 would have either.

Here in my much better soil concentrics can go pretty deep so before I got my F70 and was still using the F2 the most I did get curious and bough a 10" concentric to see if it actually would go deeper than the 8", even though I still used the sniper coil almost exclusively due to my targeting densely packed trash areas the most.
I have read that the DD's are very good in trash...the longer thinner scanning field can snake through trash pretty well, but I still believe that sniper coils are better for doing this and you can isolate all signals better and get better target info due to the fact there is less possibility of having more than one target under that coil at the same time.
Turns out on the few times I did use it the 10" concentric did go deeper than my 8", I got better clearer signals on targets 5" and more, too, and even though you have to overlap more than when using the DD I think for like half the money of that DD coil the 10" is a great value and found me a couple of really great things even though I have limited time using it.
Less area on the scanning field but in good soil the 10" concentric might actually go a bit deeper than the DD coil, I have read, and this might actually be true but I never compared both types of coils on the F2 in any kind of soil so I can't say for sure.
Another plus is that the 10" coil, along with the sniper, for me seemed to have a little less problems and issues with heavy EMI than the 8" coil does.
None are perfectly quiet, especially when you hunt like I do on full sense most of the time, but in my experience the 8" standard coil that is supplied with the F2 is the worst out of all of them when it comes to noise and EMI problems.

Another reason I usually preferred to use concentrics over DD's is that bottle cap problem inherent on most brands using these coils.
DD's are a little less sharp in discrimination so those high tone bottle caps seem to mimic dimes and quarters pretty good, very, very good as a matter of fact in their tones and behavior, or at least they did using my Vaq and a DD coil.
This was a real drag for me when I was in older areas where a ton of these things were everywhere.

Now that I use the F70 and have had some experience using both concentrics and DD coils I have found this is not such a problem when using units with screens.
The bulk of these problem targets do come in at different numbers on the screen than good targets like dimes and quarters so you can usually tell, plus you can use a technique called "rimming" to figure these out better, also.
By running the edge of the coil, including and especially the DD coil, over these caps and not the center of the coil these things seem to drop from high tones and numbers down to the iron levels and low numbers most of the time.
This actually works using the Vaquero too, but you have to manipulate the knob back down to iron to check on these and that takes longer and still a drag for impatient ol' me so using the Vaq and DD coil still not my favorite way to hunt trashy parks with a lot of these things...using the F70 and DD coils seems to be much easier and less fatiguing physically and mentally.
I assume this would probably work using the F2 and a DD coil, but again, I have never had any experience using that set up.

All in all in my experience and considering the way I hunt and the areas that I hunt the 10" concentric made more sense as a coil upgrade on my F2 for more depth and the much lower price over the DD just clinched it.
As in all cases since you don't live where I do, hunt the way I do or maybe not even the same type of sites your mileage may very.

Honestly, I am on a new journey with the F70 now, I have 3 coils and that fine machine to play with and learn, and as much as I love that F2 I don't see myself using it all that much anymore so spending any more money on it, especially over $100 for a DD coil, would again seem redundant and silly.
Since you already have the F70 and the 11" DD coil, and considering with all that extra power a whole different animal compared to the F2 and a DD coil, I would think you would be in a similar position.

 

[mudpuppy]

I'll jump in here too...I liked what yowow#1 wrote, and that has been my experience with the 11"DD on the 70 as well...a guy can tell the diff between a tab and a nickle, all day long! and with a bottlecap between a Q too...unless its a flattened and rusty bottlecap, and a guy really wants it to be a Q bad! So, a fellow can go out and dig nothing but coins if he so chooses, and a lot of them in a short time..

Now I dont know if its because I've got 1000's of hours on the 11, or if its those light settings I run? REVIER brought up an interesting point like usual, regarding the search pattern of the DD signal being a long rectangular shape...it also appears to have a tapering edge on it too, like an axe blade, depending upon the settings, a guy can raise that coil over a target thats in the trash and lock onto it, because the signal tapers?
All this said, I have not tried any other coils at all, I put the 10" on the 70 for half a day, took it off and sold it...so my experience with what coil may be "better" is non-existant.

I have found that running too hot in the trash is no good, too many signals getting picked up and competing with each other. If I were to get a coil, I'd try that 5" since so many here have done very well with it in the trash. Especially at the edges of parking lots where the snow gets pushed and its just loaded with good targets and plenty of bad ones..
I use that edge of the coil trick too! and I hunt tight to metal poles listening for some sort of interruption in the field that is different than the normal overload..I dont hunt deep, but I'm sure it would work just fine by hottening up the settings a little like I do on the beach..
Mud.

 

[Mike Hillis]

I bought a F2 when they first came out and outfitted it with a 11" DD coil from a F4. It was a quarter rake. Never seen that amount of quarters come up with any other detector/coil combo. I have often thought of getting another one just for that one purpose.

I can't tell you anything about how much it might improve your depth potential in the ground. My ground is too hot for depth reports. Its why you never see me make them.

The 11" coil was worth the money in my opinion.

HH
Mike

 

[BH505Man]

Not so sure how it works on the F2, but on my Bounty Hunter Pioneer 505, the 11"DD does go deeper. When I put it on my detector, it was like I got a new metal detector.

 

[dbax]

BH505man thanks for you input -- I sprung for a 5.5x9.5 DD sharpshooter and was not pleased with it at all -- the deepest I could get with it in an air test was 3" on a dime, my F70 with the Sharpshooter is good, does not match the 11" DD in depth, and inch or two less and it separates the targets out great in those trashy areas and you can poke it in and around some pretty tight areas. It has proven to be a good bush gun. I know, why another Sharpshooter when the one for my F70 works so well? Well, the short of it is that I am married and the little woman does not mind taking the F2 as a hand me down but If I get a new coil, well, so does she -- if you get what I mean . She did not like it at all, so it is boxed up and headed back for a refund, less shipping. Now, I am looking at the 11"DD cause mine works so well she wants one too, but not if it will not out perform the 10" stock coil. As a matter of fact, that 10" coil for the F2 has proven itself and after my little experiment with the F2 Sharpshooter I have a new found respect for that coil. It was reading that same dime at 7":, nearly 4" better than the Sharpshooter -- turned out not to be a good match, at least for me -- I mean for the little woman. So, redundant, yes but I will not let her use my F70, its the only edge I have Thanks guys for all the good input -- Peace, Dan

 

[whitewill_1]

You want to really see the speed of the F2? Put that DD coil on it. If you want to get more depth from it, don't be too picky about what you dig. I found that deeper targets on the F2 tend to give bouncy numbers. Not jumping all over the spectrum like a piece of foil, but bouncy enough to look and sound junky. The 11"DD coil definitely makes a difference, but if you already have a higher end detector with the same coil why throw money at the lesser machine? That coil costs almost as much as the detector. To anyone reading this and you only have the F2 and want to add performance I would recommend getting the DD coil. Slow down your sweep and look for those slightly iffy hits. It's a learning experience for sure.

 

[IBdiggin]

Got the perfect solution to your situation dbax. Sell the F2 and all it's accessories. Take that money and the extra you would have spent on additional coil searches and shop for the very best deal you could get on another F70 with a 10" elliptical coil for your better half. When you hunt together give her first choice of what setup she wants to use. You can compare performance without having to change coils.. Look at it this way, if she beats you with her finds now and then, it might not be such a bad thing if you know what I mean.---------------------------------------------------------------------------EVERYBODY WINS!!!
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[dbax]

Whitwill thanks for your comment. I know, same coil on both machines seems redundant but the F2 is my wife's machine --

IBdiggin pretty good solution, but I am not going to pass it along to the little woman Her enthusiasm in the hobby is like her enthusiasm in shinning my shoes -- that is why I quit wearing leather shoes. I would still like to see some testing along side the 10" stock Fisher coil -- anyone, how about some figures whitwill, maybe some simple air-testing? Thanks, Dan

 

[whitewill_1]

Whitwill thanks for your comment. I know, same coil on both machines seems redundant but the F2 is my wife's machine --

IBdiggin pretty good solution, but I am not going to pass it along to the little woman Her enthusiasm in the hobby is like her enthusiasm in shinning my shoes -- that is why I quit wearing leather shoes. I would still like to see some testing along side the 10" stock Fisher coil -- anyone, how about some figures whitwill, maybe some simple air-testing? Thanks, Dan

I haven't used the F2 in a while(I got a T2), but I did do air test comparisons between the 8"and 11" DD coils when I got the 11"DD. I found the air depth went up about 2" with the big coil. That isn't the biggest advantage of using a DD coil though. It's better for target seperation and mineralized ground. I believe it sees coins on edge better too. The drawback to the DD coil is pinpointing. The F2 is precise pinpointing with the round coil, but a little harder with the 11"DD. I found an X pinpoint method to work best. One more thing. The F2 looks way more awesome with the DD coil on it.

 

[dbax]

Thanks Whitewill, -- you are saying the 11D was about 2" deeper on targets than the 8" stock coil, right? That is about the same depth, then, for the 10" stock concentric coil. It surprised me that the pinpointing for the 11" elliptic coil is worse than the round or concentric stock coil. One of the strong suits of the 11" DD is supposed to be its pinpointing ability. Thanks for the info it has helped me to make up my wife's mind. The 10" stock is good enough and with a Garrett handheld pin pointer should be a good combination for the little lady. I won't mention you comment about how pretty the 11"DD makes the F2 look. If I mentioned that it might cost me more money. Thanks for the info