Hi everyone! I recently purchased a Teknetics Patriot (F70) that comes with the 11" DD coil. Ok, after air testing it indoors I could get about 11 inches with a clad quarter, but then today I buried this quarter 8 inches deep, and my detector can't see it, not at the defaults settings, not even maxing sense out, so I wanted to ask you if this can be considered normal, or there could be something wrong with my machine. I did the ground grab correctly, I live in Nebraska and I am not sure but don't believe my soil is mineralized, think it is rather soft. Thanks in advance for your advices/comments.
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F70 (Patriot) Depth test...failed?
- Thread starter amustel
- Start date
Snap On Man
Member
I have only been metal detecting for about 3 years so correct me if I am wrong. All the metal detecting sites I have been on I read a lot about air tests. To me running a coin in front of the coil tells me my detector is sending a signal and receiving it. Telling me I have a properly operating detector. Putting the coil to the ground is a different story. That's a much different environment. I don't see how a air test is any indication of the depth you think you might get in the field.
MarkCZ
Well-known member
Okay, there is a WARNING with this post! Fresh buried coins more than 5" (inches) or so will sometime COMPLETELY DISAPPEAR in a few days
after you've planted them, I've got several 7" nickels that I buried a couple of years ago and they are the same as GONE!
Now, air test are actually VERY good if they are thought about correctly, now keep in mind this doesn't include HALO of certain types of metals!!!
Air is the ONLY neutral media, that is to say that there isn't anything about air to block the detectors signal to target response, that means that excluding HALO
of Iron targets that's the MAX depth you can get (air test), there isn't anything about DIRT that increases the signal to target response!!!!.
That said, NO you can't expect to get 11" air test on a coin, then plant it in the ground and get the same results, the detector is designed to combat the effects of the ground,
but it can't completely do away with it. So, earth gets in the way of a detector much like fog gets in the way of being able to see to drive a car and air don't
I've personally had BAD RESULTS with planted coins, except for one 1800's Large cent that I buried @ 8" five or six years ago, the last time I checked (a year ago) I could still
hit it.
My big brother planted a couple of coins @7" and they were fine for a few days, then POOF! the detector stopped responding to them.
Your 11" air test actually could tell you more about the depth of your detector than your deep planted coin garden. But! when coins actually get 8" or deeper in the DIRT! (not counting the grass)
they become a real challenge to get to, I've pulled a couple @ maybe 9" with my F70 but I've never to yet to dig one @ 11" in the DIRT!!
The only thing you might try is a different way of planting the coin. Dig it back up and at the bottom of the hole push it into the side of the hole (keeping it flat) then fill the hole back in.
This might leave the ground matrix above the coin undisturbed enough to work as a better test, and I did say MIGHT?????
Now back to the air test for a minute. I had come to know that to get to the fresh drops of the early days of our city park I needed a detector to actually be able to search @ at around the 7" to 8" depth range.
Well, I bought, sold, and traded detectors over the years and several I had would actually do that, but I had a couple of X Brand detectors that wouldn't and when I air tested them they wouldn't go past 7" of air!
to that dirt is always a MINUS of air test (excluding Iron Halo) and I had to move those detector along.
Now, try and replant that quarter and see what results you get from that.
Then go back to your air test and try some other stuff, like SL mode @ minus 1 threshold and the sensitivity as high as you can get it and the detector not false.
Also, if your air testing indoors often times household interference can force you to lower the detector settings more than you might need to outdoors.
In these test are you using Headphones?
Also, the test over the planted coin how fast are you sweeping the coil over the target? you don't have to mow the grass with the F70 but it does like a little coil sweep speed.
Another thing to do for your garden test, plant the coin in a clean spot of ground, that means going over the area in all metal or at lest near Zero discrimination. Also, mark you another clean spot of
ground to properly ground balance the detector on.
And last but not lest, when you do your air test keep in mind that the max depth STOPS at the point the audio response drops off to a point that you would call it a No Dig Signal! you don't count a
little chirp, or a crackle that if you were hunting you would ignore, max air test depth is reached when a dig report drops to No DIG!
Again here is my F70 air test results chart, and I know that in WV soil I can get coins down to 8" to 9" in the dirt! Your dirt and my dirt could be completely different, but air is a universal media!!!!
Notice that there isn't any 11" air test results in my test!!!!
The red is the point where the detector became unstable, and they test were done indoors!
look at the SL= in the minus 1 threshold row, I got 10", but I didn't try it everywhere, SL at a 85 Gain may make 11" or more?
MarkC
after you've planted them, I've got several 7" nickels that I buried a couple of years ago and they are the same as GONE!
Now, air test are actually VERY good if they are thought about correctly, now keep in mind this doesn't include HALO of certain types of metals!!!
Air is the ONLY neutral media, that is to say that there isn't anything about air to block the detectors signal to target response, that means that excluding HALO
of Iron targets that's the MAX depth you can get (air test), there isn't anything about DIRT that increases the signal to target response!!!!.
That said, NO you can't expect to get 11" air test on a coin, then plant it in the ground and get the same results, the detector is designed to combat the effects of the ground,
but it can't completely do away with it. So, earth gets in the way of a detector much like fog gets in the way of being able to see to drive a car and air don't
I've personally had BAD RESULTS with planted coins, except for one 1800's Large cent that I buried @ 8" five or six years ago, the last time I checked (a year ago) I could still
hit it.
My big brother planted a couple of coins @7" and they were fine for a few days, then POOF! the detector stopped responding to them.
Your 11" air test actually could tell you more about the depth of your detector than your deep planted coin garden. But! when coins actually get 8" or deeper in the DIRT! (not counting the grass)
they become a real challenge to get to, I've pulled a couple @ maybe 9" with my F70 but I've never to yet to dig one @ 11" in the DIRT!!
The only thing you might try is a different way of planting the coin. Dig it back up and at the bottom of the hole push it into the side of the hole (keeping it flat) then fill the hole back in.
This might leave the ground matrix above the coin undisturbed enough to work as a better test, and I did say MIGHT?????
Now back to the air test for a minute. I had come to know that to get to the fresh drops of the early days of our city park I needed a detector to actually be able to search @ at around the 7" to 8" depth range.
Well, I bought, sold, and traded detectors over the years and several I had would actually do that, but I had a couple of X Brand detectors that wouldn't and when I air tested them they wouldn't go past 7" of air!
to that dirt is always a MINUS of air test (excluding Iron Halo) and I had to move those detector along.
Now, try and replant that quarter and see what results you get from that.
Then go back to your air test and try some other stuff, like SL mode @ minus 1 threshold and the sensitivity as high as you can get it and the detector not false.
Also, if your air testing indoors often times household interference can force you to lower the detector settings more than you might need to outdoors.
In these test are you using Headphones?
Also, the test over the planted coin how fast are you sweeping the coil over the target? you don't have to mow the grass with the F70 but it does like a little coil sweep speed.
Another thing to do for your garden test, plant the coin in a clean spot of ground, that means going over the area in all metal or at lest near Zero discrimination. Also, mark you another clean spot of
ground to properly ground balance the detector on.
And last but not lest, when you do your air test keep in mind that the max depth STOPS at the point the audio response drops off to a point that you would call it a No Dig Signal! you don't count a
little chirp, or a crackle that if you were hunting you would ignore, max air test depth is reached when a dig report drops to No DIG!
Again here is my F70 air test results chart, and I know that in WV soil I can get coins down to 8" to 9" in the dirt! Your dirt and my dirt could be completely different, but air is a universal media!!!!
Notice that there isn't any 11" air test results in my test!!!!
The red is the point where the detector became unstable, and they test were done indoors!
look at the SL= in the minus 1 threshold row, I got 10", but I didn't try it everywhere, SL at a 85 Gain may make 11" or more?
MarkC
Thank you for your suggestions MarkC; I will try all of them, specially the one about pushing the coin to one side so it gets buried in undisturbed soil.
I see how wrong I was. When I got complete silence on my planted quarter, not even a chirp, I was convinced that something was wrong. And yes, it was...me lol!
I see how wrong I was. When I got complete silence on my planted quarter, not even a chirp, I was convinced that something was wrong. And yes, it was...me lol!
W
woody
Guest
Excellent info!
MarkCZ
Well-known member
amustel said:
There is a real possibility that in MANY cases your not going to be able to set the threshold up past ZERO meaning make it to the positive numbers
due to EMI. When that happens and your searching for deep targets don't forget to try the SL mode (speed).
Now, that being said if you keep the F70 long enough and become seasoned enough with it you will be able to operate it more into what is called the "Noise"
and what that means is the electronics chatter, this happens when you pass move audio threshold setting into any positive number range, so positive threshold actually means
your entering into the 'Range Of Detector Noise'
In the very early days of detectos they actually had a operation threshold TONE that you were supposed to dial up to just barely audible. Well, most of the more modern
detectors do not have such a tone, but they still have or use the term "Threshold" in modern terms used on the silent search detectors (like ours) the term "Threshold" or setting it into the
plus numbers means that your running a completely triggered audio circuit and in doing so it doesn't take a target response to GATE an audio report to the operator, the audio
amp is ON (triggered) and so you hear all the processing noise, all the time. Many VERY seasoned detectorist run their detectors into the noise, but for most users the noise just gets mixed in with target
responses and just adds to the confusion of the operator. It takes a long time for most to know and automatically sort out the added detector noisy from the weak or faint target responses.
Mark
WV62
Well-known member
Just a couple of items brother MarkCZ's big brother, at one time I was testing a lot of different coins and over time I realized if I can hit a dime I can hit any larger coin. So I only use dimes for test targets.
amuster, for sure there is nothing wrong with your detector, that 11" air test on a quarter is a really good number.
Good luck,
Ron in WV
amuster, for sure there is nothing wrong with your detector, that 11" air test on a quarter is a really good number.
Good luck,
Ron in WV