For folks who like using full tones

[squirrel1]

I enjoy running my Deus units in full tones while hunting,,especially relic hunting.
But is full tones necessarily the best to run in all cases???
Can a nonferrous target be missed,,,even a worthy coin???

The answer to the second question above,,,YES.

Deus users I recommend you do the following experiment and similar experiements for understanding.

Take a look at the pic below.
The ruler is in pic to show nail size.
Two nails are pictured,,,but only one was used at a time,,,in the position associated with IH penny.

Deus users using full tones (O or low disc) sweeping down the barrel of this nail,,(I used 9" coil btw),,or even turning 90 degrees and sweeping,,do you think you would dig the coin???


Would I??

IMO I even with as much Deus experience I have,,,,I would give a less than 40 percent chance of digging.

What are the symptoms here with this coin and nail configuration??
You won't get much tone nuance,,little if any to identify,,,,you do get elongated low roar(so near iron grunt) it ain't funny.
Meter reading will amp to and try to read in the mid20s to 30s,,,but the meter reading don't match the sound provided in the least.

Btw I have seen some relic iron (solo buried) do the very same thing here.

So what to do,,,to maybe not miss a find maybe laying in this configuration in an old site???

IMO,,,users would be serving themselves here well,,,if they have an adjacent program setup,,using regular 2 tone or 3 tones setup,,with disc at level between 6-7,,,I used 7 when testing coin with bigger nail,,,nail procided no tone,,dead quiet,,,,but put the coins,,,IH,,zincoln,,or clad dime as shown in pic,,and a good tone to stop you in your tracks.
When in the field using full tones,,you hear a longer signal,,dull sounding,,meter reading in 20s or 30s,,toggle to your adjacent 2 or 3 tone program and sweep and listen.

 

[HuntinDog]

Very interesting..
I'll be out there giving this a try for sure.
I hate hunting in a target rich location and missing a good find.
Thank you Squirrel1

 

[shoover]

You definitely wouldn't even know that dime is their with full tones. Full tones works on a floating scale. You need tone breaks to hear the dime. With full tones you would get a perfect deep iron signal or a blended tone of the two targets.

 

[martygene]

wow Squirrel... very nice. sure makes you wonder sometimes. i guess if i hit a site once with full tones i'll do next with a 3 tone set up. thanks.

 

[Lodge Scent]

I've come to the same conclusion Squirrel. I have switched from using Full Tones, 0 Discrim to now using 2 or 3 tones with Disc between 7-10 and I'm much happier with the results when hunting in the iron patches.

 

[martygene]

squirrel... for an example what tone breaks do you use and how many breaks?
thanks

 

[squirrel1]

:Here's my recommendation

After giving this here some serious thought I have reached the following conclusion.

It is clear to me,,,some targets will be gotten with full tones.
Some targets can be isolated using approx 2.5 disc level when using full tones,,and a user can better study them as suspect.
Some targets will likely not be found using either of the above,,,but actually by using a more conventional disc setting of 5.9-7 levels.

So what do I recommend???

Ideally a person should hunt a site,,,using all 3 methods above,,,but maybe this is not practical from a time standpoint for maybe finds (numbers) discovered.

Here is what I think will be the best (time efficient) way to cope.

Hunt a site using full tones 0 disc real well.

Then hunt site using full tones with approx 2.5 disc setting,,,but any area that gives a lot of tone here using approx 2.5 disc,,,,these areas after studied using this disc setting(s),,, if a person while over these suspect areas,,,would have an adjacent program set up in Deus,,,with the only change being having conventional disc applied,,a person could leave tone selection in full tones,,or change to more conventional tone settings as 2 tone,,3 tone. Remember ID of targets with tone provided here ID likely to be NO GOOD,,yet a very good find be a nesting. I do recommend these areas be at least swung over - giving at least a 4 way sweep.

Going this route,,,a Deus user is letting their detector by way of using the lower 2.5 disc,,,be their bird dog so to speak.

Smaller nails pieces and iron,,,these are the culprits that will least likely cause a nesting nonferrous to be harder to detect using full tones.

This running lower disc here,,,will sniff out these bigger pieces of iron,,,and we as users then can attack these spots with (raised disc settings).

Cheers.

 

[squirrel1]

Folks using Deus in carpet of nails and iron,,,more finds detected per coil swing..vs using full tones and lower disc like 0 or 2.5-3.0.

More data here,,,based on some real finds found.

Hunted a site today,,,have only found very few finds here period. Hunted quite a few times using Deus with 9 and 11" coils,,CTX with stock and 6" coils.

All of my previous Deus hunts done using full tones and 0 disc,,,and using disc level 2 on 9" coil,,and disc level 3.0 using 11" coil.

This site has always been dissapointing to me.

So today,,I thought I would give it another go.

This site when bobbing 9" coil reads one dot shy of half way on mineralization meter.

Hunt today was using 9" coil,,,with the following settings,,and the only setting changed while hunting was disc.

Full tones with disc levels at 6.0,, 2.5,, and 0.

18 kHz,,reactivity 3 silencer -1,, audio report 5,, ws4 headphones used.
Tx power 2.
Pumping ground balance done,,and I run at ground setting,,no gb manipualtion.
All hunting was done using disc level 6,, but after suspect target was found all targets were cross checked using disc levels 2.5 and 0.

I cay say with nearly 100 percent certainty,,,anyone who has used Deus and has hunted old sites littered with iron and nails using full tones and low(er) disc ,and their goal was to dig all nonferrous targets,,,they have in fact likely left nonferrous targets in the ground.

Today was very eye opening,,,and you know what they say,,,,"practice what you preach",,, based on the opening post in this thread.

So why did I miss the targets in the pic???

To describe the pic some.

The 2 things in the upper left,,,I got fooled.

The nails in the lower left,,just sample of what was dug along with the nonferrous finds. Should say the 2 buttons do contain some ferrous.
The rest grouped with them,,all nonferrous,,checked with magnet.

Now I'm posting this to share,,,folks can use their Deus units anyway they want to,,and my goal here is definitely not to insult any Deus user period.

So what about these targets,,,I sure didn't find them on my previous hunts.
Did I miss them???

Yes and no.

I need to explain here,,,all the nonferrous targets and the 2 buttons dug today,,,only one of them sounded better using full tones and either 0 or 2.5 disc.

Now some of the finds did produce ample tone signature to dig using full tones and 2.5 disc and 0 disc.

A few did not.

But again why did I miss them to start with on all my previous hunts??
Did I swing a coil over??
I did,,I in fact know I did,,there is a landmark,,and I Was familiar with where I had hunted in the past,,,and actually where I concentrated most of my efforts.

Deus is a fantastic devil, hunting in nail pits.
Whomever engineered this monster,,,they deserve a cigar!!!

Why do I say this???

There is one very significant difference when a person chooses to run low(er) disc vs more traditional disc settings.

So what is the disadvantage to running full tones using low(er)???
The Deus when hunting in carpet of nails gives you no or little information as far as coil placement.
Granted a person with extreme minute coil progression might alleviate some of this disadvantage,,but their is also a coil sweep speed disadvantage too.

So what happens when you use Deus in more traditional disc setting???
The Deus will in this configuration,,,,become a real BIRD DOG.
What do I mean by this.
When the detector's disc is broken by a nonferrous target scenario it will give a tone,,with a whole lot more coil position location forgiveness and coil sweep speed forgiveness.

So when the detectors disc is broken by a target,,,user can many times start trying to find out by altering coil position where the target is,,,and when they find this place (spot).,, with very controlled coil movement and position,,the Deus will give the needed audio to make a dig decision.

These same target using full tones,,with 0 or 2.5 disc,,,.Deus coil position has to be more exact to get a stop and investigate signal. So in an iron pit,,you would be hearing worse tone,,or low grunts,,if coil is out of position moreso vs disc level 6 for example. (You don't get an investigate signal)

Today,,I didn't even get out of a 4" by 9.5 ft square. Some finds found less than a foot apart,,actually 4 were found in a less then 3ft square area.

These targets were a bear to recover,,,I intentionally dug smaller diameter holes,,and every single target,,most had multiple nails in the hole,,and most of the nails actually recovered before target,,,nails were shallower than good targets,,in all cases.

Sometimes,,I Would almost get bluffed with finding the nails,,but I know what I heard to begin with,,,and stayed with trying to locate nonferrous target.

The fence steeple and square nail,,I think I got fooled by them,,,but my overall percentages of holes dug with a good target was very high. I was impressed by this.

Now,,the Deus does offer it seems some superior unmasking,,,even with a9" coil,, I have also had some good luck with 11" coil.

I think the actual coil size diameters and shape on Deus is a driving factor for a lot of its unmasking abilities.

The big question I guess,is what will the newer almost release coils offer,,or how will they compare to existing coils when it comes to separation and unmasking.

The current coils,,are in my book deadly performing.

 

[LTimedigger]

A few weeks ago, I hunted a fairly small patch at an old antebellum town site that was seeded with iron. I pulled four old buttons and 2 bullets. using the 1 disc full tones setting. Now I want to go back and bump up the disc. I've maintained that the amount of disc to use in iron infested sites is the most controversial topic among Deus users. Both sides the less vs the more seem to have some merit and all of the "guru" seem to lean one way or the other. May need to indeed try both and see what we either like better or performs better.

 

[Lodge Scent]

Good write up Squirrel. Multitones and some Disc versus Full Tones and no Disc......what ever floats your boat. The Deus allows you to use several different approaches to find the goodies in the iron beds. I've come to prefer the Multitones and some Disc approach for the reasons you give. Others swear by Full Tones.

Another reason I like to use some Disc (6 to 10) is that I can then set the Iron volume to where I like it. When you run with a Disc of 2 or less, you lose that Iron volume function.

 

[squirrel1]

Well,
I truly beleive in the long run,,more finds will be missed using 0 or real low disc using full tones.

Today,,,I tried to stay objective while I listened ,,,and even would pretend to swing up to the find(knowing where suspect target was),, I was convinced quickly after 3 finds were made.

Person using approx 6 level disc,,don't really have to pay as close attention,,just wait for the disc to be broken,,then try to hone the coil and find where on the ground is causing the disc breakage.

Full tones,,,a person has to be on their toes in carpets of nails moreso.
Easy to miss a target,,,.Deus audio is jammed morse so I think too.

 

[Metal Magnet]

This is extremely helpful! Thanks so much for sharing. I have been very disappointed at a few high iron spots - like crazy high - with full tones zero disc. I am going to go back and try what you are suggesting here. Will report back. Thanks again!

 

[Metal Magnet]

Went back to a place that is super stingy. I didn't get anything out of the heaviest iron area - but this area is also littered with tons of modern junk too. I did, however, pull more clad out of other areas. I'm going to go back to some areas that are iron infested, with less modern trash to see how I fare. Will let you know.

When are you deciding to dig? Are you doing it on anything repeatable? I dug anything that sounded decent, so I could learn.

 

[squirrel1]

Folks need to remember this thread deals with version 3.2.
Version 4.0 is different,,,I can say,,based on my use..

 

[Metal Magnet]

lol, i just upgraded. so, are you saying that 4.0 is better at dealing with the issue of full tones. I just installed it. thanks.

 

[squirrel1]

lol, i just upgraded. so, are you saying that 4.0 is better at dealing with the issue of full tones. I just installed it. thanks.

Not exactly.

You run disc using full tones like you did 3.2 version,,,get ready to dig nails and iron.
Try setting disc to -2.5 in full tones p.
You'll find this sounds like version 3.2 when over nails and iron,,,,,,,, 4.0 is hotter than a firecracker on lower conductor ,,I know this much.

 

[Metal Magnet]

okay, as always, i appreciate your insights!