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For those of you that still think all metal is not important on the new ETrac: check out this video

D

digitrich

New member
Wait till you put your new ETrac in really thick iron and it nulls completely out for 30 seconds or so. Just like every Explorer ever made...the less discrimination, the better. All those bells, whistles and programs people are bragging about only work in a perpendicular, left to right fashion, when you turn 90 degrees and re-swing, many times it becomes the same old, nulling Explorer. The average DD coil has a hot line down the middle which is approximately the width of a 2x4 at 1 1/2 inches about the same length of the coil, 14 inches on the 10x14, 12 inches on the Sun Ray 12, etc. I believe the Pro 11 gives such sharp signals and separation even on the SE because ML some how figured out how to make the width of the coil pattern skinnier to maybe 1 - 1.25 inches. That would explain allot of it's advantages it gave the SE's, a narrower, just as deep band of detection. BUT the problem remains that when there is two or more targets under the 11" coil hot line at the same time in a line parallel to the coils hot line, the machine will null, yet in all metal allot of times it gives something more than just an iron tone leading one to further investigate what otherwise one wouldn't have any clue existed in their current patterns and programs. The MLO videos they have been showing are all about perpendicular targets to the coils hot line, not parallel targets to one another and the coil hot line. They are not misleading people, that's not what I am implying. But if you got a smidgen of a good tone in there in all metal, you could move the coil slightly forward/away from you or slightly back/towards you and possibly separate the two targets for proper ID. All this is easily possible in all metal, with iron giving a low tone and desirable targets giving a high tone. Check out this, the coolest video yet: http://www.mlotv.com/view/387/e-trac-iron-test/



So, if a nail is next to and pointing at your target, or the nail is under the front of the coil and the coin toward the back at the same time, even with all its advancements, the detector will null. In all metal though, because of the faster response time, I hear them both, problem is, they are the same high conductive tone.

Allot of the FAQ page on the Mine Lab web site refers to possibilities of discrimination causing you to miss targets specifically #3- "How new ground..." and #4- "How does quick mask work". Read it for yourself: http://www.minelab.com/consumer/page.php?section=272&id=6&pId=25&pNm=E-Trac

The cool thing about all metal is you don't have to rely on the programs being wrong or right because the user is the program, you get to hear what sounds pretty and flutey. If it doesn't sound pretty it's usually ugly.
Then consider this: Open every detector manual from every detector you have and you will find the magic sentence in every one "all metal is the deepest searching mode" including every manual for all the previous Explorers. It's in my SE, DFX , F-75, Excalibur, heck, even my crappy Bounty Hunter manual. Less discrimination the better. And yes, the new programming does boost performance on collocated signals, maybe better than a persons ears and/or judgment can, but again, ONLY on targets that are perpendicular to the coil and not when the nails are pointing at your target or if there are nails that are parallel to the target and the hot line of the coil at the same time. That's why in severely nail infested sites, my machine just nulled out, because that same "helpful" cutting edge programming can be fooled. I don't believe any detector can do what this ETrac does, I am not knocking it, I just want to have the all metal option for these purposes I have out lined.:shrug:
 
A well known gentleman who used to post on this forum mentioned that the coil on the T2 did not act like a conventional DD. It has a definite hot spot that helps in locating targets buried near iron. Now, he did not look at it that way. In his opinion it was a failing in the coil design because it did not give the conventional "windshield wiper" effect. For those that use the T2 and have realized that for hunting HEAVY iron that you have to overlap the heck out of that coil as if you are using a small coil well then, you starting getting those hits that others miss.

So, in this video you mention, did the poster advance and/or retreat the coil a inch at a time over those co-located parallel targets????

Curious minds

HH Tom
 
At had the same results with my Coiltek Joey and Platypus coils on my SE. The front half of the coils don't ID properly, where the center and back half do. I sent back the Joey and they sent me a new one which gave the same result. I never got used to the coils so I don't use them much. Mostly because the front half of the coil would call iron silver and in infested iron that was not a very likable event. But I guess I could have inched the coil forward and checked to see if the target fell off to iron:shrug: If I wasn't in the middle of learning this new machine, I might give that a try. Thanks for the info, that has always puzzled me. As for the guy in the video, it's pretty interesting stuff, you can watch it and maybe you can tell. I got a little frustrated when I first saw it because my ETrac wasn't producing the same depth in his air test until I realized he was in manual sens and I was in auto.
 
reaffirms what those of us who have hunted using the Smartfind Screen with it mostly or totally open and Ferrous Audio have known for years. The less discrimination the better! When I hunting the Beach I have never used the digital numbers. I have always used the Smartfind Screen now redubbed Quickmask on the E-Trac. That video was very good and very enlightening. I always knew iron's positioning and angle with relation to the target made a difference but didn't realize just how much of a difference. The funny thing is I think if Minelab had realized just how much of a hornet's nest taking away the Ferrous Mode would stir up I doubt they would have done it. Or they would have given us the option of hunting the old way or the new way. JMHO

HH

Beachcomber
 
Very interesting DigitRich and a great informative video report I will be doing a few tests of my own later with a 8" coil fitted and will report back my findings, that's if it ever stops raining here in the UK.
 
It goes clear INTO typical coin values, which means they overlap. In which case, we go back to less discrimination and away from patterns, sounding familiar?:detecting:
 
the the small distance from the center to the edge is the culprit.. you get false reading on the edges so as the narrow down you get more signals from the outer windings.. this is true with all the double D's even round ones... that's why its important to keep the target under the center to get best reading... with the oval coil you really need to shorten the left to right down to where your just over the target and don't sweep off to the side or the explorer will give you the ID from the edge, especially near the end of the coils
 
anyone know what piece of iron he is using? I would venture to say the explorer would do as well in that test.. also shows how if the ferrous audio would be normal, you would get a much higher tone off the coin alerting you to check that target closer.. the sound now sounds more like any false blip in trash...
 
n/t
 
We truly need a viable all metal mode.... Not a 2-4 tone substitute in ferrous We need Conductivity with a mask/ Set-point for Iron Tones!!!!!
 
I thought QuickMask was the new name for IronMask as they now allow you to do both IronMask (along the ferrous axis) and "LeastConductiveMask" (along the conductive axis - masking from the lowest conductive targets to the highest) - it's a much better name - the name IronMask is very misleading as it'll potentially mask a lot more than just iron depending on where it's set. I could be wrong, but isn't the screen with the cursor still called SmartFind?
 
Yes, I was thinking that, I would not have dug a lot of those signals as they didn't have a very smooth sound to them on the leading/trailing edge - sounded to me like falsing or junk.
 
Manual sensitivity, deep and fast both off, he made up his own basic iron discrim. pattern, and smooth response. He said he only had the machine one day when he made the video.

The reason the 1/2 penny he used came in at a low tone is because if you look at Rigit's chart, they have a low cond number.
 
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