For those who have owned both an Explorer and an E-TRAC and still use the Explorer....

[jbow]

Do you use the Exp mostly for coins or for everything and why do you prefer it over the E-TRAC. I have both an I find the ET to be easier to use but I wonder if the SE I have might not be a better choice when hunting old coins, especially silver. Personally I find the Sovereign beats them both on jewelry or on the beach... so I am thinking of lawns and "hunted out" (not) parks. I find the ET is very good at finding masked bullets and buttons but as I said I am wondering about the coins.

I really sturggled with my SE for the better part of a year, tunning it in conductive/multi-tones and different patterns. I couldn't get used to all the tones it would make, especially on a shallow target. A few weeks before I bought the E-TRAC I began to use the SE in ferrous/multi-tones and I added the Pro coil. Needless to say it made a LOT of difference and I finally began to make finds with the SE but the ET was like an "old pair of jeans" right out of the box. I almost always set it in ferrous/2-tones and rely on the digital screen, it is very reliable.... however... I am thinking once again about the SE, especially as a coin hunter and I would like your thoughts. I have toyed with selling it for a year but haven't been able to convince myself that I am through with it.

What say ye??

Thanks,

Julien

 

[jbow]

If you do... why and for what sort of hunting. Do you feel it gives you more information on the target? Do you feel it goes any deeper?

Personally, I wonder if the jumping of the cursor on the Explorer line gives a bit more info over the E-TRAC which does not jump like the Exp.

Any opinions?

J

 

[Southwind]

I owned a SE several years ago and I have no doubt my E-Trac goes deeper. I cleaned out as deep as my SE would go in the city park, but I can take my E-Trac to the same spot and pull hands full of coins missed by my SE. Most were out of the depth ability of my SE.

 

[Dennis 2]

J . I have both . Had a Et , sold it and then bought another one thinking I was missing something. My finds count has gone down with the ET ( now this is for me). It's easier to use then the EX ,but I do feel like you, that Ex gives you more information on the target. I don't have to guess what they are like I do with the ET. I've put over a years time into the ET. But the few times I've taken out my SE I've done better with it. The sounds are just better for me on the SE.
HH
Dennis

 

[jbow]

Thanks for the opinion. I used the SE for a little today and I still find the audio to be jumpy, however... I did not try running it the way I run my E-TRAC. I run the ET in ferrous and 2 tones. I tried the SE with a little IM and with the 'coins' pattern. I ran it in conductive/multi and in ferrous with the variability on 10... I don't remember all the settings on the SE but I should have tried the "one tone" option, I need to look and see if I can set it for 2 tones like the ET. A low tone for iron and a high tone for non-ferrous. I might like it better then maybe it wont be so jumpy then. What I mean by jumpy is any shallow target giving a bunch of tones... I hate that.

I had a good day with the ET, found a bicentennial Kennedy half, a couple of quarters, a handfull of bronze pennies, two wheaties, three dimes, an old Georgia Motor Vehicle registration tag #3777 it is round about 2" across and i've never seen one before... and a "Billy Bones" Long John Silvers token... and a really nice small ladies butterfly shaped buckle, it is about 1.5" across and about 1" high and the tongue still works it has a nice green patina.

I didn't find any silver. I don't think someone has "cherry picked this place" it is a churchyard and I had to get permission. The first time I hunted it I noticed at least two people drive up to see who it was. I had gotten permission from the pastor and insisted that he run it by the elders... so I was covered but i'm pretty sure some people called them and they came to looksee. There are plenty of coins but the soil isn't like the native red clay ground. It is black and soft and clad is 5-6 inches deep.. so I think the silver is there. Oh, I also found two brads from an old bridle, the sort i've found in CW cavalry camps with a little leather still attached.
The quarters, the half, and the dimes were all colored black or really some really dark color. I wonder if fertilizer does that.

I will try to set the SE for 2 tones like the ET and see what I get... but I am pretty sure I am going to sell it. Somehow I have just never been able to warm up to it, mostly because of the arpeggio signal it gives on so many targets... I hate that.

Thanks again. I couldn't understand how so many people could have read this post and with no response.

Julien

 

[jbow]

I haven't had the opportunity to compare depth because the ground is so hard around here that not much is at depth but I do think that the ET unmasks targets like nothing i've ever used. In "hunted out" parks it will make finds regularly... but maybe the SE will to in the right hands.

Like I said in the other post, if I can figure out how to set the SE for 2 tones, split at ferrous/non-ferrous then I can compare apples to apples.

I don't really expect to like the SE better, even for a single purpose like silver but I am willing to give an honest try. I was running the ET today with fast=off; deep=off; low trash; neutral ground. Usually I do the opposite, in trashy old parks but with it set like this, the VDI numbers were more accurate.... however I still cannot tell a clad dime from a bronze penny. Do you know how to set the ET to tell them apart?

Another question since you've had a lot of experience with both machines. Do you know how to tell when the battery is fully charged?

Thanks,

Julien

BTW... are you from the south? I'm wondering about your name "Southwind".

 

[EZrider]

In defence of the ETrac

I don't think it gets any better depth. I do think it gets better ID and disc at depth. I also think it has a better discrimination as well as filters over the EX. It is to me the best ID and discrimination detector on the planet today.

 

[Hotcz70]

is exactly what EZrider stated in his response. IMHO he nailed it on the head

I don't think it gets any better depth. I do think it gets better ID and disc at depth.

I have found 11" deep dimes with the Explorer 2...SE...and the E-Trac...so there is no difference in depth for me.

The following few statements apply to some hunters (not all). They are my OWN personal opinions and I am not trying to "start" a debate...so I hope it doesn't turn into one.

What I am stating comes from 1000's of fairly successful hours on the explorers training my ears to listen for only ONE thing....DEEP coins.

NOT jewelry...nickels...relics...etc...ONLY deep coins...more specificlly... the sound of deep silver and injuns'.

For some people I feel that if you really never got over the "hump" and broke into the 10" deep coin barrier with the Explorers...then the E-Trac seems like the "answer".

It is smoother than my SE and does exactly what EZrider stated IMHO...which might give that same explorer user what seemed to be perceived as "more depth".

If however you somewhat "mastered" the deep silver sound of the explorers...and find the deeper and older coins in the 10" to 11" range...then the E-Trac won't do as much for you as it did the explorer user who truthfully just never was able to learn the sounds and language it spoke over deep and masked coins. It comes ONLY with experience and 1000's of hours at different sites...in different conditions...with different iron levels...and different trash levels...etc.

Many people try too much too fast...this setting...that setting...instead of just getting out there...having fun...experimenting over deeper targets...and just plain old learning the machine.

Do I feel I have "mastered" my machine?....NO WAY. I feel I learn something each time out.

Me personally...YES...I have found some deep and walked over coins with the E-Trac that I myself missed at some of my pounded sites with my SE and EX2.

WHY??...possibly because in some spots the E-Trac ID'ed better at depth at those particular sites.

The flipside....I have also found deep, walked over coins with my SE that my E-Trac missed.

WHY??...because of the RAW power it has..which I run pretty much maxed with high gain and highest possible sensitivity for that particular site.
ALSO...because I have spent a gazillion hours training my ears to listen for deep coins in iron and trash...more particularly to discern deep coins hiding in iron FROM deep iron falses and chirps.

Is it foolproof?....NOPE I dig my share of iron...but I also find my share of seated and older coins.

Anyway...my opinion of the E-trac being deeper than the explorer is what it is. I do not feel it is deeper...and I did the best I could to explain my personal opinion.

As for the original question to your post....no I do not prefer one over the other. I use it EXACTLY as I do all the coils in my arsenal...different tools for different situations. I still prefer the Explorer 2 at some sites. I feel it is better than the SE is in iron...although I have learned to make it work for me in tough iron as well...and LOVE the pinpoint feature of the SE because it ID's in the all metal pinpoint mode. I use this as another tool when making the final decision on whether or not to dig an iffy target.

 

[jbow]

and I realize that this goes into the realm of total subjectivity and may mean nothing for me and my sites BUT...

I am curious about what your general settings are. Your starting point at any given site with the Explorer. I realize that as you hunt you will make changes but where do you usually start. You see I am having trouble understanding the tones on the Explorer, especially on the more shallow targets. I'm sure you know what I mean when I refer to the arpeggio or tune it will sing, with a bunch of different tones on some targets.

I've mostly hunted it with a coins and jewelry pattern but I have usually defaulted to the digital screen and memorized the numbers. I wonder if I am missing a lot of info from the way the cursor jumps on the SE. I have variability=10; limits=10; gain=22 (I think... sometimes I run it on 24) I don't max the volume but use the headphones to turn it up. I use pitch hold... I really have forgotten a lot because I got the ET and put the SE in the closet for over a year. So if you have any questions you can ask me that you think might help you understand something I might do to help me better understand the SE... please ask me.

I almost always run the ET in ferrous/2 tone because the conductive number is so reliable and the ferrous number just has to be in a range to indicate a good target I am not sure if I can set the SE to do that. I know I can set the tones to "constant" and use IM, then check the smartscreen....
On the ET I cannot tell a bronze penny from a clad dime, on the SE IIRC the ferrous number is a little different but with so many variables in any ground I would be digging anyway...

My limited knowledge of the Explorer tells me that I will get the most from it by running a good pattern or IM according to where I am hunting and using conductive/multi. Especially if I am coinshooting, I do relic hunt more than I coinhunt BUT... I have this old (new to me) Churchyard that has soft black dirt over most of it and there are plenty of targets. Yesterday I tried to use the SE but got frustrated by all the tones (but I like that really high tone of silver). I switched to the ET and dug a really nice small butterfly shaped brass buckle with the tongue still intact and working, a Kennedy bicentennial half dollar, a round tag about 2" diameter that says Georgia Registered Motor Vehicle #3777 it is tin or something and a little bit of it is corroded away...alas, two clad quarters, three clad dimes, three wheat pennies, a handfull of bronze pennies, and a Long John Silvers token with "Billy Bones" on it... laff. The thing is this, I am certain that there is deep silver there. From the stuff I found I don't think anyone has "cherry picked" there. I am hoping to utilize the SE to find it if I can get past the falsing on higher gain and the song-tone of shallow or large targets. Do deeper targets give multiple tones or do they tend to give one high tone?

I am open to any and all advice. I have toyed with selling the SE for a year but haven't been sure. When I bought it I had been using an F75 for over a year and was good with it. However, I forced myself to use the SE on every hunt for the first hour or two and it was frustrating, I found little with it but then I would read about all the people who do so well with it and make such great finds with it... I was determined to learn to use it. I'm not sure I ever did though. Now I am ready to give it another try. I just could not stand to go on with the idea that there was a detector that I could not master... so anyway... just, if you can, give me a general starting point. I think/hope I can take it from there. I can read all the posts and books but sometimes hearing something from someone you respect makes a difference... for that matter, anyone who has a tip for me... I am all ears. I am going to the Churchyard this afternoon again. Maybe my expectations are not right with the Explorer, again my biggest problem is understanding the multiple tones it will give on one target. Is there information in all those tones or are they just a bunch of tones that you have to try and pick the correct tone out of?
I will be ordering that 12x15 SEF and the 6x8.

I may give the SovereignGT a little use today too... it has multitones too but only one per target.

Thanks for any help.

Julien

 

[Hotcz70]

Hi Julien.

I'm spending some time with my dad right now so I honestly don't have a whole lot of time to get into a long response. Also...I don't type...I peck...so there's no way I can go into a whole lot of detail.

You asked what I "start" at...and I must be honest...I start exactly where I said with my settings...and I NEVER vary from them in any way....regardless of sites. Is the right thing to do?..maybe not...but it sure as heck has worked for me.

The only thing I will ever change is the sensitivity. I haven't chenged even one setting on my SE and EX2 in over 3 years.

I truthfully feel this is why I have been able to be fairly successful on the explorers...because I found what worked for me...and LEARNED what I heard through repetition...because I did not change settings that could effect the sounds I heard and change them in any way.

I stuck with the same settings no matter what conditions I encountered...and soaked in what my machine said to me over deep iron...coins hiding in iron...coins on edge...coins at 10" depths...coins in trash...etc.

I run my gain maxed at 10...variability maxed at 10...Limits maxed at 10...and max limits at 10....and hunt in conductive sounds.

I also run semi auto sensitivity at 26...BUT will go manual 26 if I don't get too much falsing over deep iron.

My iron mask is set at the factory setting of 22 and I hunt in the smartfind screen....with my threshold barely audible.

I also have BOTH fast and deep turned off.

If I close the iron mask even one setting...then my SE won't signal through nulling...and if I open it even one more number...then I start diggin' too much iron...because it starts to mimic deep silver.

I get so much more useful information watching the cursor "flutter" on deep or "iffy" hits this way.

I absolutely hate the smartfing screen on the E-Trac because I love it on the explorers...and it is completely different where coins hit on it.

I hunt 100% by sound alone on both the explorers and the E-Trac...but I DO love to use the smartfind screen on the SE and EX2 to watch cursor movement.

On the E-Trac...I never even look at the screen...because it really screws me up. The ONLY reason I do is if I want to check the ferrous numbers when I switch to quickmask....which I have set to wide open all metal.

On the explorers...when I get a deep coin hit...especially silver...the sound is a mellow high pitched "tinkling"...whereas clad hits will be a "hollow" sound and not have the multi tone high pitched "trinkling" sound.

I set up the E-Trac EXACTLY how I like my explorer to sound. I changed only three settings to do so. 1) jacked gain to a maxed out 30...2) went to manual sensitivity at 26...3) maxed out the variability to 30 to give the greatest sound difference between silver and other coins.

That's it...everything else on the E-Trac is turn on and hunt PRESET

Gotta' run now...dad is not well and I'm trying to help him out with some things.

I probably didn't give you any answers you need...but I did the best I could.

 

[jbow]

Thanks Bryce,

You and your dad will be in my prayers.

I will try your settings today

J

 

[Hotcz70]

a few paragraphs I always email to people who want to try my settings.

First off and foremost...my settings are NOT for everyone...and they take some getting used to.

The 3 keys for me which make my settings effective for me when searching for deep park silver at pounded sites are the following...

1) high gain which allows deep silver chirps to be heard

2) Semi auto sensitivity at 26 which makes the SE very stable while still running the high gain setting I prefer. Because of this..the SE has no problems hitting 8" to 10" coins. If the ground is clean and you don't seem to get the depth you need.....give manual 26 a shot.

3) Iron mask set at -22. this is a precise setting for me that I never vary from. 1 seting higher....and deep iron starts to mimick deep silver hits...hence some falsing. Also at this -22 setting... I have no problems hitting the same 8" to 10" deep coins even while the SE may be nulling....which is very important.

IMPORTANT: Please be aware you will hear some falsing and it will be up to you to discern between falsing and deep coin hits. The semi auto sensitivity does control the falsing quite a bit...but you might still hear some.

IMPORTANT: Please have the confidence to know that if you are going slow enough through iron...that your machine will still let a nice deep coin hit signal through the nulls.

 

[TURNMASTER]

This has been a helpfull topic
Thanks to all.

Jeff

 

[jbow]

I printed out your response yesterday and tried it at the Churchyard. It is what I have needed, settings to try with some level of confidence to stop my second guessing and constant tweaking... not to mention that they work well.

I was happy with the settings. It did run smoother than I am used to with the SE. I didn't find any silver but I had one hit that I wanted to check with the ET before digging it. However when I went to the truck I decided to grab the V3 (another machine that I am having a hard time with it is a little heavy and not as well balanced and it always seems to be too hot, no matter what I do... but I don't want to get that started here). I went back to the marked target and was finally able to find some settings on the V3 that would give me an "iffy" hit on the target. I thought from what the SE was telling me that it has a good possibility to be a deep coin. I left because people were showing up for a Saturday evening singing. The pastor and the elders/deacons are ok with me hunting there (when the pastor told me it would be OK, I asked him to run it by the deacons before I would hunt, they agreed too so I hope that will head off any "busybody" who might complain one day... but I don't push it).

I will go back next week and see what it is. I can't tell you how happy I am with your settings and I was able to run it part of the time in manual and would check some weak signals with manual.

Thank you, thank you, thank you!!

I'll be using it and comparing it to the ET over the spring. I'll certainly tell you what I think. I can't wait to try those SEF coils. Hopefully I will be able to order them soon.


Julien

 

[digitrich]

JBow, If you could get used to hunting in all metal with the SE in ferrous tones and run it hot, ignoring falses and digging the repeaters, it could easily out do the Etrac in many instances, ESPECIALLY, in farm fields and plowed soil. The TID on the SE is slower than the Etrac but a great deal more accurate and steady. With disc, the Etrac will out shine the SE to a degree because of the dense trash setting, and you will find masked coins that the SE could of found, but only in all metal and long audio which is quite fatiguing to use. The SE will hit many meteorites the Etrac won't. The Etrac for the same reason will ignore allot of hot rocks that will plague the SE. I have noticed a considerable advantage of the SE over the Etrac in neutral soils and a considerable advantage of the Etrac over the SE in heavily mineralized soils. Because of that, I will always own both. If you don't hunt neutral soils, plowed fields or meteorites, all metal, ferrous tones; you could confidently let go of the SE.

It really comes down to how much time are you willing to put in the SE......The Etrac and the SE are only comparable machines when the SE is in the hands of a very experienced and dedicated user....Problem is, with all high end machines, Using several high end machines proficiently will not net you the results of using one and mastering it. The old phrase: JACK OF ALL TRADES, MASTER OF NONE, fits quite well here.

I myself own the same high end machines you do and I have found coins with all of them BUT, consistent results are only obtained when I use the same machine over and over and over and over. Soon as I play, let's see if the vision will find something or the LTD, or the Tejon.....yes, I find stuff....but I am learning a different language and possibly missing things because of it. Had I just used the machine I knew...I would of had a much more productive hunt. More importantly, if I use one of those other machines too long, I start to loose or unlearn the machine I am best with. I am not ambidextrous, especially with different machines. Hope that helps you.

Joe

 

[jbow]

Yes, I agree. Almost all the sites I hunt are medium to high mineral and the ET does well. In really bad ground the Tejon works well with the main disc set in AM VCO and then check targets with disc 2... it is also the best in heavy iron but not with the AM VCO setting. You should try the Tejon with disc one set in AM VCO the next time you try a field or some other place without a lot of trash.

I know what you mean about too many machines, too much to remember, but I like detectors.

I learned to use the SE in AM ferrous just before I got the ET and was beginning to do well with it. I am thinking of using it strictly for coins. In old parks the E-TRAC really seems to shine at finding masked targets in the trash... and I like the V3 with the 4x6 coil. I like the D2 coil but it is heavy for me and all the settings seem too hot. I can't seem to calm it down without the 4x6 and I just don't like concentric coils.

I'm thinking that I need to decide to keep either the T2 or the F75 LTD... surely I don't need both but there is a little sentimental attachment to the T2, plus after two trips back to FT, it is VERY stable... but still, I don't see a need for both. The LTD seems to have a problem with an accurate VDI number but when I was fiddling with it yesterday, trying to get a good TID on a known target in the yard I discovered that it will give a much better TID with a very small wiggle. FT has always said that you need to swing the F75 with a wide swing to get the best TID but I think maybe with the LTD in BP.. that the wiggle may give a better TID, it certainly did for me yesterday on a target that all my machines struggle with. This was with the 11" coil too, I think the small coil will do better.

Anyway, probably not the place to discuss different machines. I just think that it is god to have and know an assortment of machines because they are all different and some will work better at a given site... but you are right about mastering one machine and about beginning to forget what you knew if you don't use one main machine enough. Thankfully, I get to hunt everyday if I want to and I have a desire to be a "jack of all trades and a master of all", at least with my detectors... one can dream I guess...

Thanks for the input. still have your number, maybe i'll give you a another call one day.

Thanks,
Julien