G2 vs steel crown caps & thin rusty tin/iron ???

[Cal_Cobra]

I've been interested in the G2 as well as the GBSE/GBP since they came out, and have seen some nice finds posted here.

I'm interested to know how well the G2 or GBSE/GBP handles those lovely steel crown caps we all love using the 11" DD?

How about old rusty tin or thin flat iron that we find in old ghost towns and such?

Thanks and happy hunting!!
Brian

 

[BH_Landstar_]

http://www.findmall.com/read.php?35,1332753

Visit the link above.

 

[Jackpine Savage]

Brian I have not used the pure VCO version of the GB's but can say that the G2 gives enough audio clues to ignore rusty tin and flat iron quite easily once you become accustomed to it. I typically run the disc in the 28 to 35 range depending on site conditions and the big stuff that breaks thru sounds big with enough iron edginess to let me ignore it or dig it when I so desire. This ability to audibly "size" targets in disc mode is right up there with a good analog machine if not better IMO.

To be honest I was concerned how well this would work out with the sliding tone break disc setup. As it turns out the audio advancement vs. say the pure VCO on the Omega makes it pretty much a cinch for me. I would dearly love to see the Omega have the same audio in d2 mode!!

Tom

 

[Low-Boy/LCPM]

It is the same as the LTD it loves all targets but when I relic hunt I don't care I want to hear and dig it all. I on crown caps there are a few tricks to tell then from coins on the G2

 

[Monte]

can generally reject the old crown-type bottle caps and a lot of the smaller rusty tin. No detector can do it perfectly every time, and size and depth of the rusty tin must be considered. I love to hunt several favorite ghost towns sand small iron is some of the biggest challenge. DD coils, such as the 11" BiAxial, will have a bit more problem with discrimination, especially ferrous junk, compared with a concentric coil. One problem is due to the bottle caps and similar small magnetic stuff being located on the surface or reasonably close to the search coil. Double-D designs have some quirky problems with near-proximity targets, so you need to raise the search coil a little so that you're maybe 3" or so from the target.

There are suggestions in modern manuals on how to deal with bottle caps and similar stuff that is about the same as I have been using and instructing in seminars for 30 years now.I use one or both of the two techniques and generally reduce the number of bottle caps recoveries by 90% or better. I coined the terms 'Quick-Out' and 'EPR' (Edge-Pass Rejection) back when I started seminars in 1981. I have them post posted on our website under Audio Target Classification in the Tips & Techniques section. You can click on them at ahrps.org and read it or print it out.

I usually use the smaller coil on the G2 in trashier suites and it handles those blasted bottle caps quite well. However, learning the detector and 11" coil you will find that it, too, isn't that difficult. Just remember that if you classify a bottle cap as iron junk and ignore it, you might be missing a desired target that is under it or too close and is masked.

Monte

 

[Ray(Ca)]

Hey Brian

Will be interesting to see how the G2 can handle the flat iron of Nevada Ghost towns. I will be bringing the Vaq and T2SE and hopefully you will have a G2 by then. It will be a great time. I'm looking forward to seeing how the SE and G2 compares on big flat iron.

Ray

 

[Monte]

Steel bottle caps are one issue to deal with and using a good technique can often/usually get them to produce a low-tone audio response (if you have Tone ID with iron audio) or a visual 'Iron' TID and/or low-reading VDI numbers.

Now, note that he mentioned "thin rusty tin" with the emphasis here being on 'thin.' Often/usually, that can also be handled much like kicking out a steel bottle caps. It kind of depends on how thin, what size, and how rusted away it is.

You mentioned big flat iron and I can just imagine how annoying it can be because I have dealt with it in so many ghost towns I have hunted in Oregon, Idaho, Utah, Wyoming, Colorado, Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, California and, even the great state of Nevada. Different ground mineral make-up, different detectors and coils and circuitry designs, they all have a challenge with bottle caps and small rusty tin, but that blasted big stuff just needs to be moved.

Of course, you definition of 'big flat iron' and my interpretation might differ a bit, but so many of the old towns and tone sites I've worked were railroad-based towns or mining towns or logging towns and they each have presented a good deal of problem junk. Shoot, I even get frustrated when I get into a location with a dense scattering of the smaller rusty tin because I know that, although I don't want to, if I remove it rather than kick it aside I will be getting rid of some good-target masking.

The same applies to some of the 1895-1920 era homes and home-sites I've been hunting the past four months where I've encountered a lot of tin or iron that is maybe half decent condition to rusted to well-rusted, and comes in a variety of sizes from small and bearable to sort-of-small and annoying, to bigger than I want and I know I can't just work around it. Well certainly I DO work around it, initially, as I search the general area, then I have to go back, make sure there is a clean, detected spot, then move the bigger iron or tine so I can search where it was and close to where it was.

It will be good to take your vaquero and any extra coils you have, and your T2 SE with both coils. Then do some serious side-by-side comparisons with the G2, especially if it also has both the 11" and 5" DD coils. The T2 can get better depth than the G2, to be sure, and it can be swept at a slower sweep speed, if needed, than the G2. If I bump the Discrimination up on the G2 just enough to produce a low-tone on a few iron nails, and then match that with the T2, I then select the 2+ Audio Tone of the T2 for comparison. If both models are ground balance at the same spot, and both are using the same search coil, they can be very close in performance.

The T2 is one of the fastest-response detectors I have used that still gives a good audio hit at various sweep speeds, and it can be swept rather briskly, too. The G2 can't be swept as slowly and get much depth compared with the T2, however, if these is any serious competition out there for a detector to compete with the T2 in all-purpose in-the-field performance in and around junk .... it is the G2 (or Gold Bug Pro).

I look forward to hearing your report after you've worked them together enough to check a number of targets, comparing different settings. I know that the G2 has caused me to re-think the T2 even more. Both the Omega and Gamma are excellent detectors, and while they are versatile and able to compete well with the likes of the White's MXT/MXT Pro, or M6 if just hunting in the Disc. mode, they do differ from the Omega and Gamma. I mention them here because for a bulk of the urban Coin hunting I do, since I'm stuck here as a city dweller, I appreciate their better TID lock-on for coin hunting purposes over the T2. I've used both the Omega and Gamma on the road in out-of-the-way homesteads and old town locations, and I did just fine. I used them both, especially the Omega, with the 5" DD search coil which I feel is almost a must-have if hunting ghost towns and the like with an abundance of trash.

The came the G2. Simple design, simple set-up, simple straight forward display. Not cluttered with TID segments suited for a typical 'coin hunter' but just a VDI scale and VDI read-out that is more than sufficient for a serious coin hunter, a relic hunter, or just any avid detectorist who likes decent 'raw performance' out of a detector.

Often I have done a review of a particular detector, learned what I liked about, noted what didn't appeal to me, and then I might get one or I might not. The G2 was simply impressive. Not for depth. Not for working in and around a lot of ghost town junk with a slower sweep to handle the trash. But just the gutsy performance, especially with the 5" DD coil in most locations that I hunt, and the 11" DD in the more open sites. I hunted some of the building demolition sites I had access to with the Omega and a bit with the Gamma (not the T2 because I didn't have the 5" coil for it), and i did well. Those two models have a lot of potential, to be sure. Then I swapped the 5" DD from the Omega to the G2 and.... WOW! I started hitting on good targets in the nastiest of trash at all of those sites.

I've spoken with a few dealers over the past week-and-a-half and I was asked three main questions with regard to the Teknetics line and my personal favorites. These three questions were as follows:

Q.. If I could not have more than only 1 metal detector from Teknetics, and had to pick the most versatile, what would it be?
A.. Remember, I am not a city hunter all the time and for me I enjoy versatility. The only pick was the T2. I'd get the SE versions, too, so that i would have both the 11" and 5" DD coils.


Q.. If I had to choose between the Omega/Gamma and the T2, which would it be?
A.. If I were limited to only coin hunting in urban environments, it would be the Omega or Gamma with their stock coil and 5" DD. However, since I like to head out of town a lot, or work older sites when I find them, then with this pick it would be the T2 with both the 11" and 5" DD coils.


Q.. If I had to choose between the Omega/Gamma and the G2, which would it be?
A.. As with the last question, I like a broader variety of sites than only cruising grassy parks and schools so my pick would be the G2, and naturally it would be with both the 11" and 5" DD coils.

I will say that some tried to pin me down to selecting either the G2 or T2, each with 2 coils, and all I could do was smile and remind them ... I'm not limited to only one detector.

I wish you both good success, and look forward to hearing/reading posts from both of you after your return home.

Monte

 

[Cal_Cobra]

Hey Ray,

I'm looking forward to this trip, I have a good feeling we'll bring home the goods

I don't know if I'll have a G2 or a Gold Bug SE/Pro (leaning heavily towards the GB, as I could use the 5" coil on my O, but I'll definitely be bringing my F75 LTD and my Omega.

No matter what we bring, it's going to be a good time and an adventure

Happy hunting,
Brian

 

[TerraDigger]

As a new T2 owner I am highly predjudiced to your opinions. All I hear anymore is Omega, G2, Gamma, F75's............my poor T2 has been forgotten.......lol
But somehow.......instinctively, I guess............I chose the T2..............I still think it's expanded iron range will absolutely rock in parks & turf for coin hunting....just a gut feeling.
Thanks for the 'if I had to pick one' write-up.

 

[Monte]

is one of the reasons I like the T2 because I hunt a lot of sites that have rock problems. In late summer we have some river beaches that are terribly mineralized, both the blackened sand and the associated smaller to golf ball to baseball sized rocks. Also, as I have often stated, I hunt many older former dwelling sites than have the flattish rocks used to stack and make a wall or chimney and, when they have fallen and scattered, I don't want to move every one of them. I only want to move those that have a metal target under them.

Now, my 'Homestead Rock' measures 6" X 9" X 2" thick at the center. It came from a homestead in Central Oregon where I left the other fallen-down rocks as I only needed one. Toting too many would be nuts! I use it in my seminars and other demonstrations and usually place a coin, such as a US Zinc 1

 

[dioramix]

So, using his smaller rock and not my 'Homestead Rock' I placed his iron nail under in and swept it across the center of the search coil of the Omega with the Discrimination at minimum. Nothing!

Use Monte (notch) and the knob-discrimination laws to 1. will work correctly, other filters work

 

[Monte]

Quote by Monte:
So, using his smaller rock and not my 'Homestead Rock' I placed his iron nail under in and swept it across the center of the search coil of the Omega with the Discrimination at minimum. Nothing!

Use Monte (notch) and the knob-discrimination laws to 1. will work correctly, other filters work.

With the Discriminate level set at minimum ('1') on the Omega and Gamma, they DO sound off on a coin covered by the rock, but they DO NOT sound off on the sample nail covered by the rock. The T2 and G2 will, and the T2 produced the best total response on that test.

There was no 'filtering' employed other than just the detector in stock design, and with the Audio Tone ID at d1 or d2 it was slightly better than at d3 and d4, especially so far as sweep speed was concerned. Notch Discrimination has no beneficial help in such a test as the rock-covered nail compared with the rock-covered US coin. That is simple a tough test to determine now low a detector's Discriminate range can adjust so as to accept all metal targets and ignore a dense ground type object. All detectors were first GB'ed to the rock prior to testing.

Monte

 

[Ken in Georgia]

Monte, have you ever used the DFX ? How do you think it matches up with Gamma or Omega or T2 or G2. You will tell me its apples and oranges, but with the reprogrammable detectors, and software advancements, do they play a role in what we are looking at as far as your rock?

Thanks for the help

HH
Ken

 

[Monte]

Ken, I almost didn't scroll back enough pages to find this post. It is an easy one to answer, however, at least for me.

Monte, have you ever used the DFX ?

Yes, I've used them and have owned four DFX's in the past.

How do you think it matches up with Gamma or Omega or T2 or G2.

Other than different physical design and weight and balance, and use of different operating frequencies, plus a difference in Tone ID function and other adjustment settings, they all are metal detectors. Perhaps the better match-up would be to say that it is almost like comparing ....

You will tell me its apples and oranges,...

Mind Reader!

Honestly, they all have their one strong and weak points to accomplish the same goal, which really is just to detect a metal target. In that respect, they are no different than all other makes and models out there. The differences we should note as we learn and mater any detector when trying to 'match' them against what we have or have had or are considering, is what useful features they offer that can help us for the types of hunting we like to do. By useful I am not referring to just any control they have, but how well it works, and if it is a functional benefit to us overall. Not all adjustments are.

I like the White's XLT and XL Pro and MXT and M6. I tried to like the DFX but it just never worked as well as the XLT, its cousin. I like the Tone ID of the XLT and DFX better than most Tone ID functions found on any make or model. I have appreciated the numeric VDI read-out on the White's models and was pleased to see this feature on the T2 and those models which have followed. The DFX is an OK detector for a lot of people, certainly, but it just isn't what interest me. I do like the XLT as a 'cruising' detector, but to try and 'match' the DFX against the Gamma, Omega, G2 and T2 isn't easy. I'll give it a try as I view them, however.

1.. All of the Teknetics models are lighter weight and balance much better. The White's models aren't bad, but the Teknetics are better in weight and balance.

2.. The Gamma and Omega are is a much lower retail price class so, in fairness, I don't consider them an even comparison. If I do, my vote goes to the Gamma and Omega because they are quick into action and work quite well for most casual or ordinary day-to-day coin hunting applications.

3.. The G2 is also not in the same price class as the DFX, and as most are aware, the G2 was not intended for the same market, either. The G2 is a definite consideration for serious nugget hunting, yet functions admirably for a lot of jewlery hunters, relic hunters, and coin hunters when working in trashier sites, especially.

4.. The Teknetics T2 and the DFX are close in suggested retail price and fit in the top-end of the manufacturer's model line-up. These two can be compared more fairly. Both provide separate Sensitivity adjustment for the All Metal mode as well as the Discriminate mode. The T2 also offers separate adjustment of the Pinpoint Sensitivity level.

Both models have the option for Tone ID in the Discriminate mode. The DFX has the full-range variable Tone ID that is tied to the conductivity or VDI reading, or you can turn it off and get a single tone for all targets. With the T2 you can select '1' and get a single tone audio on all targets, or pick the '1+' Tone ID which is the same but incorporates VCO audio. Then '2+' Tone ID is the same as '1+' but provides a two-tone break that gives a lower bassy tone for iron targets (under VDI of 40) and a higher VCO audio response for non-ferrous targets. If you like to have some control over multi-tone ID there is also the 3, 3b, 4 and dp Tone ID choices. Personally, my favorites with the T2 are either the '1' or '2+' options for my style of hunting.

Neither of these models have a saturated audio response, as we know it on other models so designed, and their modulated audio response can respond to targets better at depth than the Target ID readings. Both will hit targets deeper than they can properly ID them, but that's all part of learning to use a high-performance detector.

As I stated, I have had some DFX's and while some like them, I don't. I prefer the XLT to the DFX, regardless of supposed upgrades in performance, because for me, the XLT works better at TID on mid-depth targets. I've had more than plenty XLT's to be sure, and I'll buy another new one this spring strictly to use as a 'cruising unit' in my arsenal. For some, the DFX might fill that role. The T2, however, is a different critter for me.

I hunt a lot of sites that require a slow-sweep and quicker response performance due to the dense brush, or because there is a lot of trash. The T2 does that. I mainly use a smaller-than-stock coil because I work in dense trash, and while the 6

 

[Ken in Georgia]

Thank you monte