Golden I gotta ask you a dumb question. I think this is dumb, because, from what you've told me in the past, what I've seen in your pictures, and others, and my own intuitive, more or less common sense, but I still want to ask it, because I think your one of the main relic people on this fourm. I know you told me to clean my medalian, which I may have gotten stolen from my glove box when my car was broken into last month, , but you said I should use WD 40 and be careful with it. Can I assume that anything copper, brass, silver, or whatever SHOULD NOT, be cleaned with anything like a heavy duty coper or brass or silver cleaner, because it would shine them up too much and destroy the value. I know I keep nawing at this cleaning thing, probably because I know it can adversley affect coin value, if you clean too much and take off the so called natural look of the coin. Is it the same here for relics? I'm even baffelled on the coin cleaning thing, because I read from a seemingly well informed guy where he wouldn't clean copper coins too much but he'd clean silver coins and felt he could get away with it. I'm all ears, and very curious to yours or anyone else's comments on this darn cleaning thing whether it involves coins, relics, or artifacts. It seems like it's extremely touchy, and depends on how much, and how far you clean it, and what color and stuff you end up with. Man, this is a real pain in the butt issue for me, but seems to be EXTREMELY, important if we're dealing with anything valuable. Please be paitint with me cause I'm a dumb dumb in this area. I've read all the responses to mine and other posts on the subject, but I'm still nervouse about cleaning anything that might be valuable and especially with the electrolysis method, although that seems to be the only way I could get some of the patina, and really bad crud off of some of my coins. Ok, I'm done talking. Thanks for all your patience, and I'm gonna go back to my cage now and pray, for myself and wait for an answer. :| I know I shouldn't get you all too stired up on stuff, but darn it, this is too important an issue to neglect, I belive.