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Hey Monte, if you're going to quote the MX5 manual at least get it right :shrug:

Hombre

New member
Hi Monte,
...I'm sure you did not intend to misquote the MX5 AutoTrac info from the manual...BUT here is what you wrote, taken verbatim from the BEACH mode info in the manual.......

{IN RED} "Because the track range now includes the entire ferrous region, it is possible for iron targets to cause tracking errors. Therefore, if a target gives an initial response and then quickly fades away on subsequent short sweeps, it is likely an iron target. Using Pinpoint mode will lock tracking and allow you to zero in on the target. You may first need to move off the target and bob the coil a couple of times to re-establish a correct ground balance point, then switch to Pinpoint mode"...Then you responded {Quote by Monte in green}...."And most places I hunt have bad ground and an over-abundance of iron/ferrous targets, and it is possible, for tracking errors, and it does happen."

...But Monte, I'm not hunting in the Beach mode, it tracks into the iron and a bit positive to eliminate salt. I hunt in low mineral soil and the MX5 AutoTrac is doing it's job, IN THE COIN MODE which tracks down to the minus 93 to -98 range. I have hunted some nasty nail riddled sites in Kansas,,,Oklahoma and Texas, granted, these states are not as mineralized as Oregon and some western states that you hunt in. I have not had any tracking problems in the Coin mode in these states. I found out just how mineralized your area is by hunting Seaside beach Oregon with my Pantera.

I hope you do not take this post as an attack on your character, just pointing out some disagreement with your post.
 
Hombre said:
Hi Monte,
...I'm sure you did not intend to misquote the MX5 AutoTrac info from the manual...BUT here is what you wrote, taken verbatim from the BEACH mode info in the manual.......

{IN RED} "Because the track range now includes the entire ferrous region, it is possible for iron targets to cause tracking errors. Therefore, if a target gives an initial response and then quickly fades away on subsequent short sweeps, it is likely an iron target. Using Pinpoint mode will lock tracking and allow you to zero in on the target. You may first need to move off the target and bob the coil a couple of times to re-establish a correct ground balance point, then switch to Pinpoint mode"...Then you responded {Quote by Monte in green}...."And most places I hunt have bad ground and an over-abundance of iron/ferrous targets, and it is possible, for tracking errors, and it does happen."

...But Monte, I'm not hunting in the Beach mode, it tracks into the iron and a bit positive to eliminate salt. I hunt in low mineral soil and the MX5 AutoTrac is doing it's job, IN THE COIN MODE which tracks down to the minus 93 to -98 range. I have hunted some nasty nail riddled sites in Kansas,,,Oklahoma and Texas, granted, these states are not as mineralized as Oregon and some western states that you hunt in. I have not had any tracking problems in the Coin mode in these states. I found out just how mineralized your area is by hunting Seaside beach Oregon with my Pantera.

I hope you do not take this post as an attack on your character, just pointing out some disagreement with your post.

Well I ended up misquoting the manual about AutoTrac in the Coin mode, it tracks mineralization down to -93 to perhaps -88, the extreme end of the ferrous range, not a problem in my soil. Whereas the Beach mode tracks from Salt at perhaps +4 down to and including pure ferrite at about -93. That is why I use Coin mode, no problem tracking to iron, at least in MY soil.
 
I simply used the statements on Pages 16 & 17 of the MX5 Owner's Manual and did a cut-and-past. I used red and blue to highlight statements that could have a bearing on the performance of the Auto-Trac circuitry in dense iron conditions, etc.

I just got to this post as it is now 1:37 AM here in Idaho as I traveled over to work a ghost town today [size=small](Friday)[/size] after the sun comes up and half-a-day Saturday before I head back home. After a late lunch I did work a couple of dirt pile sites hoping to find where they might have hauled a lot of material from sidewalk and street renovation last year, but Oregon Gregg & I were not successful. I wish I would have had an MX5 with me to demonstrate to Gregg some of the challenges working the material we were dealing with, consisting of a lot of ferrous targets, nails and other stuff, and non-ferrous junk in abundance. The Ground Phase ran from about '82' to '84' and the magnetic mineral Indications was a very high ferrous reading from the soil where it was metal-free and I could GB.

However, Gregg usually uses his White's M6 which could Auto-Trac or allow him to 'Lock' the GB setting, and even with the small 6½" Concentric coil, I believe he was able to note the difference in performance he was having with a different detector yesterday compared with his most-used M6. There is no such thing as a 'perfect' detector, as I often state, and I don't doubt that you're enjoying the MX5 in YOUR area and YOUR ground and the types of site challenges YOU face. I know it worked fine for me for a lot of the day-to-day Coin Hunting I did. But I did run into some issues in the very bad ground and dense concentrations of nails and other debris where I most often hunt, and I didn't have the same issues at the same sites using the MXT Pro with the GB 'locked' and not tracking to the ferrous junk and residue.

Best of success to you.

Monte
 
Hi Monte,

I'm not going to write for an hour just to prove my point, but the 3 paragraph portion of the MX5 manual that you cut and pasted, only 2 of them pertained to the Coin mode.The last paragraph printed in RED was about the BEACH mode, it's an entirely different tracking circuit and was confusing to me as to what you meant by that last paragraph.

...I can only surmise that when you inserted the Beach mode paragraph, it meant that you had to re-ground balance the MX5 in Coin mode... as explained in the Beach mode paragraph. I make ground balance adjustments periodically as I'm hunting when I can find a metal free patch of ground and on my manual ground balance detectors I do the same.

Thanks for your time
 
Me too. The MX5 is a great little machine that doesn't get the credit it's due.
 
You are correct that the MX5 manual I did a cut-and-paste of had the Beach mode which you don't use. I used it, on a few occasions, although not all that often. I used it on the occasions I made it to a salt water ocean beach, also when I worked the much saltier Great Salt Lake beach. I hunt a lot of stage stops, homesteads, ghost towns, etc., in desert locations with very alkaline soil, and when the salt/alkali gets wet, the Beach mode of the MXT 'family' of detectors can be helpful.

On the other hand, some of us hunt sites that have more sever ground minerals that call for a higher GB setting, and we might have ample Fe3O4 mineralization challenges to deal with. We can also have some rapidly changing ground mineral that varies a lot from site to site or even within a single locations. Due to 'bad ground' it is handy to have some form of Ground balance, be it a manual adjustment, an automated GB, or even an auto-tracking GB circuitry.

All of these detectors, priced from the $399.95 Coin GT to the $899.95 MXT All-Pro, feature the rapid Automated GB to get a quick adjustment to the ground mineral conditions at a site, as well as feature the quick-adjusting Auto-Trac® circuitry to help work at maintaining a functional GB. Of them all, my #1 favorite is the MXT Pro or MXT All-Pro because it provides more features and functions for the types of sites I hunt and challenges I encounter. A second choice for day-to-day Coin Hunting out of all of these is the MX5 which I relied on a great deal for much of my urban Coin Hunting work.

To this day I still tout the MX5 as being a good detector for most urban type hunting. Yes, I have used it in some non-urban environments, such as hunting the same ghost town and old renovation work material I just went to work last Thursday and Friday on a run to Idaho. I have used it and it worked okay, but it didn't work the best out of what I had, and it did give me some frustrations at times. Fortunately, I had my MXT All-Pro with me last year that I switched to and that allowed me better performance because I could adjust to handle some of those challenges.

What I encounter a lot at the sites I hunt are Hot Rocks or Cold Rocks [size=small](all a matter of where the detector's GB is set)[/size]; some quick little mineral slopes or abrupt changes in the ground make-up with pockets of higher ferrous content; and many of those old-use sites have a lot of discarded iron trash. From iron washers to iron nails, to old flat irons, doors and other parts of cast iron stoves and all sorts of iron parts associated with discarded stuff at high-use old railroad locations.

Some iron is a challenges because I am dealing with the man-made hunk of ferrous trash. But in many places, I find small bits and pieces of old, decayed or decaying pieces of iron that have left a lot of rusty residue and particles to deal with, so it's not just encountering long-discarded iron objects, but remains of them as they have ort are vanishing back to nature. This is one reason why I like to almost always use my MXT Pro modes in the 'Locked' GB and not auto-tracking. I do use the Auto-Trac® function when I am in the Threshold based All Metal Prospecting mode more often, but I otherwise prefer to use the MXT Pro, or the M6 or even the Coin GT and Prizm 6T when I used them, but relying on the automated GB to balance to a site, then 'Lock' and hold that GB setting, much the way a Tesoro Bandido or Bandido II µMAX or modified IDX Pro would serve me, with an adjusted and held GB setting.

I have used a salt beach adjustment range on different detectors through the years to help me deal with some other challenges I encounter, but I have been very grateful for having detectors that allowed me to to balance and hold a setting and not get too bothered in tough environments trying to track to ground mineral troubles. There are some more cut-and-paste examples from White's Coinmaster GT manual [size=small](and it is the same electronics that were in the Prizm 6T)[/size], as well as the MXT All-Pro which, in my opinion, is the most versatile and best all-purpose detector in White's current line-up. The parts highlighted in blue are what I am calling attention to that relate to the benefits the $399.95 Coin GT has with the Track Lock option, and it is even more defined in the MXT All-Pro manual that I also highlighted.


COINMASTER GT:

TRAC LOCK
The CoinGT has automatic ground tracking (AutoTrac®) which effectively nulls most ground mineralization. If the audio is chattery and reducing sensitivity doesn’t help, lock the
ground tracking with the Trac Lock button.
Pressing Trac Lock again immediately updates the ground tracking and returns to AutoTrac® mode.


MXT ALL-PRO:

TRAC Toggle-
The TRAC toggle selects the type of ground mineral rejection (ground balance) and automatic tracking to ground mineral changes best suited to the specific area. Three different positions for a specific ground condition (ground type) are provided.

The Ground position is used for normal or typical ground conditions. In this position the MXT Pro will quickly compensate for ground minerals in a few pumps of the search coil over the ground being searched and automatically track to any ground changes as you sweep the search coil during searching. For most operators the Ground position will be used for over 90% of your searching conditions. [size=small](NOTE: This is why the Auto-Trac ® works fine for most MX5 users in most areas they hunt.)[/size]

The Lock position monitors, however, doesn’t track to changing ground conditions. Man made iron decomposes to the point of tricking the Ground and Salt position tracking CONCERNING ALL MODES into thinking it is a mineralized part of the ground. This can create noise and instability during searching as the tracking system bounces radically up and down the scale, always searching for a good ground rejection setting and never able to find it. This makes it difficult for an operator to recognize worthwhile targets and/or run at the higher performance GAIN settings. In these conditions it is recommended to first go to the Ground or Salt position and pump the search coil over a clean area of ground representative of the area (free of man made iron) then switch the TRAC control to Lock. By doing so stability and success searching these trashy areas will improve dramatically.

Because ground changes are monitored during Lock, pressing and releasing the GROUND GRAB button, or switching back to either Ground or Salt tracking positions, updates to the appropriate ground setting (ongoing tracking) are virtually instantaneous.

Another example of when Lock would be used is if a particular mineralized rock or patch creates difficulties in searching an area. A hard rock mine for example with a low
mineralized quartz based rock and random high-mineralized magnetite rocks or patches. Place the TRAC control in the Ground position and balance “pump the search coil” over a representative sample of the high mineral rock or patches. Then Lock in that ground rejection setting “place the TRAC control in the Lock position”. The entire area can then be searched without the distraction of the inconsistencies the high mineral patches create.


The Salt position provides an extended ground balance and tracking range to compensate for conductive salts also called alkali. Ground rejection against salt/alkali slightly overlaps the lower end of the conductive target (metal) range. In other words if you ground balanced against significant salts, some loss of sensitivity to lower conducting metals (metals low on the VDI target scale) can be expected. ........


TRAC Summary-
The Ground TRAC setting is recommended for most searching conditions. Lock is used to hold a ground rejection setting that is first established in the Ground or Salt TRAC positions. Lock is recommended for areas that cause detector instability due to spotty extreme ground peculiarities such as a lot of decomposing man made iron or random but regular high mineral
pockets or rocks in a low mineral base.



Time and time again I have said and continue to say the MX5 is a very good, general-use, Coin Hunting detector for most people in most of the typical sites they will hunt. It is a fine pick for fun hunting in a mild or moderate ground mineral environment as well. It worked okay for me, too, in average hunting environments. My problem is that I am not always in mild or moderate ground, and I do not always pick sites that are free of hot rocks or discarded and decaying iron trash that leave decomposed crud to handle.

Reading the cut-and-past info from both the lower-cost Coin GT manual, and the up-line MXT All-Pro manual [size=small](and the MX5 is based on the MXT platform of design)[/size] I am not saying the MX5 is a bad detector because I like it and it works okay for many uses. I guess what I am asking, and what puzzled me from it's early introduction, was why did they incorporate a 'Lock Track' feature on the $399.95 Coin GT, the same circuit Prizm 6T that sold for $599.95 with their $100 off coupon, the $699.95 M6 and the $799.95 to $899.95 MXT to MXT Pro/All-Pro models ... but ignore including it as an optional setting on the MX5?

Yes, the MX5 is a great detector and a very capable Coin Hunting unit and even serves will as a Relic Hunting detector. I just felt it was an error to not include a 'Lock' option, and I also wish they would have relocated the headphone jack to the rear of the unit and not left it on the right-hand side of the control housing. I almost kept it in my detector arsenal, but it was replaced due to the features and performance of the Makro Racer, while the MXT All-Pro remained a favorite because it does have the added adjustments and functions that I enjoy having and using.

Monte
 
Thanks for your input Monte....

I'm glad I have ground conditions that allows me to use a machine like the MX5 without worrying about the ground conditions you describe.

Like you always say "there are no perfect metal detectors" but the MX5 comes close in my ground.
 
Hombre said:
Thanks for your input Monte....
You're welcome, if I got my thoughts and explanation clearer this time. I guess I could have taken more time to think through what I posted before. I knew what I wanted to say and what I have encountered, and just didn't get it explained well the first try or two.


Hombre said:
I'm glad I have ground conditions that allows me to use a machine like the MX5 without worrying about the ground conditions you describe.
I'm glad you do as well, and often wish I had better ground to hunt. I know when I used to travel to different states to do some detecting when I was younger and healthier, and then when I worked for Compass and they helped pay my way about the USA, I have had the greatest pleasure of being able to hunt in places where the ground mineral environment is so nice compared to many of the places I routinely hunt.

I've been in Florida, New Jersey, Texas, Oklahoma, Missouri, Kansas, Arkansas, Nebraska, and even parts of other states I have frequented more often out in the western states that have very decent ground to hunt. So often I was using the same detectors I employed on a daily basis and noted that I got a little better depth in those mellower places, and often less noise during a search, and better visual and audio tone info with models that offered those features on mid-depth to deeper targets.


Hombre said:
Like you always say "there are no perfect metal detectors" but the MX5 comes close in my ground.
So, true, and while I have used that statement for decades in my seminars as I explained the various detectors people used and/or were on the market, I often would be asked .. "Why do you use the XXXX?" [size=small](XXXX being any of the particular detectors that I had in my personal arsenal at the time.)[/size] The simple answer, and remember, I like 'simple,' was that the XXXX was a functional detector, provided ample performance for what I used it for, and it just happened to be a detector that I like and it works for me where I use it.

In the end, I like the MX5, and I am glad it is working out well for you, too. It is a good example, in my opinion, of the right direction for the White's engineering team to be headed. Using some of the proven MXT Pro circuitry technology, improving on the Tone, target Volume and other features, and in a comfortable package and working toward the better price range of affordable and versatile detectors. I gave up on the high-dollar detector race years ago and prefer a simple, functional, performance based detector(s) that is in the mid-priced range. The MX5 is one of many today that offers that.

Monte
 
Monte, I may be wrong on this but the MX5 ACTS like it is a slow retuning gb-which I think is even better than manual or lock because I don't have to worry about the gb setting.:confused:
 
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