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hunting a trasy park

rseasy1

New member
I found a park near by that I don't think has been hit much I'v gotten two washington quarters and a merc dime and six wheats from on about 8 hours hunting time over three different visits.
This park is very trashy in spots .I'm using the 10.5 inch 7.5 KHZ. coil,My good targets have all been in the four inch depth range.
I'm hunting in disc four with only the negative numbers disced out,sensitivity is at 24 and GB is 14. Threshold is at five and it's constantly blanking out.
What would be a good sensitvity to run at to not try to detect over about five or six inches deep , I'm thinking if I keep the sens down I'll miss alot of the trash.
I'm useing a very very slow sweep speed and picking the signals out.
Should I try the smaller stock concentric coil? or just keep doing what I'm doing?
 
I'll give this one a shot, and if someone has different thoughts they can post 'em.

First, if your GB phase number is only 14 with a 10
 
I hunt a park that sounds extremely similar to the one you are hunting. I have found a shield nickel, Barber Quarter, several Barber Dimes,, silver mercs and Rosie's and lots of Indians and wheats plus lots of clad. I have been exclusively using the 10.5DD 7.5. I hunt in multi tones, and only -numbers +2,4,6 disc out. I can normally hunt in sens 20-26 without a problem. What is different is our GB readings. Mine is normally between 25-45 without any adjustment. My threshold is barely audible. I have had a silver drought lately but the park is so big, I am hesitant to use a smaller coil. Like you, I have slowed down my pace and swing and I seem to be getting a few more good signals on slopes that I avoided hunting before.
I am also considering griding smaller plots to hunt and switching to my 6" DD 18.5 in these smaller areas. Hope this helps.
HH
Chuck
 
Have you tried cutting back on the length of your swing? Doing so allows you to listen to fewer targets making it easier to identify the good ones. What you could do upon reaching a trashy spot is to just cut back on your sensitivity until you notice a difference in the amount of trash you are listening to. What once worked for me in a small spot that was literally "all trash" was to reject everything out except for the coins I was trying to find, by doing so I was able to pull several dimes from that area. Of course I was using the small 6" DD HF coil at the time. I've also read that you will achieve better results by rejecting each TID number individually in the All-Metal mode rather than using something such as the preset Pattern 2 program to do so.
 
rseasy1 said:
I found a park near by that I don't think has been hit much I'v gotten two washington quarters and a merc dime and six wheats from on about 8 hours hunting time over three different visits.
This park is very trashy in spots .I'm using the 10.5 inch 7.5 KHZ. coil,My good targets have all been in the four inch depth range.
I'm hunting in disc four with only the negative numbers disced out,sensitivity is at 24 and GB is 14. Threshold is at five and it's constantly blanking out.
What would be a good sensitvity to run at to not try to detect over about five or six inches deep , I'm thinking if I keep the sens down I'll miss alot of the trash.
I'm useing a very very slow sweep speed and picking the signals out.
Should I try the smaller stock concentric coil? or just keep doing what I'm doing?


Hi rseasy.

By the end of the week I should have a new thread written up entitled "The Teardrop Principle". Have a look at it when it appears, as it may give you a just a couple of extra tips that help me out daily.

It will cover how I start off in heavy trash, and things like running a negative ground balance and matching the sensitivity to the balance, on both hardpacked shallow ground and deep dirt, when you want to decrease the depth of the detector but still have capability of hitting well in the first four or so inches. Plus a bit more stuff to boot. Which may suit you as well, because some of those 'blanks' you are recieving are actually good deep targets that are just under the maximum depth when running in the notching mode, so I will explain a few of the tricks I learnt about hitting on those without any notching, and running with a positive balance.
I'll be including a few pics of the hunt to match the post.
 
The stock concentric coil is nice, but has a little too much footprint in trashy situations.
Although the 10,5" DD separates very nicely, you've often got trash and good target in the same footprint.

I really like my 10x5" DD elliptical coil, but being high frequency it does tend to be a surface coil.
Coiltek has brought out a few new coils which should have great depth and good target separation.

Anyway trashy parks need to be cleaned to get down to the goodies. But keep it fun.
On various visits I up sensitivity and down the discrimination. That means I always come back with a few goodies and a bit of trash.

Next run around the spot the trash removed unmasks other potential good stuff.
 
Argyle, I am very interested in reading about your "The Teardrop Principle". Thanks in advance for sharing!
You make a very good point regarding ground balance..........as I've mentioned, I like to hunt with a positive ground balance as it "fools" the X-TERRA into thinking the ground is more mineralized than it really is. This allows the X-TERRA to hunt "deeper" than it might using a "properly adjusted" ground balance. On the contrary, running with a negative ground balance will "fool" the detector into thinking the ground is less mineralized than it really is. This results in the X-TERRA not being able to hunt as "deep", as it might using a properly adjusted ground balance. For those not familiar with positive or negative ground balance...... raising the ground phase number above what is "proper" is actually implementing a negative ground balance. While lowering the ground phase number is implementing a positive ground balance. The beauty of the 705 is that we can incorporate a negative or positive ground balance offset into a tracking mode, allowing that offset to be continual and "on the fly". Again, I'm anxious to read argyle's post on "The Teardrop Principle". HH Randy
 
I have to correct my last post, you "cannot" reject any T.I.D. numbers in the All-Metal mode, only in Patterns 1, 2 & 3. Earlier today when I tried to set up my own private "coin program" in All-Metal, the XT-70 would not allow me to do so. As a result I switched to Pattern 1 and just left 10 thru 14 and 36 thru 44 open just to see how well it would work on copper pennies and above. It actually really quieted things down because of not hitting on near as much foil or pull tabs as I usually do and surprisingly today's amount $7.77 was almost exactly what I averaged at this site the previous 3 times there ($7.44). One thing that really did go up today using this program was my nickel count (13), where as I had only found 23 nickels total in the 3 previous trips to the same site. Trying to eliminate the dreaded zincolns worked almost to perfection as all 12 pennies were 1982 and earlier including a "55" wheat. Needless to say you might as well forget about finding any gold using this set up...
 
Thanks all for the advice I revisited the park today and have determined that I think it is virgin (can you believe that one) I pulled three mercs and one rosie and four more wheats.
Making a total of seven silvers and eight wheats , this park is fairly small and not shown on google earth as a park.
I followed chuckciao advice in the more trashy pockets and disced out +2,4,6 and all the negative numbers.
Then when the signals started to calm down I started to follow longhairs advice and went to the all metal and used the very very slow sweep speed and worked the signals from different directions
to try to get the better signal from a different side.I managed to pick out my 25th silver coin (1942 D merc) with alot of trash in the same spot it was just about an inch under the surface.
I had the idea I had read about Randy writeing about the negative and positive off set on the GB, and the threshold but have not grasped the concept yet on that on and will have to reread that.
I'm looking forward to seeing the thread Argyle (The tear drop principle). I am wondering what Argyle means by matching the sensitivey to the GB. Thats interesting and will be looking for the thread.
The x-terra ran great and I had the best silver day I've ever had reguardless of the having to sift through all the trash and I'm not done there yet.
And by the way wares my barber I got seateds standing and walking libertys washingtons and rosies but no barber yet just wanted to toss that one in!
Thanks again for all the advice.
 
Hi Randy, how are things.

I was so glad they gave us back full control with the ground balance offset. Probably the best feature on the 705's I think.
I was pleased with the balance on the 305's factory pre-set too, very close to 30's pre-set, probably with an edge to the 30 being on the positive side, but both machines act very differently with the 305's new armoury. I have to admit it came as a bit of a shock to find out the detector was so more advanced than the 30's. I had to quickly fall back on the Teardrop Principal after taking it to my usual haunts thinking I could just walk on from where I left off a few days earlier.

I think the ground balancing behavior of particular detectors has always thrown people off over the years. It may have been a mixture of detectors with rather sloppy manual balance that would drift all over the place, a lack of pragmatic explanation in detector manual's, and the continuation of producing pre-set only ground balance units. I'm not too sure. But as we know, it's really one of the easiest of settings to master, and the most important.

My way of explaining it, while theoreticaly skew wiff, may make a bit of pragmatic sense. I hope it does anyway.

On an air-test (one of the worst things we can do with a detector), both above and below the coil, a coin will hit at the same distance. The frequency gets kicked out into the air then becomes 'fluffy'. Regardless of where the ground balance setting is.

By placing the coil on the ground, the frequency that's going downwards, is held together by the ground. Above the coil it virtually remains the same, there's nothing to keep holding it in, so it still gets out to escape and move around.
But when we start to run the ground balance positive by increasing the - pad, we put more of the frequency's power downward, asking the XTerra to see and interpret more. Fooling it just like you say Randy, and making it work for us like a machine should, and not letting it dictate the terms to us.
With the unit running positive balance, we need to help it by giving it as much + sensitivity to use as we can, while remaining stable enough to correctly make ID tones.
We want those deep on-edge coin signals to come through with more certainty about them, instead of them coming through as deep triple-hits, changing tones or iron hits.
When we would work very hardpacked ground that a coin simply can't work it's way down through, and can't even get on-edge because the density of the ground keeps leveling it out so in the end they just give up and lay flat, we would throw the ground balance on to the negative side with the + pad, dropping sensitivity along with it, so it makes an even match going into the ground.
The reason being, we only want to hear and cherry pick those good signals down to four inches max, and do not want nor need to hear deeper targets, iron falseing, or any ground-noise feedback to annoy us. Only leaving us to make distinction between good hits and junk at the depths we have chosen to detect to.

Along the way, checking the odd target in both cases, for slight improvements we can make to signals and making sure we are getting either a very deep or very shallow depth.

And that's where The Teardrop Principle comes in.
I still do it at least twice a week, mainly in new trashy spots I'm not used to yet. When I need to both hear and see the level of all targets, both ferrous and non-ferrous, to gain a small understanding of where the tones will be taking me, and at which depth the ground matrix holds them, and why I always run in tones so I'm not notching out or losing depth over the on-edge coins. As well as running the most beneficial balance I can before the ground changes on me.

I meant to start taking pictures today, as the on-ground and dug-ground pics will make it easier to explain things, but I've been so caught up in an area that I ran out of time, so it'll be a day or two before I can post the thread up.
Every little bit helps, so I'm expecting everyone to post their procedures directly on to the thread too. No one gets out of here alive!
I just hope I can write it as well as you do Randy.
 
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