Hunting sites illegally . . .. what it means to the hobby (current news story)

[Andy Sabisch]

Here's an interesting story that JUST came to light and unfortunately shows that a highly visible minority can have some far reaching ramifications for the rest of us. I was told about this pair of occurrences by several state and federal archeologists that I know and wanted to pass it along here . . . . . .

If you know of someone breaking the law and collecting artifacts illegally, drop a dime and keep the rest of us from being branded with the same negative stamp.

I welcome any thoughts on the articles

http://thesga.org/2010/01/stiff-fines-for-site-looting-handed-down-in-burke-county/


Andy Sabisch

 

[jeff & Maria]

n/t

 

[morelic55]

Yea, But most often we get lumped in the mix with these knuckle heads, an artifact is a artifact and we have to run damage control to protect ourselves

 

[dewcon4414]

I think Jeff is right... good thing no metal detectors were used. This was pretty extreme and they deserved what they got. Andy, have you seen the U-tube of the coins found in a silver box during a major hunt? Im all for showing off my finds.... but id be careful about such advertisement. Owners do change their minds. I think a great point was made... that any items found are the property of the OWNER. There are also a minority that feel anything found of historic value should be taken out of the hands of even the property owner. I dont. Money drives the train even for museums.

Dew

 

[Andy Sabisch]

I've posted this before but the vast majority of us do the right thing and then some . ... returning lost rings, helping police departments find crime scene evidence, working with historians to save history before progress paves it over . . . . . . but often that is never communicated because we tend to be a group that does not think what we did is worth spreading the word about.

If we do more in terms of PR, the hobby will benefit as will the individual. Over the years I have returned more than 50 class rings and in many of the cases, I've called the local newspaper, told the local beat reported about it and they have done a short human interest piece about the ring being returned. I still do not accept a reward but anyone reading the story sees two things. First, that metal detectorists took the time to track the owner down and return it and second, they see me in the article. I have had people call me asking if I could help them find some lost item from these articles - in many cases inviting me onto some property that I had either not thought of hunting or gotten around to try and ask for permission. The same holds true with working with the police. I have been on a number of crime scene searches with clubs and in several cases, we have had a newspaper story done on the effort. You can be sure that in those where what we found helped the police with their case that if someone complains about metal detector usage down the road that the police will at least start out on your side and can help influence law makers before something gets enacted.

This event did not involve detectors but there have been several in the past few years where hunters with detectors were caught in National Park battelfields at 0300 with camo paint on their faces . . . . kind of hard to say you did not know it was illegal!

If we all do some positive PR in our local areas, we can promote a positive image that will help the entire hobby down the road . . . . . repealing a law once enacted is a hard thing to do - being proactive is a whole lot easier.

Andy

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Andy, when I first read your post, I was going to reply that it did not mention metal detecting. But I changed my mind, thinking someone would obviously jump to conclusion that I was suggesting that we md'rs just continue to float under the radar, don't ask dumb questions, not seek sanctions (lest we merely get "no's" because we drew attention to ourselves, etc...). So I changed my mind and didn't point out that it wasn't about detecting. But now I see that Jeff & Dew were the "bad guys" to point that out So I'll chime in then and push this envelope:

YES, if we all "thought about it long enough and hard enough", we should/would probably just hang up metal detecting, or stick our own front yards (with our wive's permission of course). Because I guarantee you, that if you "start down that road" (wondering what you can do on public land ......... ANY public land), you will certainly eventually hit someone high enough up the bureaucratic ladders, that will tell you "no" to anything. I mean, even if you got a "yes" from someone, it merely means you didn't give them the right mental image. Ie.: be sure to mention ARPA, indian bones, holes, jewelry that you intend to keep, "valuable coins" that belong to the "public", yet you intend to put on your own mantle-place, etc.... I mean, if you looked long enough and hard enough, I bet we all could preclude ourselves from ever venturing out to even the most innocuous of places (a park sandbox). So oddly, sometimes the best tactic is not seeking sanctions, and not worrying. To do so may only become a self-fullfilling prophecy. Ie.: better that we're thought of an innocent geeks in the sandbox, merely looking for MODERN pennies, right? (yup, that's right. All I find is modern pennies )

 

[Andy Sabisch]

Tom (and others),

I appreciate the dialogue but the difference between the pair in this article and the vast majority of the rest of us is that they knew they were on private property without permission and removing artifacts for what they could sell them for . . . . .

Hunting public ground for the items we do and knowing what restrictions might exist is what sets us apart from that mindset. If you knew an area was off limits to detecting, would you go in under the cover of darkness? I think not.

Knowing the restrictions and abiding by them is the way most of us operate . . . . . the problem is when the few violate the laws, it gets the front page treatment. By promoting our positive actions, we can temper the public's perception of what we do.

Andy

 

[sasquache]

n/t

 

[John LA]

I would like to see artifacts dug up legally rather just left in the ground to deteriorate. Even stuff dug illegal will show up in museums in a few years. It's hard to see how stuff left in the ground will benefits anyone.
Start throwing stones.

 

[silverfinder]

I would like to see artifacts dug up legally rather just left in the ground to deteriorate. Even stuff dug illegal will show up in museums in a few years. It's hard to see how stuff left in the ground will benefits anyone.
Start throwing stones.

this just is not right on any level, but it is your right I guess

 

[Howard Berry]

These are desperate times we are living in. I don't hunt anywhere without written permission. There are a couple of fellows that were recently caught here in Ohio for digging in a burial mound. I lived next to the mound site for 20 years and called the police when I saw someone digging. We had permission to walk the property and recover surface finds only. These idiots had a trench dug. Now the entire area is off limits to everyone at all times. This stuff made the front page of our paper and was on the news for days. Events like these make it harder to obtain permission. I hope the boys from Georgia get what they deserve. Haven't heard what is going to happen to the Ohio guys yet but the Feds are involved.

 

[dewcon4414]

I can see Johns point there silver... well as it comes to coins and relics, not antiquites. Some of the most expensive coins sold were dug by detectors. Same with civil war relics. These were going to be lost to history. What we must remember is the ethics required by us that hunt. There will always be thieves out there using what ever means necessary for their benefit. I noticed an article about the flooding of fake coins into the US as well as fake grading holder.... even the graders said hey its just expected and we have to find ways to deal with it. We have an obligation to our hobby to police our own. Its odd that everyone knows of these places even on their own land, but we dont let the government know so they can be collected... why? Maybe partally because the government wont care until someone tries to dig them. They have a nasty habit of wanting them then. Dont get me wrong... those that dig them illegally dont know how to do it properly. Here we are again.... we all get the blame.

Dew