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I tried a 13" ultimate yesterday and today

gear box

New member
And I'm not too sure what to think. My first impression after using it for just a couple minutes was how light and easy it was to swing. it felt good on the shaft. The next thing was that for me and the way I like to hunt (nice and slow) was that it covered the ground more efficiently, I watched where the front of the coil was and how far the rear of the coil moved foreward with my slow approach to detecting. The rear 1/3 to 1/4 of the coil overlapped the previous coil path, making overlapping the coil swings very easy and not really having to think about overlapping and still just puttering along. That was ok for my style. I do think it is a bit chattery over the Tornado coil but I have a hard time making myself turn down the sens. Maybe I need to get over that and just do it. The other thing I'm concerned about and this could just be me and I need to change my pinpointing way's is I pinpoint in disc and hardly ever use pp mode. on account that there is usually to much other stuff close by to make it effective. I noticed that when pinpointing as I pulled the coil towards me the the target would abruptly end you knew that the target was right there in front of the coil but the width of the target response was so huge it could of been anywhere within the coil diameter that became very apparent when turning 90 deg.. I found out that the size of the target is very large and a lot louder than my Tornado, making narrowing it down a little difficult. I was alway's off to the left side. Things down to 3'' or so were quite loud and used up what looked like half of the coil width. I didn't find anything deep so this could actually be a good thing for people like myself who hunt exclusively for old coins that could be deep but not all old coins are deep. I've got access to this coil for awhile so maybe I will get a couple of deep targets to see how it does. I'm thinking it will be deeper, if not it will at least make those targets that don't sound off to well with other coils a little louder with this one. I also noted how crisp the responses were without any fuzzy lead in to the best tone of the target and I actually thought this as soon as I put my quarter on the ground to calibrate the meter. One sweep with the Ultimate and the meter said 180. Didn't have to do 3 or 4 sweeps like I did with tornado. I did find a few good things though. I found my first ever shield nickle no date though and a 1903 Barber dime a merc and a small silver ring. i'll get some pictures in a couple day's.
Good luck Gary
 
Gary,great report,this coil has caught my attention and thought about picking one up to try,but too many irons in the fire right now.This gives me an idea and what to expect form the 13 inch coil.Appreciate letting us know your opinion of the 13" Ultimate.Thanks Ron
 
Great report! Thanks for posting it. And congradulations on the finds. I'm still looking for my first sheild nickel. Dug a ton of Vs, buffalos, and war nickels, but no shield for some reason thus far.

For sure the Ultimate is easier to cover ground with it, even over the 12x10 a bit, so it might be the better option for people trying to grid out large areas faster. I too, like you, find I don't seem to have to concentrate as much not to miss the ground in spots in front of me while I work the coil. I was suspicious this might just be a perception of the eye thing due to it's white color and size, so I tested the width detection of the Ultimate and it seems to see a target all the way to the edge of the coil, which in some respects is a good thing for covering ground faster, but I'm not sure how it'll compare in left/right separation to the SEF.

My Youtube nail masking test of both coils shows the Ultimate has very good left/right separation for a coil of it's size. I couldn't really see it doing any worse than the 12x10 at the various tests, but just the same I suspect just the unique shape of the SEF that really compresses the width of the DD line probably will give it the edge on that, but for a 13" wide coil the Ultimate is shocking me in it's separation abilities left/right wise. It's only 12 & 1/2" long at it's longest axis point but is a true 13" wide. But coverage with a DD coil is more relied on it's length than it's width. The Ultimate in reality is only covering 1/2" more ground per sweep like a wiper blade length wise. The left/right extra coverage of 1.5" on each side of the Ultimate (for a total of 13" versus 10 for the 12x10), in reality is only giving you that extra coverage at the end of each sweep if you know what I mean.

The louder voice/more crisp response is also what I see. The 12x10 has a crisper/louder voice than the 10" Tornado, but the Ultimate is for sure louder than the 12x10 even, but I keep the volume all the way down and even then I can hear the 12x10 at depth no problem.

It does just "feel good" on the shaft, don't it? It's the same weight as the 12x10 but darn if it don't feel a bit lighter to me. I'm thinking it's round shape makes it more balanced?

Far as the chatter, I found the Ultimate no less stable than the 10" Tornado, but I only adjust my sensitivity to where it's just a tad unstable when I hunt with any of my coils. Too much chatter or nulling will miss targets. For a coil of it's size the Ultimate is very stable IMO. I've ran it over some pretty bad soils and sands and it's rock solid. Not quite as rock solid as the 12x10 but very good just the same. Main issue I found is that it often has to have the sensitivity lowered than the 12x10 to prevent nulling out on ground minerals. Not a lot lower, but lower. That would only be expected since it's taking in more ground matrix. It also seems a bit more prone to EMI and even if the ground isn't mineralized I've had to lower it a bit more than the 12x10 for that reason. But I have been able to run the Ultimate at full sensitivity at a low EMI/low minerals site and it only had a tad of instability to it. I could easily hunt with that, because that's the slight edge I'll ride a coil. Being able to run at full blast sensitivity at least at some sites tells me it's a very stable and well built coil.

Yep, I've found that using the tip as my normal routine to PP in disc is a bit harder, but I suspect with time it'll be just as easy to do as it is on my 12x10. I've been practicing using the center of the coil to PP on the beach to learn faster how to do that with both my 12x10 and the Ultimate. Sometimes I use PP for that and sometimes I use disc, but even in disc I'm finding it's pretty easy to get a good centering on the target with both coils and the center of the coil. Loudest response seems to be right in front of the shaft by about an inch or two maybe (still figuring that out with both of them).

Using PP mode and the center of the coil too some for that and it also seems pretty easy with both coils. I just wiggle forward until the loudest hit, then past it to be sure that's the loudest spot, then back to that loudest spot again, and then I rotate 90 degrees and do it again and both coils in disc or PP seem right on at using the center for the very little experience I have using the center of a DD coil to find targets. The beach makes the learning process so much faster.

But for sure using the tip of the ultimate seems more broad to me to PP with (at least in disc). The 12x10 always puts the target right between the "V" shape at the edge of the coil at the V's base. I suspect the Ultimate will be easier to do that with practice though. Just like I'm getting fooled by iron with it more where as when I re-check the same marked targets I thought might be deep wheats or something with the 12x10 I could obviously tell they were iron. Once again though I think it's just a matter of not knowing the traits of the Ultimate yet.

When I had my Explorers and the stock 10" coil I always used the center of the coil. The Explorer II was terrible with that coil at PPing. The Sun Ray probe was a must have for me to track down targets because of that. The SE is much better though thanks to it's special PPing software and also probably because of the Pro Coil. I suspect a 12x10 on the Explorer II would probably enhance it's center PPing over the stock 10" coil, or at the very least using the base of the V at the tip would make it much better at it. But once I went onto the GT I never really tried using the center of the coil. I heard it was much better at it but just the same I just used the tip on both the stock 10" Tornado and the SEF coils. Only recently, spending a lot of time at the beach, did I figure it'd be a good time to learn to use the center in either PP or disc to PP and it's not hard at all. For sure more easy than my Explorer IIs were at that.

Only reason I decided I better learn using the center is because sometimes I'll get a very deep signal on land that the tip of the coil doesn't seem to see, and when I try checking it with the tip from two different 90 degree angles I can't narrow down where it's at. Even a DD coil will have slightly more depth at it's very center, so I figured I'd better learn using the center like I should so I can PP those super deep ones with the ability of the center of the coil to see a little deeper. I've dug many real deep targets that the tip of the coil could easily see, but there have been some that I've had such issues trying to find with the tip in the same spot from two angles that I just gave up on them.

That always bothered me, because I don't like leaving any deep target behind once I'm interested in it. And these were even targets I was trying to PP in disc, so no issues with PP mode dragging me off target or with it being a false coin hit from iron that will often PP off center of where disc says it is. That's one of the reasons why I don't trust using PP mode for PPing targets I found in disc, because I don't want it talking me out of a coin that might just be laying near iron by dragging me off center to indicate it's an iron false.

Once again great report! I just hope I can get my hands on this coil down the road if for some reason Detech stops making a Sovereign version or something. There aren't many of the BBS versions out there yet, so if Detech stops production it might be very hard to find a used one. Just look at how hard it is to find a 12x10 used even though there are a ton of them out there. People hold onto them because of how good of coils they are.
 
Update on the ultimate. I gave it back to my buddy after using it for 4 day's. At this time I don't think I will buy one for a variety of reasons.
1. EMI. I didn't mention it in my first report because I wanted to try it again and be fair about it, I had a lot of trouble with stability with EMI the first time around. I wanted to play with the sensitivity somemore to see if I could get it to settle down. I used the Ultimate at a park where I had some problems with EMI using my Tornado up by a band shell but I could tame the Tornado, not so much with the Ultimate. A few weeks ago I dug a gold ring in a small spot which was quite a way's away from the band shell with the Tornado so I decided to revisit the spot with the Ultimate to see if I missed something, but the EMI was really bad, I turned down the sensitivity to almost the lowest it would go and it still chattered. I then put it in automatic which helped a lot but still got a some chirping. I held the coil in the air and it chattered continuosly. And this is where the Tornado had no problems at all but I couldn't tame the Ultimate. So the question might be, am I gaining anything with a 13" coil by having to reduce the sensitivity to it's lowest setting to just be able to detect even with marginal stability or go with the stock coil with a higher sens. and just swing away? I also found EMI in one other spot but not so bad that I couldn't get through it.
2. Physical size and pinpointing. I'm pretty sure Critter will disagree with this but I don't like how you really have to work at pinpointing. In the area's that I hunt in parks, fairgrounds and schools there is enough other stuff in the ground where a 13' coil becomes a little large, and compounding that is the huge target signal that you get with the Ultimate. I found out early that when dragging the coil towards you to PP I almost always got another target inside the coil forcing me to move to another spot. I did find that if you moved the coil over the target real slow, PPing was much easier as I pulled the coil towards me it seemed like the target response got smaller the closer it got to the tip almost pointed like an arrow and you could visualize where it was pretty easy, it was alway's in the notch on the front of the coil, but this was on shallow targets. I never did get a deep target the jury is still out on that one. This may be a real good beach coil though.
3.The coil cover. I took the cover off when cleaning up the coil and was pretty surprised to see all the dirt under it. There were blades of grass up to 1/2" long and a lot of fine powdery dirt in there. So anybody buying the ultimate will need to be mindful about cleaning it out or risk falsing.
4. So for now for my kind of hunting I'm going to stick with my Tornado. I'm not going to rule out the Ultimate totally. I want to give the 12x10 a go and if they become no longer available then maybe a Sunray 12".
Good luck Gary
 
I had heard this before, but now that I heard it again I wont get one because that is the last thing I need and will stick with the S-12 of Sun Ray as I know I have no problem with that coil, in fact I find it impressive if I want a big coil.I been using my stock 10 inch Tornado coil and my 8 inch Coinsearch the last few years, but before the 10 inch Tornado coil the S-12 was on most of the time.
 
My buddy let me use his 13" for a day in a open farm field a week ago I had a lot of trouble with stability with EMI even in the high wind 20 to 30 mph very unstable all day , the next day same windy conditions but i had my S-12 on perfect !! stable as a rock in high wind , i dont think i will get a 13" just do my best to find a SEF 10x12 . Jim
 
Thanks Rick and Jim that's what I wanted to hear on the S12. That coil sounds like a good one to be used as the big coil. I also like the fact that it's good ol U.S.A. But I'm not sure I even need a big coil anymore after using the Ultimate. The coin's I did find could of been found with the Tornado or any coil as far as that goes. None were deep. But after you feel you dug all the shallow to mid-range coins maybe a big coil would open your spot up again for a couple more good ones.The Tornado is a darn good coil.By the way, how does the S12 compare depth wise to the Tornado?
Thanks Gary
 
Gary both the Tornado and S-12 coils are about even so far in depth each found large coppers around 8 inches each in a farm field i was in all metal mode so if there is anything else deeper i should find it my sens was just out of auto , the only advanage i see is the S-12 covers a little more ground and it is lighter and just as stable as the 10" , i picked out a 1897 Barbar dime yesterday at 6 inches with the S-12 no problem it rang up a good 180 on my meter at 6 inches . HH Jim
 
Thanks Jim I've found some Barber's as well this summer around the 6 inch mark using the Tornado and at least a couple of them were on edge and although I could hear the high tone the signal wasn't the best but it wasn't bad either for a small coin on edge. So in your opinion, how do you feel the loudness would be with the Sunray verses the Tornado in a situation like this? And how is it in it's ability to seperate a coin from surrounding trash? Rick what do you think also? Anybody else have an opinion on the S12?
Thanks Gary
 
First thing I was ask to do the Field test on the S-12 for park use, been using the 8 inch coinsearch before as it has always did great for me. First thing I was worried about the trash with this big of a coil, but it ran great and it did a good job separating coins from trash. My Friend James was there with is Explorer XS with the stock coil so we compared signals too and there was only 1 signal he got I wouldn't have dug that was good, he had several he thought was good, but the Sovereign with the S-12 didn't get a signal as it was more nulling and these were all nails. I don't remember changing my sensitivity setting on the S-12 either over my 8 inch Coinsearch coil which is at around 10 o'clock position.I felt I got around a good 1-2 inches deeper signals too.
Now on the second park which is a hard one to detect as there is places where there is a lot of nails so there is a lot more nulling, but did pick out a few Wheaties we had missed before.I worked along one sidewalk which everyone has worked and got a odd signal that didn't sound like trash and dug a good 8 inches to find a small bus token and about 2 inches away was a nice buffalo nickle and there was also a nail about 3 inches away too, so it did impress me and I had to get one myself only to let other use it and like it and buy it from me and had to order another one.
I never put it up against the 10 inch Tornado coil that came on my Elite or GT so I can compare these 2 coils as I had got a Explorer and got the X-12 for it so never got a S-12 back again, but always say I will as I will always have a Sovereign.
 
Thanks Rick very good information. If I decide to get a larger coil I will for sure take a good look at the S12. It's nice to hear that it is stable and pretty good in trashy areas. I have an area at the end of that old fairgrounds that has a lot of nails and bits of iron in it. I just put my 8" coinsearch on to give it a go this wknd. That sounds like a good test for the S12 also. Again a big thanks
Gary
 
gear box said:
Thanks Jim I've found some Barber's as well this summer around the 6 inch mark using the Tornado and at least a couple of them were on edge and although I could hear the high tone the signal wasn't the best but it wasn't bad either for a small coin on edge. So in your opinion, how do you feel the loudness would be with the Sunray verses the Tornado in a situation like this? And how is it in it's ability to seperate a coin from surrounding trash? Rick what do you think also? Anybody else have an opinion on the S12?
Thanks Gary

Gary thanks for the honest post on your own testing.

I have and use an S12 for my Sov, its an excellent coil that is very stable. For most situations in trashy sites the smaller the coil the better so less is being seen. Remember the Sov is a slow reset detector so its even more critical. Now with the widescan coils you can seperate up better than with a concentric, but your still putting down a larger footprint with a larger coil. So given most situations the 10" Tornado is going to seperate better than the S12, just like the S8 coil will seperate better than either the 10" Tornado or S12.
I find the 8" size to be about right for most trashy sites, you get great seperation as well as depth.
Ive got the WOT,S12 and 12X10 coils so I doubt the ultimate coil would be worth buying.
 
GB,

Thank you for your honest in-depth report on the 13" Ultimate. - Jim
 
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