ID help from military relic buffs...Rev war? 1812?? Newer?

[WessThompson]

alright guys. I have asked on every forum imaginable, from the UK to Canada...and nothing.

Someone out there must know what the heck this thing is!?

I found this piece at a site that turned up military artifacts dating from the revolutionary war, to the war of 1812. All British items....including a navy button.

So...I am guessing it's British Navy...or Royal Marines.

The object itself is 1 3/4 inches wide. The back appears to be filled with lead or pewter. Much like the old rosettes that can be found. That being said, I have not heard of a naval rosette before. As you can see, it retains much of it's original gilt.

I have had a couple of suggestions from some folks...but nothing concrete. Just guesses.

It was found at a site in Ontario, Canada...on the shores of Lake Ontario. I have included pics of both sides.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/Zester76/DSC04313.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/Zester76/DSC04311.jpg

HELP!!!

Thanks...Wess

 

[Va Dave]

n/t

 

[ThatCannonballGuy]

Wess, I am not as knowledgable about Foreign and RevWar-1812War emblems as I am about civil-war-era emblems. But, that being said, I'll give it a shot, because VADave has called my name. ;-)

The particular "style" of this item's emblem suggests 1812-era British to me.

With these "Fouled Anchor" type emblems, the rope's exact POSITION and LENGTH is very important. Note that on this one the rope's end extends below the anchor's left-side fluke. The first exact match I found in Albert's button-book is a post-war (US Naval Reserve button for Chief Petty Officers. See Albert's button number NA131.

But that button does not have the encircling ring of overlapping "scales" (or belt-tips, or epaulettes, or whatever they are). An extremely similar emblem appears in the Albert book in the "British Naval History" section as BNH17a (see photo and remarks on page 90). Albert says BNH17a is a post-1827 two-piece variety of British Naval Surgeon's button. But BNH17a has a rope-border, not overlapping scales - or whatever they are).

Note that the State Seal of Rhode Island buttons from the 1840s onward contain a similar "Fouled Anchor" emblem. Particularly, there is also the RevWar-era Rhode Island buttons numbered RI2a and 2av in Albert's button-book.

I think we can exclude the Texas Navy's fouled-anchor emblem. ;-) Also the US Army Transport button's emblem (Albert GO5 and GO6), and the US Merchant Marine Service (GO26b), all of which have the exact form of fouled-anchor that's on your relic.

In summary, I think the emblem's border (the circle of overlapping scales or whatever) is going to be the most-important clue which will eventually lead you to its correct ID.

Regards,
TheCannonballGuy (PCGeorge)

 

[WessThompson]

n/t

 

[WessThompson]

it is much appreciated. I too have Alberts book...and although I did refer to it while researching this piece...I did not even think to look at U.S. buttons to find a similar anchor.

Although I did find some close matches on British buttons...there was always just something wrong about them.

I do agree that my item looks most similar to NA131A

It has the same lined background...the rope starts and ends in the exact position, and extends the same length beyond the bottom of the anchor.

The other important thing...or maybe not...is the eye at the top of the anchor. Mine is in a downward position.

Based on all of these things, it sure looks most similar to NA131A

The only problem, as you mentioned...is the lack of scales or buckles around the perimiter as you suggested. Perhaps I should be looking at American items instead.

Thanks for your time and your help
I will keep you guys informed if I find anything more out

Wess

 

[FrontierWest]

I wanted to comment earlier, but It sure looks like a rosette. Did an admiral ride a horse in parades and such? Research those possibilities..especially if it is an early one.

John

 

[WessThompson]

I'll have to look into that one John. I'm researching a ton here, and keep coming up empty handed. Everything from pics, to letters, notes, books, etc. Perhaps I will never know.

Thanks for the response

Wess

 

[Anonymous]

Being made of stamped brass and having a lead filled back, I strongly suspect it is harness decoration or more commonly called "rosette." Don't let the small size fool you; many upper level officer's horse tack was covered in such decoration. However, it is just as possible it's use was applied to other items; telescope case (spy glass), courier case, even a hat pin. From the construction we can say with certainty it's a product of vintage times, most likely pre civil war. However, it's particular use may remain a mystery until someone finds documentation. It could also be affiliated with Militia; and from any of several countries. One thing for sure; it's a cool find! Good hunting, David@Dixie
PS: Thanks to Pete for his excellent research....he's good at that