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If I were to buy a CZ for slow motion hunting

M

Mike Hillis

Well-known member
Do they work well when you want to go really slow???

Which one should I get?

The 5?

The 70pro?

or the 3d?

I don't have a slowwww mooootioonnnn machine. Thought about a minelab but the quality issues make me blink :blink:

Thanks,

Mike
 
with a full lifetime warranty is the CZ-3D, unless you can find an old stock CZ5 or CZ70 Pro.

Yes, they work well when hunting slow. In fact, that's the preferred speed with the CZ's.

Which one should you get? The CZ5 is an excellent machine, as is the CZ70 Pro. I prefer the CZ-3D myself. Now before we hear about the 1950 sites, wider target segments and more trash items reading good, let's looks at it a little closer.

The CZ-3D does have the new fourth tone for foil. The great thing about that is that a lot of small gold jewelry falls into the foil range. If you are jewelry hunting, you can specifically listen for that tone without having to constantly look at the meter.

The target segments weren't made wider, as some think, but were enhanced to accept many good targets that were falling into lower target ranges. I might suggest you read Thomas Dankowski's write-up on the CZ-3D with the following link:

http://www.fisherlab.com/fisherbeta/intel/fishintel.pdf

Yes, the CZ-3D was designed primarily for finding older, deeper, coins from earlier sites. The best sites for using the new, enhanced, mode date from 1950, and earlier, however you still can hunt newer sites, and those older sites that are still in use, by using the Salt mode. The CZ-3D will then act the exact same as the CZ5 does when it is in Salt mode with the exception of having a new, fourth, tone. Some will say you will loose depth. That is true only to the extent of very small gold items, and women's thin gold bands, although the loss is very slight. Coin sized objects will still be found at typical CZ depths.

You can read more hints & tips on using the CZ-3D, along with all of Tom Dankowski's articles at http://www.TheTreasureLeague.com site. Just click on the Hints & Tips page, and follow the various links.

All CZ's, as well as all other metal detectors, require some learning curve. I can assure you that if you take the time to learn them, the CZ's are a formidable opponent for any brand, or model, out there.

Hope this helps,

OldeTymer
TheTreasureLeague.com
 
Thanks for the information OldeTymer:thumbup:

But I guess the next logical question is how slow is slow. Can I crawl the coil at say 1' per three seconds or would that be too slow?

If I was to try to get a feel of how slow you can go with a CZ, what would be the best descriptor?

Thanks,

Mike
 
Three seconds for one foot seems a bit slow, but I do hunt real slow in iron infested ghost towns. I don't use a standard sweep there like I would in a park setting. Many times I'm just barely crawling along in amongst all the iron signals. The same goes for high trash areas in a park, or other similar locations.

I think when working a regular pattern search that a reasonable sweep over a four foot arc would be about one foot per second. I probably hunt a little faster than that. I don't know how slow you could hunt, and still expect to get maximum performance. There is some happy medium, but I can't say for certain what it is. As you know, it's hard to describe. It's more of a "feeling" at the site from the feedback of trash and good targets combined with the physical conditions.

I try to hunt about as slow as I did with my Sovereign XS, and that's a real slow hunter.

Hope this makes some sense.

OldeTymer
TheTreasureLeague.com
 
>The target segments weren't made wider, as some think, but were >enhanced to accept many good targets that were falling into lower >target ranges. I might suggest you read Thomas Dankowski's write-up >on the CZ-3D with the following link:

I disagree with that statement. State what you mean by enhanced? The notches were made wider there's no way around that reasoning. If it was truely 'enhanced' you wouldn't be digging more trash. Don't get me wrong, I am a 3D user and think it's a great machine but the PR guys at Fisher can call it whatever they want... but it's wider notches. End of story.

-Bill
 
Lay a silver dime on a flat piece of ground..And try different swings until you find one that gets the best depth. Sure its only ballpark but after a while you will get the rythm..Years ago I was hunting one of those long days and had nothing and near the end of the day I got tired and my swing slowed down and in no time time had 3 deep silver, so I learned the hard way..
As far as which one any CZ is a good one and its your choice analog or digital and lots of good used ones on the market. As far as the CZ3D I see where Fisher is coming from but not my cup of tea and we don't want to beat a dead horse to death..
 
Please read the Fisher Intelligence report by Mr. Dankowski. Especially read the sections on the CZ-3D very carefully. Sometimes you have to read something more than once to gain the knowledge therein. Things like:

"The largest attribute of any CZ are the tones - and since we detect nearly exclusively by the audio tones, this is also where the CZ-3D accelerates. Just a few simplistic audio tones keeps this unit free from
 
Heck stands to reason if different targets come in different segments the width is surely changed whether it be larger or shorter as the case may be..Many ways to explain and surely enhanced to Fisher spec's for needed changes in a new edition of the CZ...
 
Many detectors will report high conductors lower as the depth or mineralization increases. So a high tone coins drops down into the next tone category. I find the CS to do the oposite, raising the id. Perhaps the 3D is tuned the same way? Rather than dropping id, it somehow raises it?

Just thinking.

Mike

:detecting:
 
Thanks Olde Tymer,

I'll spend some researching time on the 3D.

Mike
 
SO why do you STILL dig more trash if the 3D is enhanced and not wider notches? I own a 3D a really like it. But, I think they have one heck of a good voodoo guy in the marketing dept.

-Bill
 
I think the reason for digging more trash targets in the enhanced mode is that certain targets, with a particular electronic signature, have been programmed to report a high tone that, in the past for whatever reason, used to report a lower tone, and still do in the Salt mode, and normal mode in other CZ's. Those same targets also report that same lower tone on a regular CZ without the enhanced mode. Unfortunately, there are certain trash targets, especially various sized pieces of aluminum, that have that same electronic signature as those good targets, that also get reported as that same high tone in the enhanced mode, as compared to their lower tone in either the Salt, or normal modes.

That is the reason that it is suggested to turn off the enhanced mode when hunting in locations that are likely to have those trash targets, since they will be reporting a high tone. With the Salt mode, those targets will report the "normal" tone assigned to them. Unfortunately, so will some of those same, older good targets that currently report that same tone as those trash targets because of their identical electronic signature.

Those good targets are there now, reporting those lower tones all along, just as the trash targets are doing. The difference is that with the other CZ's, we tend to ignore those "trash" tones leaving not only those trash targets in the ground, but also leaving those older good targets along with them, because they have that same electronic signature. We don't know that we missed them, because we didn't even know they were there.

For these reasons, I believe Tom Dankowski when he says that the target segment ranges weren't increased. The targets we have been finding with the CZ5 haven't changed. They continue to report where they have all along. It's the certain, older coins that have had their electronic signature added to the high tone, right along with certain, identical electronic signature trash items that has changed.

In newer areas, use the Salt mode and get generally the same performance as a CZ5 does in the Salt mode. Remember, the Salt mode only slightly decreases the sensitivity, and depth, on very small gold items, and small ladies gold bands. Coin sized targets, and larger, will still come in as if you were running a CZ5 in the normal mode. The CZ20 is locked in the Salt mode, and users have always reported the excellent depth they get both in the water, and on the land.

I think you can also use the new, enhanced mode in the newer areas if you are selective in your search, and target recovery procedures. I think a much slower search in those newer trash infested locations is required, along with careful attention to the signal characteristics of the target as well as the depth of the target. I think that you would probably not want to dig high tone targets that were at, or near, the same depth as the local aluminum trash targets are. I would look for targets that give a high tone, and have depth that is greater than the general trash layer at that location. I would probably go over the area in the Salt mode first, recovering the shallower "good" targets in a normal way. Then go over the same area using the above criteria.

I really don't think it is a marketing ploy. I really believe Fisher has hit on something that, unfortunately a lot of users are having a hard time accepting.

This is just my thoughts on the subject after thinking long, and hard about it. It doesn't mean I'm right, and someone else is wrong. What works for me, may not work for anyone else. Again, my hunting, my sites and my soil conditions.

I hope this helps to explain how I feel about it.

Good hunting,

OldeTymer
TheTreasureLeague.com
 
I agree either opinion isn't right or wrong. The only ones that could honestly answer it say it isn't wider notches. Then, there are some of us that think Fisher could have saved research money and done the same thing by making wide notches... :heh: Thanks for you thoughts.

-Bill
 
OldeTymer,
You have done well Daniel-son. (Picture Mr. Miagi) :lol: I couldn't have said it better. You have definitely studied NASA Tom's writings and your own experiences have duplicated what he said, as have mine. There quite a few 3D bashers out there and I don't understand why. There is more going on here than widened notches. My 3D fits my hunting style well and I will not part with it.

I recently bought an Xterra 50 and only have 4-5 hrs on it. I don't feel comfortable with it that's for sure. Does that make it a bad machine? NO, it just makes it different and it may not mesh with my style of hunting, that's all. I'm going to give it a little more time before I sell it. I may learn to like it as well.
 
If they would have made wider "notches", then more trash targets would read as a good target, and the older coins that currently read as a high tone would still read where they do now on regular CZ's, or in the Salt mode.

That's the beauty of the 3D, in the enhanced mode, the trash targets that don't have the same electronic signature as the older, good, targets still read lower, where they have all along.

The new programming brings those older good targets into the high tone. The bad side of that is that some of the trash that has that same signature, reads high as well. I'm willing to put up with that to get those older coins that I miss with other CZ's.

Thanks for following along with my explanation. I know it's been a lengthy process, but that's the best that I can explain my understanding of how it works.

Good hunting Bill,

OldeTymer
TheTreasureLeague.com
 
Dave,

You know I am not a 3D basher... :inlove: But, the definition between enhanced and wider notching is somewhat mucky... :blink: That was my only point.

-Bill
 
It realy doesn't matter to me which way it is... the 3D works well for me too... :)

-Bill
 
At first I thought the same thing as Bill, and Dan, about how the 3D had been changed. It took me quite awhile to really understand what Tom Dankowski had done. Really amazing stuff when you think about it.

Good hunting,

OldeTymer
TheTreasureLeague.com
 
and almost included in the post that you were not. :lol:
 
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