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Iron Falsing
- Thread starter bill67
- Start date
Iron falsing or high tone chirps generally happens when the coil is off center to one side of a
nail(s), this is not unique to the Explorer series, other detectors do this as well.
In order to understand this, the term wrap-around needs to be understood.
Mentally picture and think of the screen as a circle with the left and right side of the screen
folded to where they are touching.
Now when one encounters a high tone chirp, many times the cursor will bounce or dance
from one side of the screen to the other.
Only with experience and knowing how the cursor bounces, along with audio cues can someone
get a better handle on how to handle these events.
You can think of the left side of the screen in terms of a less percentage of being a good find,
the further left, the less likely a good find.
Mind you I have dug good stuff with lousy or no cursor movement that would portray a good signal,
only listening to the audio so the above is generalized.
BTW, I still dig a few nails per hunt, just not as many as when I first started learning this detector.
Most of the nails that I dig now are bent or has a glob of iron on them.
Sometimes I get fooled by small iron wire too.
If you don't want to dig nails, go for solid audio and better cursor readings, that should cure not
having to dig nails.
nail(s), this is not unique to the Explorer series, other detectors do this as well.
In order to understand this, the term wrap-around needs to be understood.
Mentally picture and think of the screen as a circle with the left and right side of the screen
folded to where they are touching.
Now when one encounters a high tone chirp, many times the cursor will bounce or dance
from one side of the screen to the other.
Only with experience and knowing how the cursor bounces, along with audio cues can someone
get a better handle on how to handle these events.
You can think of the left side of the screen in terms of a less percentage of being a good find,
the further left, the less likely a good find.
Mind you I have dug good stuff with lousy or no cursor movement that would portray a good signal,
only listening to the audio so the above is generalized.
BTW, I still dig a few nails per hunt, just not as many as when I first started learning this detector.
Most of the nails that I dig now are bent or has a glob of iron on them.
Sometimes I get fooled by small iron wire too.
If you don't want to dig nails, go for solid audio and better cursor readings, that should cure not
having to dig nails.
Thanks Steve.....
I understand some of what you are saying...... remember I'm new at this ( and dense )....
.
So can it be iron falsing when the cursor is stuck in the top right corner and sounds good - yes or no
and can it be iron falsing when the cursor is stuck in the top left hand side and sounds good - yes or no ....... no jumping cursor on either of these situations just pegged in one spot.....Does that make sense .....
I understand some of what you are saying...... remember I'm new at this ( and dense )....
. So can it be iron falsing when the cursor is stuck in the top right corner and sounds good - yes or no
and can it be iron falsing when the cursor is stuck in the top left hand side and sounds good - yes or no ....... no jumping cursor on either of these situations just pegged in one spot.....Does that make sense .....
I suppose by "stuck" you mean it is stays in one place.
Top right falsing usually means hot rocks and since I don't have them in
my area so I am not familiar with them.
There may be an occasion where large iron could give a reading upper right.
Top left, if you are using conduct sounds and have a portion of the left screen
blocked by iron mask, you shouldn't hear it.
If you are using no disc and conduct sounds, there will be a lot of iron that causes
the cursor to land in the top left and it will sound good, the key here is if it stays top
left, it will likely be iron-mainly nails.
Most people who use conduct sounds use at least a small amount of iron mask thus
those "good sounding tones" are not heard.
If you are using ferrous sounds with a clear screen, all top left cursor readings will give the lowest tone of
the scale.
The key to learning Explorer is in the audio, make sure you know what desirable stuff
sounds like verses iron and junk.
Make sure signals repeat, make sure pinpoint mode fairly much agrees with the center of standard mode.
Size up your target with pinpoint by approaching from the 4 sides, this will give an approx of size between
coin sized objects and very large objects.
Consult the depth meter to determine depth and how it agrees/disagrees with the audio quality.
As with any detector, you can lift your coil, say a knee high and if you are still getting a strong
signal, it will likely be a large item.
When you encounter what you think is a good signal, slow down your sweep speed and narrow it
right over the target to see how it sounds and consult screen.
But don't be afraid to take chances and dig, you will likely learn more by making mental notes
before you dig and then if it is iron or junk, you are more likely remember it better.
Hope this helps.
HH
Top right falsing usually means hot rocks and since I don't have them in
my area so I am not familiar with them.
There may be an occasion where large iron could give a reading upper right.
Top left, if you are using conduct sounds and have a portion of the left screen
blocked by iron mask, you shouldn't hear it.
If you are using no disc and conduct sounds, there will be a lot of iron that causes
the cursor to land in the top left and it will sound good, the key here is if it stays top
left, it will likely be iron-mainly nails.
Most people who use conduct sounds use at least a small amount of iron mask thus
those "good sounding tones" are not heard.
If you are using ferrous sounds with a clear screen, all top left cursor readings will give the lowest tone of
the scale.
The key to learning Explorer is in the audio, make sure you know what desirable stuff
sounds like verses iron and junk.
Make sure signals repeat, make sure pinpoint mode fairly much agrees with the center of standard mode.
Size up your target with pinpoint by approaching from the 4 sides, this will give an approx of size between
coin sized objects and very large objects.
Consult the depth meter to determine depth and how it agrees/disagrees with the audio quality.
As with any detector, you can lift your coil, say a knee high and if you are still getting a strong
signal, it will likely be a large item.
When you encounter what you think is a good signal, slow down your sweep speed and narrow it
right over the target to see how it sounds and consult screen.
But don't be afraid to take chances and dig, you will likely learn more by making mental notes
before you dig and then if it is iron or junk, you are more likely remember it better.
Hope this helps.
HH
OK Steve ... I'm starting to see a little day light from the wisdom you are sharing and I really appreciate it.....
... . Now, what do you mean when you say ... "Make sure pinpoint mode fairly much agrees with the center of standard mode."..... I don't have clue what you mean by that ...... sorry I told you I was dense.....
... . Now, what do you mean when you say ... "Make sure pinpoint mode fairly much agrees with the center of standard mode."..... I don't have clue what you mean by that ...... sorry I told you I was dense.....Whenever you get a signal that you want to further investigate first lift the coil
up some and make an "X" over the target to try to get an approx. center where
the signal is the strongest. This is in standard disc mode.
Then toggle to pinpoint mode and place the coil roughly to the left side of the target
making a note of where you first hear the signal with the approaching side of the middle strip.
Do this also at 90, 180, 270.
This should give you the center of the target and somewhat provide an estimate of target size.
Now since the magnetic field is being created is actually bigger than the size of the object,
allow for a coin sized object to be bigger than the actual size, of course depth will affect
how large the area will be, the deeper, the smaller the area.
So a much larger sized object, such as a alum can or large iron piece will look really large
in comparison.
If the pinpoint is way off center from the Xing and it is determined to be something not large
then more than likely it is nails falsing.
This is only one technique that can be used to pinpoint an object in the ground, I recommend
you get Andy's books for other methods.
These replies were meant so that it can be determined if you are dealing with an iron false or if
it is indeed a non-ferrous item, not so much a sure good signal.
One last note, the above is not meant to cover every situation but to hopefully help you until
you get better acquainted with your detector so you can make you own decisions on what to
dig and what to pass, remember the audio and learning it takes priority over everything else.
In other words, audio trumps and is the "high card".
(What is written below is not intended to anyone in particular.)
One thing I would like to add at this point is some catch on to using the Explorer fairly fast but
some take longer to figure stuff out.
Some may not mind putting in the time to learn it well while others may not.
When I first got my Explorer, I took it out a few times and I remember well that I was getting
really frustrated with what was going on.
To add injury to insult, I happened to throw down a dime on the ground and since I had my
old detector with me, I scanned it and it responded as it should then when I scanned with
the Explorer and what?, no signal, I was ready to wrap the detector around a tree.
On one of the next trips to the same spot, I figured out that there was a hugh iron plate
directly under the ground that the Explorer was seeing that the other detector wasn't.
As I used the Explorer, I learned as I went with no internet to help me and without
any Explorer users around.
Through the years, I have made a lot of finds with it that I now look on with many
fond memories and still doing it.
So here's my point, it can be mastered if one is determined to get the most
he can get out of it.
I had invested my money in this detector and since I didn't want to waste my
investment, I buckled down and dug and dug, haha, a lot of trash and good
stuff too but it was a learning process and I built my knowledge by
trial and error and every trip was/is something new to be learned.
So the same for all who grab the Explorer and dream of those deep
(and some not so deep) silver and copper coins, tokens, jewelry and/or relics that out there
waiting to be found.
So I hope this will be an inspiration and not only from me but look at what others are finding
with their Explorers, it can be learned, everyone who is struggling right now with their Explorer,
others learned it, so can you.
up some and make an "X" over the target to try to get an approx. center where
the signal is the strongest. This is in standard disc mode.
Then toggle to pinpoint mode and place the coil roughly to the left side of the target
making a note of where you first hear the signal with the approaching side of the middle strip.
Do this also at 90, 180, 270.
This should give you the center of the target and somewhat provide an estimate of target size.
Now since the magnetic field is being created is actually bigger than the size of the object,
allow for a coin sized object to be bigger than the actual size, of course depth will affect
how large the area will be, the deeper, the smaller the area.
So a much larger sized object, such as a alum can or large iron piece will look really large
in comparison.
If the pinpoint is way off center from the Xing and it is determined to be something not large
then more than likely it is nails falsing.
This is only one technique that can be used to pinpoint an object in the ground, I recommend
you get Andy's books for other methods.
These replies were meant so that it can be determined if you are dealing with an iron false or if
it is indeed a non-ferrous item, not so much a sure good signal.
One last note, the above is not meant to cover every situation but to hopefully help you until
you get better acquainted with your detector so you can make you own decisions on what to
dig and what to pass, remember the audio and learning it takes priority over everything else.
In other words, audio trumps and is the "high card".
(What is written below is not intended to anyone in particular.)
One thing I would like to add at this point is some catch on to using the Explorer fairly fast but
some take longer to figure stuff out.
Some may not mind putting in the time to learn it well while others may not.
When I first got my Explorer, I took it out a few times and I remember well that I was getting
really frustrated with what was going on.
To add injury to insult, I happened to throw down a dime on the ground and since I had my
old detector with me, I scanned it and it responded as it should then when I scanned with
the Explorer and what?, no signal, I was ready to wrap the detector around a tree.
On one of the next trips to the same spot, I figured out that there was a hugh iron plate
directly under the ground that the Explorer was seeing that the other detector wasn't.
As I used the Explorer, I learned as I went with no internet to help me and without
any Explorer users around.
Through the years, I have made a lot of finds with it that I now look on with many
fond memories and still doing it.
So here's my point, it can be mastered if one is determined to get the most
he can get out of it.
I had invested my money in this detector and since I didn't want to waste my
investment, I buckled down and dug and dug, haha, a lot of trash and good
stuff too but it was a learning process and I built my knowledge by
trial and error and every trip was/is something new to be learned.
So the same for all who grab the Explorer and dream of those deep
(and some not so deep) silver and copper coins, tokens, jewelry and/or relics that out there
waiting to be found.
So I hope this will be an inspiration and not only from me but look at what others are finding
with their Explorers, it can be learned, everyone who is struggling right now with their Explorer,
others learned it, so can you.
Thanks Steve ..... I really appreciate your help...... I have read tons of posts and Sabisch's books till my brains have turned to Jello..
.. I've tried different programs and I've dug mostly trash on my outings..... I understand enough about detecting that I'm not expecting unrealistic outcomes....... It just hasn't seemed to click for me yet....... But I am determined to put all the pieces together..... You have helped me a lot . I'll definitely put in to practice what you have shared ....... Bill
.. I've tried different programs and I've dug mostly trash on my outings..... I understand enough about detecting that I'm not expecting unrealistic outcomes....... It just hasn't seemed to click for me yet....... But I am determined to put all the pieces together..... You have helped me a lot . I'll definitely put in to practice what you have shared ....... BillFor now do this, if you get an iffy, turn 90 degrees and rescan.
If the signal disappears then don't dig.
Watch you depth meter, the more shallow, trust your cursor
position more.
You will miss some marginals doing this but it should help cut
down on how many nails you dig.
I assume you are mostly having trouble with nails when you stated
you were digging trash.
Nails most of the time give a very high monotone sound unlike coins
that have a warble, some even call it a gobble type sound.
Nails sometimes have warble tones but most of the time the tones are
disconnected, not a "tight" sounding warble.
Another key if you use audible threshold is there is a longer silence between
the threshold dropout and the start and end of the warble.
After you get more experience and confidence, go for some of those iffies
and learn as you dig.
HH
If the signal disappears then don't dig.
Watch you depth meter, the more shallow, trust your cursor
position more.
You will miss some marginals doing this but it should help cut
down on how many nails you dig.
I assume you are mostly having trouble with nails when you stated
you were digging trash.
Nails most of the time give a very high monotone sound unlike coins
that have a warble, some even call it a gobble type sound.
Nails sometimes have warble tones but most of the time the tones are
disconnected, not a "tight" sounding warble.
Another key if you use audible threshold is there is a longer silence between
the threshold dropout and the start and end of the warble.
After you get more experience and confidence, go for some of those iffies
and learn as you dig.
HH
capri_auto
New member
If you suspect falsing, go into pinpoint and pinpoint the target. Then go back to the smart screen when you are centered over the target and check it again from multiple directions. Once you pinpoint and get centered you can also check it in ironmask with ironmask turned all the way down to hear it a little better. if still in doubt, dig it.
sgoss66
Well-known member
Folks, I have about 30 minutes of experience with my SE Pro (I need to say that up front!)...and also I have only run it in my yard. BUT, there is a good side to that, and something I think I can share about masking, similar to what capri_auto said above.
I know from using other detectors that "iron falsing" -- i.e. high tones that might otherwise sound a bit like good targets -- will often happen near the edges of an iron target. Multiple iron targets in close proximity sometimes make this worse.
Further, I KNOW of a spot in my yard that has some buried nails (from using other detectors in this spot), and I am almost CERTAIN there are no coins there (my house is built on an old cattle grazing pasture -- with little in the ground over most of the yard except a bit of old rusty iron, along with the nails from our home construction 7 years ago). I ran the detector through my test garden, and over known coins, I was getting numbers like 00-29, 03-28, stuff like that.
Then, I ran through the nails -- with machine set in the factory preset mode. I got lots of nulling, as expected. However, I would at times hear some high tones, with numbers and sounds that sometimes mimic the coin signals I got in my test garden -- low ferrous, high conductivity numbers, with high tones. I even started thinking "maybe there IS a coin or two hidden in these nails." So, I went to pinpoint mode. What I found was, there was NO TARGET there; but, maybe 4-6 inches away, there WAS a target. So, I'd pinpoint the target, and then exit pinpoint mode and go back to normal detecting mode, and move the coil really, really slow -- barely any side to side movement -- over the center of the target, and got NOTHING but nulling. So I went back to where I got the high tones, and they returned to some degree. Pinpointed again, same thing -- no target, it was "off to the side" by several inches. I did this same thing in several other spots on several other targets (which I am almost sure were nails), and where I had this same "falsing" occur. Doing this several times to convince myself, and knowing what I know from using other machines (about how iron often falses near its edges) -- I found a way that at least SOMETIMES, I can decipher falses from truly good targets. Again, PINPOINT, and if your target pinpoints off to the side of your "good tones," and then you re-scan the pinpointed target in normal mode and get nulls, you are experiencing IRON FALSING.
Hope this helps someone.
Steve
I know from using other detectors that "iron falsing" -- i.e. high tones that might otherwise sound a bit like good targets -- will often happen near the edges of an iron target. Multiple iron targets in close proximity sometimes make this worse.
Further, I KNOW of a spot in my yard that has some buried nails (from using other detectors in this spot), and I am almost CERTAIN there are no coins there (my house is built on an old cattle grazing pasture -- with little in the ground over most of the yard except a bit of old rusty iron, along with the nails from our home construction 7 years ago). I ran the detector through my test garden, and over known coins, I was getting numbers like 00-29, 03-28, stuff like that.
Then, I ran through the nails -- with machine set in the factory preset mode. I got lots of nulling, as expected. However, I would at times hear some high tones, with numbers and sounds that sometimes mimic the coin signals I got in my test garden -- low ferrous, high conductivity numbers, with high tones. I even started thinking "maybe there IS a coin or two hidden in these nails." So, I went to pinpoint mode. What I found was, there was NO TARGET there; but, maybe 4-6 inches away, there WAS a target. So, I'd pinpoint the target, and then exit pinpoint mode and go back to normal detecting mode, and move the coil really, really slow -- barely any side to side movement -- over the center of the target, and got NOTHING but nulling. So I went back to where I got the high tones, and they returned to some degree. Pinpointed again, same thing -- no target, it was "off to the side" by several inches. I did this same thing in several other spots on several other targets (which I am almost sure were nails), and where I had this same "falsing" occur. Doing this several times to convince myself, and knowing what I know from using other machines (about how iron often falses near its edges) -- I found a way that at least SOMETIMES, I can decipher falses from truly good targets. Again, PINPOINT, and if your target pinpoints off to the side of your "good tones," and then you re-scan the pinpointed target in normal mode and get nulls, you are experiencing IRON FALSING.
Hope this helps someone.
Steve