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Just read Andy's book and I gotta question...

That would be a definite, nodda! A null is a null. They should put that word in the dictionary with the definition: A moment where your detector is worthless....Whites, Minelab, Fischer or other:rofl: In all fairness, I have found items with my Etrac that I missed with my SE, in fact, I actually figured out how and why just the other day, I am going to post it on this and the ETrac forums, I am sure it is going to make me even more so ever popular.
 
Digitrich,,,,,,,,,,,,,if the detector is in null .your right its worthless.but if your getting iron tones ,and sharp high pitch .isnt that better than a null.?......im just wondering .i have only been doing this like a year.
 
Forum ............. I need to retract what i Said about AndyS book ...If i had thought about what he said in it .i might be alittle wiser ...........In HIs book regarding the all metal mode .I said he Said that those persons were ignorant, if you continue to read ,, he will tell you why hunting in patterns will save uneeded digs and time .............I Apologize to Andy............... David
 
for answering my question. I have been able in very saturaded iron and black sand ground to get a good target sound in the middle of what I call null. That is when I am getting the really low pitch sound almost like a deep hum in Conduct and a pronounced change in sound with a good target next to iorn while in Ferrous and running the Iron setting wide open. This is With my ExII. It sounds like the E trac is not able to "gain" sound appreciation on a good target while hearing the iron. Is that your take?
 
If you use your ears versus the fancy programming....my bet is your brain will beat that minute circuit board any day even if you were a half deaf idiot. No amount of programming will ever overtake your brains ability to do calculations or it's reaction speed. Instead of manufactures spending time and money on fancy programming to do "your" work for you, they should use that money and time creating machines that give you more accurate ID'ing, faster response time, and greater depth. Increasing it's raw power would be the best place to start. The truth is, every now and again, you might find a target using the machines discrimination capabilities that you wouldn't have found in all metal, but you will more than double your finds using all metal in the first place. First, I hunt sites in all metal and then I discriminate common, repeating or annoying trash, not the other way around. I find I dig less trash in all metal because ALL of the machines I own, 2 SE's, Etrac, F-75, DFX, Excalibur ALL false large iron and flat rusted iron nails high when I use discrimination. This is not just a Minelab problem, it happens with every machine I own. If you can ignore the low grunting iron in all metal and pick out the tiny hints of a good target, you can go anywhere in the world and dig good targets in areas that others have pounded to death. Keep it up, it's your advantage, use it, and enjoy it. Many can not deal with the constant noise. Me, I have gotten to the point that I don't even hear it, would bother me if it wasn't present.:detecting::thumbup:
 
I DISAGREEEEEEE about the null!!!!!! I pulled 10 wheats 1 indian,, and a old bus token 4 days ago,,, and my detector never stoped NULLING!!!! I pulled a 1838 half dime last week while nulling!!!!! you just have to go slow,,, ans listen,,, Those coins will sound right through the null!!! Look at Bryce's coin collection, dead proof!!!!!
 
It's my opinion that the SE gives a much more accurate and better quality tone than the ETrac. There was something majorly changed between the two. The problem is my ear on my SE is used to picking out subtle and fine tonal differences out in the tones on the SE. The Etrac tones are scratchy and jumpy in comparison. I can tell with much certainty the depth and size of my targets with my SE and I can't with the Etrac. However, I have only a few hundred hours on the Etrac and thousands on the SE. But honestly, I am still not sure I have a properly working Etrac, many guys I respect, who are not Minelab dealers or groupies and were quite capable with their Explorers found enough improvements with their new Etracs to sell their Explorers:surprised:. That's why I still plug away equal time with my Etrac even though I feel like I am giving up finds doing it.
 
I hunt pretty much the same way but I thought mabey the e trac was operating a little differenty than My machine. I go almost completey by sound as I cant hardley even see the resilution of the LED screen any way especially if I have a cover on it, unless I pick it up and hold it close to my face. Its all about the sounds for me. I appreciate your take as I have not had a chance to try the E trac and am looking for good info on the E trac. Thanks.
 
Just currios. You been kickin it with your finds where ever the heck youve been hunting. I also get tones of nulling and still look to here the tone peak up high in the middle of it as its usually a good target hiddin by the iorn junk thats been past over by others. I orderd the 10x12 SEF and Ill probably get the new 6x8 sef but Ill be hangin on to my older EX II till I get a good reason to buy a newer machine.
 
Now try the same spot in all metal, then try it an all metal with audio long on. I'll bet you money you will find stuff that was missed in the nulling. Use a smaller coil and then try it with a larger coil, yes in the trash, a larger coil and you will find stuff that the shallow iron and trash was masking. Then try it in manual sensitivity with the detector running hot and only dig what sounds clean and solid ignoring anything that sounds broken or scratchy. Then turn your sensitivity down to 10 or 12 in manual and try it again, yes that low, and you will find stuff that the deep iron was masking. There is no "right way" or "wrong way". Whatever works. It's not a my way, your way or his way....they all work in different situations...however, the more information you have to make a decision the better a decision you can make. If you find stuff detecting a specific way does not make that specific way better or worse than any other, which is my point. Where is the all metal way in the book?? Where should we noise cancel on the ground or in the air and why? If you are in all metal and you are in auto sensitivity, why wouldn't you run auto sensitivity at 32, after all the machine is supposed to settle on the highest setting that doesn't false, right? What's with the bloody mystery, why can't I get these questions answered?? The only wrong way to use a metal detector is to use it one way all the time and if you are only using discrimination and hoping the machine still hits the stuff in between the nulls, you are leaving stuff behind. All I am saying is that if I were to have to err to one side or the other, I would go all metal because I find more stuff that way then when I use discrimination. Every spot I have ever detected with discrimination, I have gone back over in all metal and found stuff I otherwise would not. I am talking in the hundreds of targets, where as areas I hit in all metal and came back over using discrimination, I have found fewer than ten in comparison, that is a HUGE difference. That might have something to do with my ability to pick stuff out in the tones, but when I first started using my SE, I hunted with discrimination and found nothing very deep or very old, then in all metal I found deep old coins in those same sites. Just because some one finds stuff on this forum hunting a specific way doesn't make it better than others, don't limit yourself, in either case.
 
If you don't have the ML Pro coil yet, get one. Makes a world of difference. My SE's during the thaw, false horribly while there is still some ice in the ground. With the new Pro coil, I could run them at manual 32 with no falsing what so ever. Couldn't even manage that with a 5 inch coil on the same day, never mind any of my larger coils. The only coil that would allow that was my ML PRO's. You can look up mine and others discussion on that frost falsing we got early last spring.
 
Chris, do you have the small 3x5 coil for your F-75? I used mine in a very dense trash area that I pounded with the SE and pulled some nice finds, all at about 6 inches deep, which was impressive to me. Most were buttons, bras and nickel, almost like the explorer had an affinity for copper and silver and the F75 brass and nickel, especially brass.
 
During a 'Null"..I dont think the detector can detect anything. Almost like a temporary off switch. Its all about the quick recovery from that null that picks up the nearby 'wanted' target. Am I missing something?..Thats my impression of the null, but I can be wrong..Lets figure this thing out!! HH all
 
I feel all depends on the area you are hunting and your wants and needs..Personally run a low threshold and Fast in junky areas and Deep for those old areas with moderate junk. I feel experimenting with an old test garden or perhaps even what you feel is a good deep coin or perhaps a good signal with junk next to a keeper will make you a better Explorer user..

Believe me your Explorer has various settings which alter its performance and some experimenting for your area will go a long way...I like to use minor discrimnation to hear it all even though it may be a tad noisy but thats your call...
 
Gott to agree with you on that one Digit. I read Andys first book also,and I even tried some of his "pattern' suggestions and found clad ONLY. Went back in all metal,(ferrous for me) after many MONTHs of practice and cleaned up!!. The difference, for me, was huge..Bottom line,for me at least, is I try to hunt with 0 disc. whenever possible. Sometimes it is very tough in trash, but if I can, its the only way I will hunt. I then picked up Andys 2nd book , and it seemed he was pushing the disc, pattern thing all over again. Im not tryin to bash anyone here, but I was hoping to get some info for 'both sides of the coin'.I know there are a bunch of pros on here who kck ass with some disc., But I didnt fair as well. And trust me, I would much rather hear less crap and dig mor goodies if I could..But till that day comes..I stand by my guns!!..Happy Hunting to all!!:starwars:
 
Well .Im with Frase, Itry to hear all ,,,and use as least disc. as i can . Lets face it .the less disc. the more you will hear . This giving you the option to dig or not.I can see if your in a silver rich envirment and only want silver coins and no pennies .then use disc. . myself i use very little or none , Hopfuly this post wont get me roasted like the one last night. But for me no disc.provides better and more good finds.
 
I'm not one to argue or say anything against some ones opinion,,, But I'm telling you,,, If you go slow those coins will sound through the null,,, I keep my iron mask at 22,,, I used to think the detector was worthless during the null,,, Actually if i was detecting and came up in a are where the detector would null i would just walk away or go around... These last couple of months i have been paying special close attention to these areas,.. and i have success!! I haven't pulled any 10 12 inch coins in these iron infested areas,,., Put i have pulled a hand full of copper and silver coins, anywhere from 2-6 inches!!!! I don't want to argue with anyone,, or make anyone mad,, I'm just saying i have done it!
Derrell
 
Thank you for applying a voice of reason to yet another uprising of the AM bashing of Andy Sabisch. Why some of the posters continually feel the need to slam a book that is a wealth of information to anyone who uses an Explorer or Etrac is beyond me. To the guys who claim that Andy has called AM hunters ignorant, give me a break. READ THE BOOK. How many different times does he state very clearly that ultimately you as the operator must determine what works best for you? Get it? To my eye he advocates using the pattern ability of the machines to your advantage. Nothing wrong with that. As opposed to many of the Sabisch-bashers who have posted in this thread who fervently advocate the concept "Give me AM or give me death." How about taking a look in the mirror?

The point to made here is that no one should take it upon themselves to tell anyone else how they MUST hunt with a metal detector. Andy Sabisch's book is a self-help book. Use what you need, ignore what you disagree with. Simple as that. And unless I have missed something, none of the holier than thou AM posters here have written anything except long-winded diatribes. If you believe that you've got a way to hunt that others could benefit from then write a book. Have the personal integrity and guts to put your ideas in print instead of just trying to bring down someone else by gutless forum postings. It's worthless hot air like many of you have spewed in this thread that drive many away from forums like this. That's a shame because the honest exchange of information and the sharing of finds is what I think a forum should be all about.

Just my opinion. If it doesn't suit you, go ahead and bash me, too. I really could care less.

Bill
 
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