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long range metal detectors
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Why am I picturing men of somewhat advanced age standing at a David Blaine show and getting angry with him? 
A couple of you are REALLY concerned with some others beliefs in things unseen. What if it IS possible would be the more interesting topic. Modern society is in love with science as if it is their religion. Wouldn't it be an interesting novel or movie where all things thought to be scientifically proven were wrong? Base 10 number completely incorrect (regardless of all of us having 10 fingers LOL) .... atomic structure (which has as many exceptions as rules) totally wrong.... God actually does exist... the earth actually IS round (OK that one already happened).
As to electric dowsing ... Caveat emptor is the best advice someone's given here. At least it wasn't dismissive ...just cautionary.
What we need in this community is ground penetrating radar on a stick powered by 9volts. Lets start a capital investment fund for the R&D!!
A couple of you are REALLY concerned with some others beliefs in things unseen. What if it IS possible would be the more interesting topic. Modern society is in love with science as if it is their religion. Wouldn't it be an interesting novel or movie where all things thought to be scientifically proven were wrong? Base 10 number completely incorrect (regardless of all of us having 10 fingers LOL) .... atomic structure (which has as many exceptions as rules) totally wrong.... God actually does exist... the earth actually IS round (OK that one already happened).
As to electric dowsing ... Caveat emptor is the best advice someone's given here. At least it wasn't dismissive ...just cautionary.
What we need in this community is ground penetrating radar on a stick powered by 9volts. Lets start a capital investment fund for the R&D!!
Shambler, what do you mean ".... unseen"? Sounds like that admits it's not verifiable scientifically, eh? I mean, an admission that it borders on the mystical and not scientific? Nice going 
The trouble with your "open your mind and give it a try .... afterall, 'science' can be proved wrong" mantra, is that it self-implodes. It can be used to justify anything, no matter how improbable and absurd. For example: If I tell you that a tennis shoe covered with peanut butter and birdseed can be used as a treasure locator (simply throw it in the air, and wherever it points when it lands, is pointing to treasure), you would call that silly and un-founded, right? But WHY? I could simply rely on everything you've said in your post, to prop up the *possibility* that it *might* be true, and thus we should keep an open mind, right?
The trouble with your "open your mind and give it a try .... afterall, 'science' can be proved wrong" mantra, is that it self-implodes. It can be used to justify anything, no matter how improbable and absurd. For example: If I tell you that a tennis shoe covered with peanut butter and birdseed can be used as a treasure locator (simply throw it in the air, and wherever it points when it lands, is pointing to treasure), you would call that silly and un-founded, right? But WHY? I could simply rely on everything you've said in your post, to prop up the *possibility* that it *might* be true, and thus we should keep an open mind, right?
John(Tx) that post gave me a heck of a laugh!
Tom - Radio waves and air were not known to exist not all that long ago ... right now, the "wonder" is what is the black stuff in space? I was taught it was "nothing", but that doesn't support relativity ...? Unseen doesn't mean mystical...it means, well, unseen. Saying that all things in the universe only exist if it can be sensed by every human is not very scientific at all. It's a huge (and repeated) human mistake to assume that you have it all "figured out". I'm not saying dowsing works but some people are...I wonder if it does. Throwing a shoe in the air covered with peanut butter and bird seed just might work. Let me know how it works out.... although I don't think that one has the history as the other. I can tell you this: "MIGHTY PUTTY" works!!
Tom - Radio waves and air were not known to exist not all that long ago ... right now, the "wonder" is what is the black stuff in space? I was taught it was "nothing", but that doesn't support relativity ...? Unseen doesn't mean mystical...it means, well, unseen. Saying that all things in the universe only exist if it can be sensed by every human is not very scientific at all. It's a huge (and repeated) human mistake to assume that you have it all "figured out". I'm not saying dowsing works but some people are...I wonder if it does. Throwing a shoe in the air covered with peanut butter and bird seed just might work. Let me know how it works out.... although I don't think that one has the history as the other. I can tell you this: "MIGHTY PUTTY" works!!
Carl-NC
Active member
Map dowsers are emphatic that their methods work, and that the pendulum must therefore be responding to some unseen and possibly unknown force. They are, of course, wrong, and can be shown wrong using basic scientific testing.
Would you agree? Now, let's reword that slightly...
L-rod dowsers are emphatic that their methods work, and that the L-rods must therefore be responding to some unseen and possibly unknown force. They are, of course, wrong, and can be shown wrong using basic scientific testing.
There is no difference between map dowsing and other dowsing. It can all, quite easily, be shown for what it is: a mind trick. What is impossible, is to convince a dowser -- map or otherwise -- that they are not doing what they think they are doing. In all the people I've tested, who all failed completely and utterly, not a single one wavered even slightly in their belief of dowsing.
- Carl
Would you agree? Now, let's reword that slightly...
L-rod dowsers are emphatic that their methods work, and that the L-rods must therefore be responding to some unseen and possibly unknown force. They are, of course, wrong, and can be shown wrong using basic scientific testing.
There is no difference between map dowsing and other dowsing. It can all, quite easily, be shown for what it is: a mind trick. What is impossible, is to convince a dowser -- map or otherwise -- that they are not doing what they think they are doing. In all the people I've tested, who all failed completely and utterly, not a single one wavered even slightly in their belief of dowsing.
- Carl
Wow did not realize the topic would creat such a stir. Got people talking hope with all that has been said no one is really upset long range detectors well I cant say I know either way never even seen one on that note now that I think of it is the moon really made of cheese cause iv actually never seen it up close either hhmmmmm. lol
Carl-NC
Active member
I think the original question was about the "LRL"-type long range metal detectors, as advertised in treasure magazines. Generally, the term "LRL" is now associated with these magical treasure locators, whereas legitimate methods of geophysics detection is known as "remote sensing".
LRLs do not work. Period. They generally are money-making scams, and prey on peoples belief in dowsing, which also does not work. Yes, it would be tons of fun if someone discovered a magical Z-wave that made for a working LRL, and we all started finding buried gold with ease. That is the marketing of LRLs. But it's fantasy, not reality. People need to know that.
I am constantly contacted by people all over the world -- US, Mexico, Greece, Turkey, Philippines, you name it -- who want to know, "What is the *best* LRL I can buy?" Or, worse, they have just bought a $10,000 LRL and want to know, "How do I make this work?" If people were a little better grounded in RealScience they wouldn't be asking these questions, and I wouldn't have to tell them, "You've just wasted your life's savings."
- Carl
LRLs do not work. Period. They generally are money-making scams, and prey on peoples belief in dowsing, which also does not work. Yes, it would be tons of fun if someone discovered a magical Z-wave that made for a working LRL, and we all started finding buried gold with ease. That is the marketing of LRLs. But it's fantasy, not reality. People need to know that.
I am constantly contacted by people all over the world -- US, Mexico, Greece, Turkey, Philippines, you name it -- who want to know, "What is the *best* LRL I can buy?" Or, worse, they have just bought a $10,000 LRL and want to know, "How do I make this work?" If people were a little better grounded in RealScience they wouldn't be asking these questions, and I wouldn't have to tell them, "You've just wasted your life's savings."
- Carl
shambler, let's break down what you're saying, in small pieces:
"Tom - Radio waves and air were not known to exist not all that long ago ... right now, the "wonder" is what is the black stuff in space? I was taught it was "nothing", but that doesn't support relativity ...? Unseen doesn't mean mystical...it means, well, unseen. Saying that all things in the universe only exist if it can be sensed by every human is not very scientific at all. It's a huge (and repeated) human mistake to assume that you have it all "figured out". "
This can all be reduced to the "un-discovered science" argument, right? Point out things (the round vs flat earth, radio waves, etc... )that got "updated", and PRESTO, anything, not matter how absurd, must be given potential creditibility? Sure! then give my peanut butter covered bird-seed plastered tennis shoes their due credibility. Afterall, "you never know!"
" .... I'm not saying dowsing works but some people are...I wonder if it does. Throwing a shoe in the air covered with peanut butter and bird seed just might work (emphasis mine). Let me know how it works out.... although I don't think that one has the history as the other. I can tell you this: "MIGHTY PUTTY" works!!"
Glad you're being consistent. Most LRL advocates would now have run back to the "it's totally scientifically explainable" retreat by now
"Tom - Radio waves and air were not known to exist not all that long ago ... right now, the "wonder" is what is the black stuff in space? I was taught it was "nothing", but that doesn't support relativity ...? Unseen doesn't mean mystical...it means, well, unseen. Saying that all things in the universe only exist if it can be sensed by every human is not very scientific at all. It's a huge (and repeated) human mistake to assume that you have it all "figured out". "
This can all be reduced to the "un-discovered science" argument, right? Point out things (the round vs flat earth, radio waves, etc... )that got "updated", and PRESTO, anything, not matter how absurd, must be given potential creditibility? Sure! then give my peanut butter covered bird-seed plastered tennis shoes their due credibility. Afterall, "you never know!"
" .... I'm not saying dowsing works but some people are...I wonder if it does. Throwing a shoe in the air covered with peanut butter and bird seed just might work (emphasis mine). Let me know how it works out.... although I don't think that one has the history as the other. I can tell you this: "MIGHTY PUTTY" works!!"
Glad you're being consistent. Most LRL advocates would now have run back to the "it's totally scientifically explainable" retreat by now
If a yellow canary is your treasure, your boot would "kick ass" at finding some (coincidentally, all other conditions would have to be perfect) .....
No one said I was supportive of your version of "LRL's" ... my argument from the beginning is that you can shoot 3Khz into the ground and interpret whats coming back. If you can get that 3Khz to travel though 75 feet of desert rock, well, you just may find something valuable. Notice someone said, how would you know if it was copper or iron. I'm confident he uses a discriminating detector capable of a whopping 10" of ground peneteration and can probably tell what the metal is....
I can find a medium steak at about 75 feet and my dog can do it at about 300 feet. Wonder if something could "smell" gold. Hmmm..... That's actually interesting. You know, now there will be a website with a calculator attached to a shop vac and circuit board that claims to smell gold.... crap.
No one said I was supportive of your version of "LRL's" ... my argument from the beginning is that you can shoot 3Khz into the ground and interpret whats coming back. If you can get that 3Khz to travel though 75 feet of desert rock, well, you just may find something valuable. Notice someone said, how would you know if it was copper or iron. I'm confident he uses a discriminating detector capable of a whopping 10" of ground peneteration and can probably tell what the metal is....
I can find a medium steak at about 75 feet and my dog can do it at about 300 feet. Wonder if something could "smell" gold. Hmmm..... That's actually interesting. You know, now there will be a website with a calculator attached to a shop vac and circuit board that claims to smell gold.... crap.
So Shambler, what is the brand of your LRL? You seem to be defending LRLs in a weird kind of way so do you metal detect or just use an LRL?
You see some actually buy LRLs that are quite expensive then they find out it doesn't work, well... at least if they are not self-deluded.
If someone decides they want an LRL and can afford to totally waste their money, that is fine.
I however would hate to see someone scrape up enough money to get one, thinking it is working technology and find out it is totally a waste of money.
Yeah, I know, people do this everyday but I would think we all are kinda looking out for each other since most of us here use Metal detectors.
The original question was about LRLs that are for sale to the consumer market, not military or industrial type technology.
Almost all consumer products, whether it's a cellphone, auto, radio and yes, even a VLF metal detector has been proven over and over again to actually do what it is intended to do.
There is however no proof whatsoever whether any LRL will work, we are talking about the ones for sale to the general public.
I realize that is an all inclusive statement but we haven't seen anyone step up yet to prove skeptics wrong.
You see some actually buy LRLs that are quite expensive then they find out it doesn't work, well... at least if they are not self-deluded.
If someone decides they want an LRL and can afford to totally waste their money, that is fine.
I however would hate to see someone scrape up enough money to get one, thinking it is working technology and find out it is totally a waste of money.
Yeah, I know, people do this everyday but I would think we all are kinda looking out for each other since most of us here use Metal detectors.
The original question was about LRLs that are for sale to the consumer market, not military or industrial type technology.
Almost all consumer products, whether it's a cellphone, auto, radio and yes, even a VLF metal detector has been proven over and over again to actually do what it is intended to do.
There is however no proof whatsoever whether any LRL will work, we are talking about the ones for sale to the general public.
I realize that is an all inclusive statement but we haven't seen anyone step up yet to prove skeptics wrong.
This is an interesting group. I can specifically say, a "calculator on a bicycle handle" can not detect metal. I can say that I do not support the use of LRL's mentioned. Heck, I can even compare dowsing to exorcisms and so on, and so on. But, for some strange reason, someone still says I support the group of LRL you guys are so worked up about. I even went as far as to make a joke about a gold sniffer that someone may sell on the web using a shop vac and a calculator (if you don't find that funny I can't help - you and I are just different ).[/b]
I'm still laughing at that one... oh manShambler said:
!I'll have to move to a scientific forums to discuss a way to ACTUALLY (READ: not by using telepathy) detect metal afar. I would LOVE a discussion on what just MIGHT work! I guarantee professional mining companies aren't using an ACE250 to find that money making vein.
For the record I own an F75, Explorer II, f4, and an Ace250. None of which can detect past the 12" mark with any consistency (before some angry Fisher lover says it, I know you think I'm too stupid to get more depth...SHEESH, enough already!
). Actually, my F75 does detect long distances, it just happens to be radio signals from miles away. (on these forums that sentence is sure to start a fight 
)
John 'n' W.Va
Active member
A calculator and a radio do make a metal detector.
http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2008/02/diy_metal_detector.html
http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2008/02/diy_metal_detector.html
and try walking slowly over a metal table, it will work. I see what you are saying but the L rods do work over large metal objects, don't know about small metal objects but over large they do work, try it. Map dowsing on the other hand, well, I just don't believe in unseen forces at work. I'd rather use a metal detector myself....HH John
Hey Shambler,
Customs out here in Aussie are training sniffer dogs to locate precious metals.
I can sniff out iron,stainless steel copper and aluminum if it's 2 inches from my honker; Seems that the dogs can sniff out the ions and gases that come of most metals. The dogs have a bit of trouble if the metal is very cold.
Now that will be ammunition for the LRL buffs; Now they will say their gadgets are detecting ions and work really good in hot weather...... aah hang on a minute, that will be no good because then the gadget would have to work for everyone and not just the compatible few hey.
Adrian SS
Customs out here in Aussie are training sniffer dogs to locate precious metals.
I can sniff out iron,stainless steel copper and aluminum if it's 2 inches from my honker; Seems that the dogs can sniff out the ions and gases that come of most metals. The dogs have a bit of trouble if the metal is very cold.
Now that will be ammunition for the LRL buffs; Now they will say their gadgets are detecting ions and work really good in hot weather...... aah hang on a minute, that will be no good because then the gadget would have to work for everyone and not just the compatible few hey.
Adrian SS
Carl, love the forum-it is where I got the most info on a bunch of technical stuff. What is your take on my finding the sewer cleanout at the apartment complex with the ONLY info I had was that it was in front of the building and was only about 6-8" round? It's been on my mind for years-although I don't use dowsing and was really poking fun of it the day I found it.